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Post by Tom K. (ianflaer) on Sept 22, 2009 17:43:43 GMT
OK M.Eversberg, I think just for that comment I'll have to do a section in my next review about how good the sword would be on Mars or Jupiter and combine them into one over-all result in an attept to persue the elusive "Objectivity" I notice our OP has gone silent. . . My jokes...you do not get them M. Well, I guess I still don't. I just keyed in on the "on Earth" part and played with it. you are an enigma sir, wrapped in a riddle, disguised as something intelligeble.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 22, 2009 18:01:47 GMT
dunno Kid... the guy just joined, and his very first message is a 'We need to find a better way to do reviews...' Not 'Hi, how are you guys, I'm a sword collector as well' he just jumps right in and starts saying what we are doing wrong. Also, what is this 'We' buissness... that was his first post! There is no 'WE' yet, you just got here! At the very least, I think the OP is rude and assumptive and arrogant... at most, pure 100% grade A troll As A Defender of the Faith !! I will also +1 4u
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Post by YlliwCir on Sept 22, 2009 18:11:58 GMT
Did I log into SFI by accident? You've made a valid statement Daigoro. Elitism shows itself in many ways. The OP may have been with us for, who knows - a year? - but had just decided to join this "friendly" forum. + 1 2 U after re-charge. Good point, brothers. I was put off by what I perceived as presumptuousness in the OP myself. However it was just one post and sometimes people get enthusiastic and add into that the ambiguity of the web and misunderstandings can occur. The rush to judgment did have a taste of something I've experienced elsewhere. Then again, I got M. Eversberg II's joke so maybe I'm off the mark
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Post by Deleted on Sept 22, 2009 19:59:46 GMT
\o/
Someone got it!
I think the most objective a sword review can get is listing the kind of steel. Other than that...I don't know.
M.
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Post by shadowhowler on Sept 22, 2009 21:36:06 GMT
Did I log into SFI by accident? I don't think thats a fair compression myself... I'm not bashing the guy because he does not like expensive swords or because he does not have training... I am saying when you join a new place... you don't make your first and ONLY two posts about how the new place you have joined is doing it all wrong and how 'We' need to change the way we do it. That would be like me joining the SCA tomorrow and then telling them, on that very first visit, that their style of combat is all wrong... or a get a job at Wallmat and I walk up to the managers the first day and say 'Hey, your system for stocking and innovatory is totally wrong, you should do it like this.' That is ridiculously presumptive... and if you think I'm an elitist for thinking so, well, I dunno what to tell you... I consider it bad manners to just walk in a place and go off the moment you set foot there.
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Post by alvin on Sept 22, 2009 21:42:20 GMT
Talking to a brick wall, but the choice of words can give an impression that may not have been intended.
“ I dunno Kid... the guy just joined, and his very first message is a 'We need to find a better way to do reviews...' Not 'Hi, how are you guys, I'm a sword collector as well' he just jumps right in and starts saying what we are doing wrong. “
One might interpret that as meaning something like…. "Boy, you ain't been here long enough to speak to US without being spoken to first. Keep yer mouth shut, yer eyes open, and study on our vast and sage knowledge. You may ask US questions if you do it in a manner WE old timers consider polite and respectful. Who knows, you may just learn something. After a time, when WE think you have learned sufficiently, WE will then allow you make suggestions to US. “
“ Also, what is this 'We' buissness... that was his first post! There is no 'WE' yet, you just got here! “
One might interpret that as meaning something like…. “ 'We' ?....WE ?!!!. WE old timers will let you know when you can consider yourself to be one of US ! "
“ At the very least, I think the OP is rude and assumptive and arrogant... at most, pure 100% grade A troll. “
One might interpret that as meaning something like…. “ Because if you say something that one of WE old timers think is a bit pushy, you must expect to be spoken down to in a rude, judgmental, assumptive and arrogant fashion by WE members who have been here for soooo long. And remember, this is a Friendly Forum, the most friendly on the interNETwebz. “
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Post by ShooterMike on Sept 22, 2009 21:49:23 GMT
Dr. Mike would prescribe "chill pills" all around. They taste so yummy. Not really commenting on "objectivity" here, but just some food for thought... When I read old reviews I wrote 2-3 years ago I cringe. I would write something tooootally different about the same sword now, or in the last year or so. I feel like I recommended some swords much too highly, and missed a lot of the finer points. Of course, SOME of the bad points have only come out with use and time.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 22, 2009 21:55:30 GMT
Even if it was trolling there is still something to be gained from the post. Talking about how to make things better is good in any sense.
