Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2009 19:23:23 GMT
Sometimes I think what works best is how a sword suits its owner/user...what you might find whippy, I might feel is perfectly adequate; the opposite also rings true. One thing we need to stay away from is exhorting one over another simply because of what we've heard or read, rather than by personal experience.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2009 19:32:05 GMT
Exactly Ebon.
It's one thing to say "I read that this sword is really great." It's another to say "This is sword is better than this one" especially when you haven't personally tried both.
And making unsubstantiated statements should also be avoided. Backup what is said with facts and research. We're all trying to learn here and misinformation is bad for everyone.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2009 19:38:11 GMT
Yes, and I've been guilty of it in the past because I trust the source, but it is still important to denote having heard it rather than knowing it. We agree.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2009 20:21:19 GMT
I'm not Napalm but I can say I handled the Tinker longsword and the VA practical LS. Both are VERY good swords but like Napalm I feel like the hanwei blade is harder and more resilent. About flex, both flexd pretty well so I can't say anything about that. See, thats useful info... its direct and it tells me what your basing the comparasion on. Can I ask... you say you felt the Hanwei blade is harder and more resilent... what makes you think so? Did you cut with both and the VA took damage while the Hanwei did not? What gives you the impression the Hanwei is 'harder and more resilent'? Sure you can. Well, I think the Hanwei's harder because I banged both blades together and the VA took more damage. Stop gasping ;D I hit the Tinker's edge against the VA's flat and then the other way round. The edge of the Hanwei wasn't damaged AT ALL, but the flat of the VA had a scratch. when I did it the other way around, the edge of the VA was nicked and the flat of the Hanwei had just a barely visible sratch. I know, you shouldn't treat swords like that but my friend wanted to know and I polished the scratches out anyways. I didn't notice a difference during cutting because we cut only bottles and beach mats and both swords performed very well. I liked the Hanwei more but that had to do with handling and not with cutting performance. But keep in mind that this only reflexes the heat treat of these particular swords so take it with a grain of salt.
|
|
|
Post by shadowhowler on Sept 4, 2009 22:23:23 GMT
Sure you can. Well, I think the Hanwei's harder because I banged both blades together and the VA took more damage. Stop gasping ;D ;D I hit the Tinker's edge against the VA's flat and then the other way round. The edge of the Hanwei wasn't damaged AT ALL, but the flat of the VA had a scratch. when I did it the other way around, the edge of the VA was nicked and the flat of the Hanwei had just a barely visible sratch. I know, you shouldn't treat swords like that but my friend wanted to know and I polished the scratches out anyways. I didn't notice a difference during cutting because we cut only bottles and beach mats and both swords performed very well. I liked the Hanwei more but that had to do with handling and not with cutting performance. But keep in mind that this only reflexes the heat treat of these particular swords so take it with a grain of salt. I'm not an expert... but if I had done what you had done, that would lead me to belive that the Hanwei was harder then the Valiant Armoury also. Thanks for the info.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2009 2:18:11 GMT
I might be wrong here but I think we are using the wrong term here. What cheness just described is not the hardness but the toughness of the metal, which is the opposite of hardness. A hard blade will tend to chip more easily. A soft blade is stronger.
I thought: Hardness = sharpness and retention of sharpness but brittle. Softer = tougher, more resistant to breaking but doesn't hold an edge as well.
That's how I understood it anyway.
Cheness that is an excellent test and thanks for sacrificing your swords for the cause. Would you happen to have pictures of the edges. I'd like to see the damage to the swords (and lack thereof).
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2009 8:35:30 GMT
Well I have the H/T bastard sword, I have have gotten a chance to look at most of the other H/T line swords besides the latest two. I´m comparing it to the VA practical line that Razor owns when I visit him...along with the three blades at the blacksmith I visit often .
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2009 9:22:26 GMT
Cheness that is an excellent test and thanks for sacrificing your swords for the cause. Would you happen to have pictures of the edges. I'd like to see the damage to the swords (and lack thereof). Actually I was not sacrificing MY swords but the ones of a friend ;D Seriously, like I said, HE wanted to know (me too, but I didn't tell him). Sorry, since they are not my swords I don't have pics but you wouldn't see a damage anyways. Like I said I polished everything out and touched the edge of the VA up. The Tinker didn't even need to be polished, really. Some metal glo (or the german equivalent) took care of the minimal scratch in the flat of the blade. The VA nedded some light brushing with high grit sandpaper and some minimal reworking of the edge. I was done after 5 minutes. Then you couldn't even see the damage if you knew it was there. After all, I don't think the VA's a lot softer than the Hanwei but just a little bit. If the Hanwei's 52 the VA's about 50 or 49 I guess.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2009 9:27:54 GMT
Oh, and I think we DO talk about the hardness here. The harder blade can scratch the softer one. A test of toughness would be a destructive test and not a LIGHT banging together of the two blades. It really was just a light *cling*. I didn't want to damage the swords of my friend severly. We just wanted to figure out what blade's harder. It was all done for THE GREATER GOOD... THE GREATER GOOD (what movie was that? Hot Fuzz?)
