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Katana
Nov 29, 2009 3:19:47 GMT
Post by Deleted on Nov 29, 2009 3:19:47 GMT
I was talking less about the person and more about the equipment.
I find it very hard to believe that special ops people would fight carrying 100 kg on them. That's 220 lbs and if you mean to tell me that anyone can move nimbly with that load then I suggest you strap it on and try it for yourself. Soldiers do carry about 80 lbs these days, but not in battle. I know because my father has been in the army for 10 years. You don't engage with your meals and such on you...
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Katana
Nov 29, 2009 4:05:24 GMT
Post by randomnobody on Nov 29, 2009 4:05:24 GMT
Yeah, 100kg is a bit much. I don't even weigh that much. 60+ pounds might be a bit much for some to strap to their back, not really an issue for me but armor's weight (that is, a classic suit of armor) is distributed across the entire body, with enough rigs and suspension and so on to make it far more managable. Especially if one is accustomed to wearing it.
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Katana
Nov 29, 2009 4:23:55 GMT
Post by Deleted on Nov 29, 2009 4:23:55 GMT
That is still sixty extra pounds that you are carrying while you fight. I doubt that a warrior would benefit from the weight itself. No, the more someone carries, the more difficult movement is. I am also certain that regardless of how much you are accustomed to carrying your heavy load that you will be able to move easier without the load. Saying that it would not hinder you is like saying that a katana can chop iron. I would still take the extra pounds if it meant not dying.
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Katana
Nov 29, 2009 4:40:20 GMT
Post by randomnobody on Nov 29, 2009 4:40:20 GMT
But a katana CAN chop iron. Well, a good one can "chop" into some iron... ...What? And sure, it's always easier to move when nude, but it's also a bad idea to run into battle naked. A good set of armor still allows plenty of movement. That it lasted as long as it did proves this just fine.
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Katana
Nov 29, 2009 6:17:34 GMT
Post by Deleted on Nov 29, 2009 6:17:34 GMT
Is the shoto usually hung downwards like that? M.
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Katana
Nov 29, 2009 7:05:52 GMT
Post by Deleted on Nov 29, 2009 7:05:52 GMT
Is the shoto usually hung downwards like that? M. Actually, I don't think thats the shoto but the saya....and no its not supposed to hang down like that.
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Katana
Nov 29, 2009 7:26:56 GMT
Post by Deleted on Nov 29, 2009 7:26:56 GMT
No, but hatsumi makes up his own rules so not likely anyone would argue.
You do know how fit/strong spec ops guys need to be? Just looking at the SAS entry requirements makes me think these guys could carry upto about 80 kilos and still move pretty damn well. I mean my brother as part of his BFA has to carry a 75 kilo pack and do a 2 kilometre run in under 10 minutes. Can't tell me your body wouldn't get used to the weight and get stronger because of it? Same goes for armour and the fact that most of those guys would have worn it most of the days of their lives.
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Katana
Nov 29, 2009 8:05:50 GMT
Post by Deleted on Nov 29, 2009 8:05:50 GMT
I was talking less about the person and more about the equipment. I find it very hard to believe that special ops people would fight carrying 100 kg on them. That's 220 lbs and if you mean to tell me that anyone can move nimbly with that load then I suggest you strap it on and try it for yourself. Soldiers do carry about 80 lbs these days, but not in battle. I know because my father has been in the army for 10 years. You don't engage with your meals and such on you... I've been in for 2 years so I can't speak from extensive experience. I do know that when you get shot at you drop your pack and then carry out your battle drills etc. I also said over 100 pounds not 100 kgs.
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Katana
Nov 29, 2009 16:50:40 GMT
Post by Deleted on Nov 29, 2009 16:50:40 GMT
I was talking less about the person and more about the equipment. I find it very hard to believe that special ops people would fight carrying 100 kg on them. That's 220 lbs and if you mean to tell me that anyone can move nimbly with that load then I suggest you strap it on and try it for yourself. Soldiers do carry about 80 lbs these days, but not in battle. I know because my father has been in the army for 10 years. You don't engage with your meals and such on you... I've been in for 2 years so I can't speak from extensive experience. I do know that when you get shot at you drop your pack and then carry out your battle drills etc. I also said over 100 pounds not 100 kgs. No, you don't drop your pack before firing, but before going into your foxhole you have some sort of encampment close by. When you are patrolling you only carry with you what you need immediately, you don't carry your whole pack with you I don't think wearing armor is a bad idea... I am a fan of armor and medieval combat (surprise surprise), but I think that having 60/80 lbs weighing you down would make it all the harder to sneak by half battalion to try and hack through a cannon...
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Katana
Nov 29, 2009 21:37:18 GMT
Post by Deleted on Nov 29, 2009 21:37:18 GMT
I'm talking about patrolling for more than 1 day i.e long range patrolling ala Vietnam or East Timor and Solomon Islands be it an OP tasking or clearing patrol (I know guys in my unit who were in firefights in Timor). I think we're both arguing semantics here I've read of fully harnessed knights being able to vault onto their horses before. It's all about conditioning
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Katana
Nov 30, 2009 20:59:18 GMT
Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2009 20:59:18 GMT
There are guys who can do this NOW...I've seen the vids, but I can't remember the guy's name- he wears full harness weighing in at around 70lbs but he can do standing broad jumps, one-armed pushups- his range of motion is incredible considering the weight of armor he's wearing.
In some of my readings, I'm learning that in some cases, I won't say all, plate armor was attached to heavy leather garments; cuisses would strap to heavy leather leggings- knee cops and greaves would attach to the the cuisses which hang off the leggings. The heavy tunic would have attachment points for the breast and backplates, espaliers and fauld- tassets could hang from the belt; all this so the distribution of weight isn't solely on the shoulders (as it is when wearing chainmail) making it more manageable so that mobility isn't totally sacrificed.
Of course, I'd also read that knights were so cumbersome that they had to be helped into the saddle, but I can't help but wonder how much of that is Hollywood invention? 70lbs sounds like a lot, but my own kit weighs in at or around 55lbs and I have no trouble wearing it or moving around in it while wearing but I think alot of that has to do with how accustomed you are to the weight.
For instance, I'll wear my haubergeon around the house a few weeks before the Faire season hits to reacquaint my aging joints with the extra weight; the other bits are more manageable if I can just get acclimated to the shirt (which is 25 or 30lbs by itself).
That's just me, though...different for others I'm sure as we're not all the same.
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