I think we need to drop the review scores at the end or reviews. They are a little arbitrary.
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Post by shadowhowler on Sept 22, 2009 21:55:57 GMT
Talking to a brick wall, but the choice of words can give an impression that may not have been intended. “ I dunno Kid... the guy just joined, and his very first message is a 'We need to find a better way to do reviews...' Not 'Hi, how are you guys, I'm a sword collector as well' he just jumps right in and starts saying what we are doing wrong. “ One might interpret that as meaning something like…. "Boy, you ain't been here long enough to speak to US without being spoken to first. Keep yer mouth shut, yer eyes open, and study on our vast and sage knowledge. You may ask US questions if you do it in a manner WE old timers consider polite and respectful. Who knows, you may just learn something. After a time, when WE think you have learned sufficiently, WE will then allow you make suggestions to US. ““ Also, what is this 'We' buissness... that was his first post! There is no 'WE' yet, you just got here! “ One might interpret that as meaning something like…. “ 'We' ?....WE ?!!!. WE old timers will let you know when you can consider yourself to be one of US ! "“ At the very least, I think the OP is rude and assumptive and arrogant... at most, pure 100% grade A troll. “One might interpret that as meaning something like…. “ Because if you say something that one of WE old timers think is a bit pushy, you must expect to be spoken down to in a rude, judgmental, assumptive and arrogant fashion by WE members who have been here for soooo long. And remember, this is a Friendly Forum, the most friendly on the interNETwebz. “
Sure Alvin, one COULD read it that way, if one were looking for a reason to jump someone else and feel better about themself. Moral superiority can be jsut as bad as percived elitism. The only points I am trying to make are as follows: 1. I don't think its polite to join ANY new group... and have your first action/message right out of the gate be telling them how they are doing things wrong... *I* see that as rude behavour, rude behavour *I* would not inflict on others when *I* join new groups. I belive I am more polite then that... is there something wrong with having manners? Are you opposed to being polite? Do you just walk up to people and start giving them the buissness, or do you wait to get to know them, and let them get to know you before you start unloading on them? People tend to listen a bit more when the person talking makes themself know to the people they are talking to, and lets them know him. I don't think this is a hard concept to grasp. 2. The manner in which 'Swordfighter' presented himself here is odd enough to suggest something more to it. My first guess is 'Swordfighter' is a shell account for someone else here who wanted to make this point about how reviews are done without connecting it to his normal account... so he created a shell account to do so. Thus the 'we' in his statements is a natural slip of words. Otherwise, it would be strange to me that a new member not take a moment to say 'Hi, I've been reading the forums for awhile and decided to join' or SOMETHING along those lines... but instead jump right into making a thread telling us how reviews need to be done differently. 3. If not a shell account by someone here... then maybe a troll account by someone from somewhere else... like the aformention SFI... and the whole goal was to post this here and 'stir things up'... which apparently has worked quite well. Look at it... new member, two posts, and then poof, gone... what where they trying to acomplish? If you were not so busy trying to make yourself feel better then others, or contenuing this outright bizzar rampage you have on me which I still have NO idea the reason for, maybe you would stop and see that ANY way you slice it, the OP's aproch was strange at the very least. Think about it.
