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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2009 2:40:33 GMT
Hello My sister has made a request for a Christmas gift. She wants a knife. Specifically, she wants a knife to defend against coyotes. Background story: www.cbc.ca/canada/nova-scotia/story/2009/10/28/ns-coyote-attack-died.htmlIn brief, a woman talking a walk in the Cape Breton highland park was killed by 2 coyotes. I am in a position to know some of the unpublished details - I will not divulge them, but let's just say that the attack was horrific. My sister works in the area and was quite shaken by this. Therefore the knife request. now, I already told her that a stout walking stick and a can of bear-spray would be a better first line of defense. But I still think I'm going to buy her a knife. I thought I would ask you guys for suggestions and thoughts on the concept. thanks in advance, Ancalagon P.S. To the many Americans forumites: A gun is not a practical possibility, as this is in Canada and there are other complications.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2009 2:42:41 GMT
How big is she? Fitness, strength? These things are important when choosing the right knife, also is she a park ranger or something? Can she legally carry a knife? Does she know how to use one? Also how much are you looking to spend?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2009 2:49:09 GMT
How big is she? Fitness, strength? These things are important when choosing the right knife, also is she a park ranger or something? Can she legally carry a knife? Does she know how to use one? Also how much are you looking to spend? I'm a Canuck, though not a maritimer, so I can answer the legal stuff--- assuming it's relatively similar to Ontario law. Legally, you can't carry a knife, but being in the country in the maritimes, nobody will care. And my personal suggestion would be the Ka-Bar tanto, around $70, I have one, love it, very durable and good looking and tough. But I'd rather give her a walking stick. If she's really scared, give her the $100 Cold Steel sword cane. Concealed weapon, but available in Canada, and out in the wilderness, nobody will care.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2009 3:16:16 GMT
My sister is about 5'6" with a reasonable sturdy built, and in decent shape.
I actually thought about the sword cane, but it's a stabbing weapon - at the range where it would be use, a stout stick would be better. I see the knife as a close in, back up weapon.
Btw, strangely enough though, in Canada sword canes are legal if the blade is LONGER than 12 inches. Odd, but that's the law.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2009 3:39:51 GMT
Actually, I'd suggest more of a crushing weapon.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2009 4:31:31 GMT
My sister is about 5'6" with a reasonable sturdy built, and in decent shape. I actually thought about the sword cane, but it's a stabbing weapon - at the range where it would be use, a stout stick would be better. I see the knife as a close in, back up weapon. Btw, strangely enough though, in Canada sword canes are legal if the blade is LONGER than 12 inches. Odd, but that's the law. Well, get both. The Cold Steel cane is a good bashing stick as well and CAN give a good slash. If not, a good large combat knife as I suggested, I personally like anything by Ka-Bar. And I think the law is in place so that it's harder to draw the weapon. Care to elaborate? It's not something I've gone into much. But if some day I have a bad back and live in the hood.....
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2009 5:07:28 GMT
Honestly I reckon one of the best hiking weapons for defense against dogs would be a cold steel sjambok; www.coldsteel.com/sjambok.htmlor maybe their indian war club; www.coldsteel.com/indianwarclub.htmlAlthough quite honestly if you can fight off a lion with a sjambok a coyote shouldn't be much of an issue. If she is really worried try a good short hafted spear (if legal of course). In terms of good self defense knives against an animal, go for a two edged dagger type weapon, you want the wound to be as nasty as possible against a dog, it makes them think twice, you also want it short enough that it is a fast weapon, also fast easy access.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2009 7:05:05 GMT
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Post by YlliwCir on Dec 5, 2009 10:16:07 GMT
Looks like some good choices already, Ka-Bars are good and that Woodsman's pal looks wicked. I'd offer up Cold Steels Laredo Bowie if we're strictly talking about knives.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2009 11:07:21 GMT
Her best weapon is to travel in a group. Failing that, not traveling where there are coyotes. Failing that, any sort of machete.
M.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2009 13:03:22 GMT
the bear spray was probably the best idea. But like anything, you need to know how to use it properly. You might also suggest one of those compressed gas bicycle air horns - has the added advantage of attracting attention of anyone else around for help. The woodsman's pal is a great tool/machete. It is my absolute 1st choice for hacking away at stuff - beautifully balanced - and the hook is wickedly useful on strokes pulling back towards you. Heavy tho and you are going to get some pretty odd looks if you just walk along in public parks carrying it.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2009 14:49:12 GMT
An umbrella. It works on agressive strays, should work on coyotes too. You point it toward them and open it, it's freaks them out and they back off. It's easy to keep between you and them and they can't get around it easily. A knife or club means you have to commit to a swing. If you've ever swung a stick at a dog, you'll know, they are quick dodgers. If you swing a club at an agressive dog, chances are he'll duck back to avoid the swing and then lunge when you're open. There is always dog mace too.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2009 17:57:04 GMT
Wow, I wouldn't want to be hit with that sjambok...
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2009 18:14:33 GMT
A knife is a piss poor means of defense versus a coyote. Having grown up out in rural Texas, I can tell you that you don't want to try to fend off two or three coyotes with something shorter than a yard (or a meter i think you call 'em? ) they're too damn fast to protect yourself with anything that short and they don't hunt solo. The bear/dog pepper spray, and air horn is the best suggestion by far. Oh and re: Cold Steel trying to make it look impressive that they can break an egg with a leather stick? HA! The melon was impressive. An egg can be broken with a pencil.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2009 18:16:23 GMT
Her best weapon is to travel in a group. Failing that, not traveling where there are coyotes. Failing that, any sort of machete. M. if it were legal, my Strider knife would take care of any coyote... but then, I can't take my Strider knife out of my house...
