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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2009 22:04:28 GMT
I think the whole reason the review format was switched to a Pro's and Con's list from a numbers rating was to let us come to a reasonable balance between our subjective opinions of a sword and how informed those opinions are by more "objective" factors. Before, a reviewer might love his or her sword more than anything else, and just assign it "5" in everything from "fit and finish" to "historical accuracy" because it was perfect for him or her. But someone else might find the finish unacceptable or only consider a museum reproduction to be historically accurate.
With the current review template, people get to share what they love about their sword, and also comment about things that might not be preferable for others. I agree, it would be nice to see more measurements and specs that are a bit standardized if people took the time to check them, but if we insist on the review being a serious of tests and the like, it seems more like a chore and less like a fun thing to do.
I'm happy if people show what they love about the sword, give us lots of pics, a video if they can, and let us know what's not perfect about it.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2009 22:05:21 GMT
It's the noun form of the adjective "fast." Odd as it sounds, it is a word. Oh, cool. Referring to the ease of handling it, I suppose? I don't know how to measure that.
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Post by shadowhowler on Sept 21, 2009 22:18:11 GMT
About objectivity... I agree with Kid that the statement "objectivity is a myth" is useless... there are in fact plenty of things that can be proved objectively using the scientific method. However, I disagree with Cold Napalm when he says 'Everything can be broken down objectivly'... thats just not true. Some things will always remain subjective... color preferences, peoples reaction to art and music... many things in this world are a matter of personal preference and taste and can not be made objective, they will always be subjective. Swords straddle a line between these two things, in my opinion. On the one hard there are some basic physical facts about them that could be tested and compared objectively... but the equipment and time involved is prohibitive for us to do so very well. Other aspects about swords... aesthetics, the 'feel' of the blade in hand... these are subjective, and will vary from person to person. Case in point... Tom and I both dislike the feel of the VA Castile sword in hand... we felt it was just to heavy and cumbersome to be a comfortable, effective single handed sword. Tom's buddy Tim, on the other hand, LOVED it... he has a preference for larger, heavier swords and he dug the Castile. Same sword, three people, 2 opinions shared, on differed... pure subjectivity. All we can do with reviews is give our honest, no BS opinion on every sword we review... and when so doing, explain WHY we feel the way we do about certain aspects of it, and make clear our experience with swords so that our opinion can be put into context by those reading it.
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Avery
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"It's alright little brother... There are more!!!
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Post by Avery on Sept 21, 2009 22:20:57 GMT
Yeah, lets face it, most of the folks here are enthusiasts. Doing lab tests and filling a review with more jargon isn't going to help much. I think aside from the basic stats, you can't really be objective unless you're in a lab, and who wants to do that when you could be out cutting stuff? Also, and this has been said, most folks who stick around long enough will find a reviewer who likes the same things as they do. So when that reviewer says " too light" or " to slow of a recovery", the reader understands what that will mean to them.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2009 22:36:48 GMT
What makes all this worse is that no two swords are alike. There are so many variables in hand made swords it is impossible to know what you're getting. The reviewer might have gotten a "good sword." Then you buy the sword and the polish isn't right, the temper wasn't done correctly, or the fittings are loose. I have learned that you must take all factors into account, such as: Rep of swordmaker, specs of sword, price of sword, and then anothers opinion. In the end unless you buy high end custom products(even some risk here) you will never know exactly what will arrive at your door step. That is why you MUST deal with vendors that have very good customer service. IMHO.
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Post by shadowhowler on Sept 21, 2009 22:40:01 GMT
What makes all this worse is that no two swords are alike. There are so many variables in hand made swords it is impossible to know what you're getting. The reviewer might have gotten a "good sword." Then you buy the sword and the polish isn't right, the temper wasn't done correctly, or the fittings are loose. Thats why I advocate more then one review of the same type of sword... gives you a borader spectrum from which to draw your conclusions.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2009 23:56:43 GMT
Hey shadow...you do know that there are studies that are being done to objectively find out color preference right? Just because we can´t break it down into numbers now doesn´t mean we can´t in the future...course there is the line of if we should. I mean are people still people if we analyze them down to numbers? In the castile example, you and tom may not like tip heavy swords due to physical reasons. That can be broken down by science. That of course is just one of many things. When I say eventually I mean if you had all the time in the world, with all the resources you want and you had the collective intelligence of all sentient life forms eventually. Not reasonably so at this time .
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Post by shadowhowler on Sept 22, 2009 0:27:08 GMT
When I say eventually I mean if you had all the time in the world, with all the resources you want and you had the collective intelligence of all sentient life forms eventually. Not reasonably so at this time . Ah, I follow you... Indeed, it does beg the question for the future as to if we SHOULD do everything we CAN do.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 22, 2009 4:36:00 GMT
Even if I break down a sword into maths, it's only true on earth. This makes it subjective, still.