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Post by shadowhowler on Sept 22, 2009 21:57:49 GMT
I think we need to drop the review scores at the end or reviews. They are a little arbitrary. We DID that already... its just that with some of the old reviews, the writers of the review have not got around to updating them. I updated all of mine, I belive.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 22, 2009 22:01:21 GMT
Agreed with shootermike.
In retrospect some reviews may need to be flagged and/or changed in light of the current market and product availability. What was great a few years back may now be completely out done by newer, cheaper swords.
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Post by alvin on Sept 22, 2009 22:04:09 GMT
Sure Alvin, one COULD read it that way, if one were looking for a reason to jump someone else and feel better about themself. Moral superiority can be jsut as bad as percived elitism.... If you were not so busy trying to make yourself feel better then others, or contenuing this outright bizzar rampage you have on me which I still have NO idea the reason for, maybe you would stop and see that ANY way you slice it, the OP's aproch was strange at the very least. May need medicines Shallowhowler There's a song from my time that had lyrics that went something like..." Paranoia....Big Destroya"
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Post by shadowhowler on Sept 22, 2009 22:06:08 GMT
Agreed with shootermike. In retrospect some reviews may need to be flagged and/or changed in light of the current market and product availability. What was great a few years back may now be completely out done by newer, cheaper swords. I think, if the reviewer can make the time, edits would be very usefull for this sort of thing. Add on 'Edit: 00/00/0000' (where the )'s are the date of the edit) to discuss what happens to the sword long term, or how ones opinions on the sword may change. That way, anyone reading threw the reviews will get an updated thought on what the reviewer thinks about the sword NOW... not just then.
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Post by shadowhowler on Sept 22, 2009 22:07:33 GMT
May need medicines Shallowhowler There's a song from my time that had lyrics that went something like..." Paranoia....Big Destroya" Yeah, OK Alvin... thats VERY helpful, I'll take that into consideration.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 22, 2009 22:10:32 GMT
Yeah, great idea. I suppose a lot of reviews are "fresh out the box". How the edge has held up, grip, polish...etc
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Post by shadowhowler on Sept 22, 2009 22:13:13 GMT
Yeah, great idea. I suppose a lot of reviews are "fresh out the box". How the edge has held up, grip, polish...etc I think I'll make the effort to go over my reviews in the next couple days, read them, and see if I have any edits to add now that time has passed and my experinces with swords is greater. Like magazines do with car reviews... they often do a review when they first get the car... but then they update the review over the next year as the miles add up. They pass the car around the office and have many staffers use it, and they note what they think of it not just when its shinny and new, but as time passes.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 22, 2009 23:14:14 GMT
Dr. Mike would prescribe "chill pills" all around. They taste so yummy. Not really commenting on "objectivity" here, but just some food for thought... When I read old reviews I wrote 2-3 years ago I cringe. I would write something tooootally different about the same sword now, or in the last year or so. I feel like I recommended some swords much too highly, and missed a lot of the finer points. Of course, SOME of the bad points have only come out with use and time. Is it too late / against rules to update them? M.
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Post by sparky on Sept 23, 2009 0:03:41 GMT
I have a question. What is a troll in reference to this newfangled web thingy? (not the thing under the bridge) Is it someone that lurks and just tries to stir up trouble? If so are we to blame for taking the bait? Is it worth the emotional energy to let "trolls" upset us. Just a thought Rob
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Post by shadowhowler on Sept 23, 2009 0:04:14 GMT
Is it too late / against rules to update them? M. Certainly not. As mentioned, I'm going to look into updating my reviews. The only problem I can forsee is reviews that have been 'ported over to the SBG main site. Updating them here will not do so there... for that, Paul would need to update them.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 23, 2009 0:39:24 GMT
May need medicines Shallowhowler There's a song from my time that had lyrics that went something like..." Paranoia....Big Destroya" Yeah, OK Alvin... thats VERY helpful, I'll take that into consideration. You expected better???
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