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Post by sparky on Dec 5, 2009 18:27:56 GMT
I love my "woodsman's pal"!
I read a story of a lady in California who saved her baby from the jaws of a mountain lion with a pen knife. It had like a two inch blade. So any knife is better than no knife.
I also have the Cold Steel sword cane, it cuts great. Water bottles, branches, and card board. Not to mention the tube makes a heck of an impact weapon!
I also like the umbrella idea, mess with the minds of those critters. ;D
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Post by Mune on Dec 5, 2009 18:38:33 GMT
I have regular interactions with coyotes myself. I practice my swordplay outside after dark, and live in the woodsy northern area of NH. They generally keep to themselves, and thus I've never had to protect myself from them, but I do plan ahead in case of such occurrences. What I do is keep my little 8-shot air pistol handy. I've never had to shoot it at an animal, but in past experiences, I find if I feel they're getting too close a shot or two in the air seems to scare them off. I'm a bit of a naturalist or whatever you'd call it, so I prefer methods which don't end up in coyote death. I'm assuming that air pistols are allowed in Canada.
I'm also a bit familiar with self defense techniques against dog attacks. I'll share what I learned in hopes it might help. The first thing to remember is that dogs (and especially coyotes) are generally smaller and weaker than a person (in a 1 on 1 situation, mind you). Your first defense is to present yourself as the aggressor, or at least give the impression that you will not be easy prey. Coyotes are opportunists, and wont attack unless they feel they are at a distinct advantage.
Now on to the specifics of unarmed melee combat against dogs. Their strong point is their mouth, as it is the single part of their body which is likely to surpass a human in raw muscle power. In essence, a dogs bite is the only thing they have as an advantage. One possible solution to negate this bonus is to wrap your hands or arm around the dogs neck, essentially to strangle them. If your hands (or arm) are positioned correctly, they cannot bite you, and your muscle strength is likely to surpass theirs in this position putting you in control of the situation.
The second, more grisly self defense technique which I learned is exploiting a weak point inherent in the bone structure of dogs (and most 4-legged animals, for that matter). Their front legs point down (of course), with large shoulder blades and a narrow ribcage in between. Such a body structure allows for only a single range of motion; moving forward and backward, not side to side. Essentially, a dogs legs are not designed to spread apart, and forcing them to do so causes, well, catastrophic failure of the ribcage. So, grabbing hold of a dogs two front legs and pulling them apart (out to the sides of their body) will kill the dog.
Having some sort of melee weapon might help, but as others have pointed out, it wont make a big difference. Situational awareness, confidence and lack of fear are your best tools of defense. That, and something that makes a loud noise to scare them off. An air pistol might not be able to kill a dog, but trust me, animals know the sound if a firearm quite well and it will certainly cause them to fear you.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2009 18:52:21 GMT
The main concern I would have with using a knife is that you would have to let them be pretty close to you and you might get savaged. If you are going to get that close its best to have something wrapped around you off arm and keep it raised in a bar across your throat to protect it. Since there aren't any major vessels or tendons on the outside of your forearm, the permanent damage they can do is minimal, unlike what would happen if they got your throat.
The other thing you can do if they bite you like on your arm is to force your arm forward into their mouth. I know it sounds counter intuitive but their jaws are designed to prevent things from being pulled out of their mouths not pushed in. In you push in you can get to the back of the jaws which are very sensative and forces the mouth open. Its a common trick to use with dogs(other than bull dogs) to establish dominance. I've worked with several dogs over the years that were notorious biters and they only would bite me once as they learn biting me hurt them.
Again this should be last ditch only. I would try the umbrella idea or the air horn over letting them close enough for a knife to be my primary defense. As a backup fine, but its better to not let them get that close.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2009 19:19:03 GMT
Hello again folks. Thanks for the advice so far. As I stated in my initial post, I'm well aware that a knife is a "back up" defense, that a stick and spray is better, and that having friends with you and keeping your eyes open is best (well I didn't mention that last one, but I guess it bears repeating). Let's try to focus a bit here Anyway I gave this some thought, and I want to see if I'm off base. First, it seems to me that if you are in a situation where you have to take you your knife, you have to be able to do it super fast. Adrenaline will mess up fine motor skills, so a fixed bladed sounds best (no folding knives, switchblades are illegal in Canada). Second, there needs to be a "hand guard", and by this I mean something that will keep your hand from slipping onto the blade while you are stabbing with the weapon. Thirdly, since we are talking about stabbing, it seems that the knife should be able to do that well. I'm not sure at this point if, overall, a single edge knife with a clip point would be best, or if a doubled edged blade would be better. Lastly, the knife can't be too big, or my sister won't bring it with her (not to mention it may cause her grief with people freaking out etc). At the same time, if it's too short it's not going to do much. So... here are a few candidates I'm looking at (their physical store is in Ottawa, so I can go and actually get it in person - Christmas is approaching fast. Yes, she should have told me this a month ago). www.kuttersknives.com/scrItem.asp?product_id=1963&product_subtypes_id=197&product_types_id=43www.kuttersknives.com/scrItem.asp?product_id=793&product_subtypes_id=99&product_types_id=43thanks again
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SlayerofDarkness
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Post by SlayerofDarkness on Dec 5, 2009 21:28:39 GMT
Um... niether? I've never heard of that brand/store, but both of those look kind of like junk to me, although I may be completely off base. I'd suggest a Cold Steel OSS. It's virtually impossible to slip while using one, it's sharp as heck, pointy as heck times 2, and just the right size. Besides, you can get one for $30USD. Just my $0.02... -Slayer
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