Nothing is ever objective; variables are everywhere.
M.
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Post by Tom K. (ianflaer) on Sept 22, 2009 5:04:41 GMT
OK M.Eversberg, I think just for that comment I'll have to do a section in my next review about how good the sword would be on Mars or Jupiter and combine them into one over-all result in an attept to persue the elusive "Objectivity"
I notice our OP has gone silent. . .
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Post by shadowhowler on Sept 22, 2009 6:53:56 GMT
I notice our OP has gone silent. . . Likely for the best... its really a pointless debate in the first place, and I question the intention of it to began with.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 22, 2009 8:39:19 GMT
Is it really a pointless debate? If it was trolling or had any bad intention I still think it brought up a few valid points.
The only real problem I've seen is overtly positive reviews for swords we know to be under par at their price point. People may use these reviews to decide on their purchase and be put in a dangerous position because of it.
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Post by kidcasanova on Sept 22, 2009 8:51:31 GMT
I genuinely don't think the OP had any negative intentions with his post. Just his take on what he'd like to see in reviews. I agree that over-enthusiastic (like the old 6/5 debates we used to have. ) reviews don't help, just as much as I think a purely statistical review wouldn't help.
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Post by shadowhowler on Sept 22, 2009 11:15:58 GMT
I genuinely don't think the OP had any negative intentions with his post. Just his take on what he'd like to see in reviews. I dunno Kid... the guy just joined, and his very first message is a 'We need to find a better way to do reviews...' Not 'Hi, how are you guys, I'm a sword collector as well' he just jumps right in and starts saying what we are doing wrong. Also, what is this 'We' buissness... that was his first post! There is no 'WE' yet, you just got here! At the very least, I think the OP is rude and assumptive and arrogant... at most, pure 100% grade A troll.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 22, 2009 14:03:10 GMT
Kid and Brenno already covered it pretty well... I don't think there is a way to remove subjectivity from sword reviews. Thats why more reviews of the same sword are useful... to get more pespectives. If a review dosn't ansywer all your questions, then ask some. Thats about as good as it gets tho. I agree. To facilitate this, perhaps review points should be given for ALL sword reviews. AFAIK now review points are only given for the FIRST review of a particular sword. More opinions means a wider range of opinions. For example one reviewer may think a sword is "whippy" and another may not. They may base this on different methods of testing, or just how it feels to them. Maybe they swing slightly differently, or used different types of targets. If you think this may result in too many review points going out then lower the points given on reviews. I don't think it should matter who does the review first. The second review may be the best ever given! Seconded. Besides, there's no way to be totally objective when dealing with individual tastes; what works for one doesn't work for another- does that make one of us wrong? Not at all. Subjective...that's what we're left with, but for me, its enough to form the basis of an opinion unless/until I'm holding that particular sword in-hand.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 22, 2009 16:10:30 GMT
OK M.Eversberg, I think just for that comment I'll have to do a section in my next review about how good the sword would be on Mars or Jupiter and combine them into one over-all result in an attept to persue the elusive "Objectivity" I notice our OP has gone silent. . . My jokes...you do not get them M.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 22, 2009 16:45:00 GMT
Protoss are not known for their sense of humor, eh Zealot?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 22, 2009 17:02:42 GMT
I genuinely don't think the OP had any negative intentions with his post. Just his take on what he'd like to see in reviews. I dunno Kid... the guy just joined, and his very first message is a 'We need to find a better way to do reviews...' Not 'Hi, how are you guys, I'm a sword collector as well' he just jumps right in and starts saying what we are doing wrong. Also, what is this 'We' buissness... that was his first post! There is no 'WE' yet, you just got here! At the very least, I think the OP is rude and assumptive and arrogant... at most, pure 100% grade A troll. Did I log into SFI by accident?
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Post by alvin on Sept 22, 2009 17:12:12 GMT
I dunno Kid... the guy just joined, and his very first message is a 'We need to find a better way to do reviews...' Not 'Hi, how are you guys, I'm a sword collector as well' he just jumps right in and starts saying what we are doing wrong. Also, what is this 'We' buissness... that was his first post! There is no 'WE' yet, you just got here! At the very least, I think the OP is rude and assumptive and arrogant... at most, pure 100% grade A troll. Did I log into SFI by accident? You've made a valid statement Daigoro. Elitism shows itself in many ways. The OP may have been with us for, who knows - a year? - but had just decided to join this "friendly" forum.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 22, 2009 17:35:43 GMT
I don't get the reference.
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