|
|
|
Post by genocideseth on Sept 5, 2009 9:50:00 GMT
I learned a lot from this thread. I am not sure which I want more now. I was previously thinking Tinker... And I think both sound appealing now.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2009 11:28:57 GMT
Mm...that's how to test and know which got better heat treatment? For the OP, this is a good sword:
|
|
|
Post by YlliwCir on Sept 5, 2009 11:38:23 GMT
Ah, the KC Teutonic. They have changed the fittings a bit since I got mine. I hope they left the blade the same, looks like. Well, hell. Here's a vid;
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2009 11:56:11 GMT
You rock, Ric!
|
|
|
Post by YlliwCir on Sept 5, 2009 11:59:19 GMT
LOL, thanks, Phillip.
|
|
|
Post by Tom K. (ianflaer) on Sept 6, 2009 4:43:41 GMT
yeah what Cheness did was pretty much a scratch test and would indicate a slightly harder surface in the area tested. still it sounds like the difference was pretty small.
I think the big start up on the H/T heat treat reputation was from Shooter Mike's original Longsword review. he said that his files slid right off it and it was a real pain to sharpen.
as to my experience I think the EMSHS I have is pretty comparable to the VA 303s (1st gen Custom tuned) in heat treat but it is hard to tell. they are very different swords. both of them are wonderful swords and some people will like one better than the other. my preference falls slightly to the EMSHS because I like the way it handles better and I like some of the design elements better (wider blade at the base and a fuller that tapers with the blade profile is just SEXY SEXY SEXY) but as you can see this is 99% opinion.
my 303 has a balance point of 6.25" while my EMSHS balances at 4.75" but my EMSHS has been HEAVILY modified and is NOT a goo representative of the production line in balance point. though I think the production model still balances out around 5-5.5" which I would like better but the 6.25" COG makes for a stronger cut.
I think VA has better furniture than the H/T line now that Sonny has started doing it in-house.
there are certainly advantages both ways it is going to depend on what people like.
my top 3:
VA 304s (first gen, custom tuned)
H/T EMSHS
VA 303s (1st gen/custom tuned)
|
|
|
Post by shadowhowler on Sept 6, 2009 4:50:48 GMT
Well I have the H/T bastard sword, I have have gotten a chance to look at most of the other H/T line swords besides the latest two. I´m comparing it to the VA practical line that Razor owns when I visit him...along with the three blades at the blacksmith I visit often . Ok... So when making your comparasion, what makes you think the Hanwei Tinker has a better Heat Treatment then the VA? In Chenessfan's case, he actualy dmaaged them into one another to see which was harder... what is it that you did/noticed that makes you think the Hanwei Tinker has a better heat treatment?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 6, 2009 14:04:19 GMT
I think Tom may have summed it up best:
Both are excellent and which one is "better" is purely opinion.
Me? I'd love to get my hands on an EMSHS so I can form my own opinion.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 6, 2009 14:41:40 GMT
Just to help out any other noobs like myself who may be reading this thread: The Tinker EMSHS (Early Medival Single Hand Sword) is #SH2404 The Tinker Bastard Sword is #SH2411 The Tinker Longsword is #SH2394 Sometimes it gets a little confusing for us beginners to sort through all the jargon and acronyms. ;D
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 6, 2009 23:18:38 GMT
Well I have the H/T bastard sword, I have have gotten a chance to look at most of the other H/T line swords besides the latest two. I´m comparing it to the VA practical line that Razor owns when I visit him...along with the three blades at the blacksmith I visit often . Ok... So when making your comparasion, what makes you think the Hanwei Tinker has a better Heat Treatment then the VA? In Chenessfan's case, he actualy dmaaged them into one another to see which was harder... what is it that you did/noticed that makes you think the Hanwei Tinker has a better heat treatment? Ok well from the learning curve abuse I have seen on both the practical and the tinker bastard sword as it gets plowed into pressure treated wood repeatedly, the hanwei just holds up better. Less sharpening, less adjustments, less chips having to be ground out and such. But as mentioned, it´s close. Also the adjustments seems to be stressing the VA faster then the hanwei...but I suspect that is a factor of blade geometry difference over HT difference mostly.
|
|
|
Post by Tom K. (ianflaer) on Sept 7, 2009 0:31:01 GMT
good info Cold Napalm. yet whatever the reason the results are the same. you are saying that for whatever reason the H/T longsword you have access to seems tougher than its VA counterpart.
I think at this point that we are getting down deep into the weeds, so let me ask you this: what would you say are the characteristics between these two swords that are significatly different?
|
|