VA Atrim Practical Longsword--How Sharp?
Jul 24, 2009 8:43:08 GMT
Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2009 8:43:08 GMT
/Who is that dashing Pirate-looking fellow?
Alright. I've been familiar with and eternally thankful for SBG for years, and I've been viewing the discussion forum for 5 months or so, but I haven't made an account and said anything until now. For three reasons:
1. The people here are so knowledgeable and experienced that there are few things I could contribute that wouldn't be said much better by the other mild-mannered forumites.
2. I don't have a digital camera or a video camera, so my own insatiable need to wanna SEE more and more of swords so I can nitpick and analyze would make any reviews by me horrendous and hypocritical.
3. I... (hangs head in shame) had never done any cutting with my swords. Until last week! More on that in a sec. I'm at school most months of the year and my university doesn't approve of swinging big bladed weapons for some reason. I didn't think I could really "join the SBG crew" if my blades had never done anything but sit and look pretty.
But after a recent adventure I feel as if you all are the best resource to quell my anxiety. In a nutshell, I purchased a VA Atrim Practical Longsword about two months ago and I am feeling kind of apprehensive about the sharpness of the blade. It certainly can’t cut paper, and I’ve been having a hard time getting it to cut anything else, either.
Lemme explain my previous experiences with "sharpness" of swords. The first sword I ever had, ever, was a high carbon steel arming sword that someone got for me at a renn faire. It was made by "Starfire Swords" and it is still one damn sturdy piece of tempered goodness. But it has no edge to speak of--it was designed for blade on blade contact and has an almost rectangular cross-section. Regardless, I used it for years to abuse weeds and broken appliances and the like: I even chopped down a tree with it once despite it having no edge (Talk about abuse!). It never has complained or wavered. Naturally, I assumed that if this was a sword, I should expect the same quality from everything that was advertised as a "sword." I soon amassed a collection of useless wallhangers, always disappointed with their shoddy quality (which I could sense even before daring to use them). I got rid of them once I learned some more and got some real swords, doggonit. The first was a Cas/Hanwei Practical Katana, which has an edge that is just unreasonably, vulnerably sharp. I later picked up a Hanwei Renaissance Side Sword (lovely, but not sharp), a Windlass Pirate Captain's Hanger (arrived unsharpened) and a Cold Steel Sword Cane, among other things. I worked over the foible of the Side Sword and the entirety of the Pirate sword with an Accusharp (since they both had thin enough edges to not have too much metal sheared away) and some long hours with sandpaper and got both thin blades to the point where they slice through copy paper. That means they're sharp now, I figured.
Hence, previous to ordering an "AT304S in Antiqued Brown Finish" from SwordNation, the only sharp swords I had personally used were ones I had sharpened myself and the one lightsaber-sharp Practical Katana that came sharp from the factory. And even then, they were only “used” to carve up cardboard boxes or paper or what have you or be swung dry and then be put safely away. So after all I'd learned since then about appleseed edges, various edge geometries and general distaste for secondary bevels and all that, I prepared myself for a very different experience when the "pseudo ATrim" longsword arrived.
A different experience indeed. When the familiar big box arrived at the door and I ripped it open to behold the sword in all its glory I was quite speechless. It danced in my hands; it gleamed in the sunlight; it was every inch the definition of a SWORD. It was surprisingly light, but it could swing with authority. I could twirl it around with one hand without it feeling unwieldy in the slightest. The Antiqued Brown leather work was too beautiful for words—this was a sword that would immediately jump out at you when glancing at a collection. And best of all, the profile of the sword swooped smoothly down across the blade until suddenly there was an edge. No secondary bevel whatsoever. It seemed damn near perfect. I want to make it absolutely clear how very much I admire this sword and am proud to call it my own, and that the rest of my story is not a complaint, but a rather drawn out question or plea for more information.
So after all this drooling over aesthetics and handling I decided to try a quasi-standard test for sharpness. I took the shipping statement and attempted to cut the paper. Huh. Not so much. It was as if the blade “wanted” to cut the paper at first, but then just ended up creasing it crisply. Several attempts, similar results. I was able to force it through some thicker stock paper, but the wound left in the sheet was more of a tear than a slice. Strange. But since I knew of ShooterMike’s criteria for “sword sharp,” I assumed this thing simply had to be swung through the air before it could become a real cutting machine. Fair enough, but not something I was likely to do with it any time soon. Besides, when I took it out for more dry handling to test point control and thrusting one-handed, I instinctively reached up at one point to finger the guard and cheat the POB a little and it filleted a layer off my finger. It was a very clean cut, and so shallow that there was no bleeding at all or a “wound” to speak of, but a very thin sheet of me clearly had stayed on the edge when I took my hand away. Evidently it could cut, so I cleaned it quickly, oiled it and put it safely away, feeling impressed and a little frightened, but confident this thing could probably out-cut anything else I had, if I were the sort of person who did backyard cutting.
Weeks passed. Working only on weekends, getting into shenanigans most evenings. Nothin’ to do most weekdays but sleep off questionable decisions from the night before. Summer. One day I was buying toothpaste and deodorant at Walgreens when I noticed they had pool noodles on sale. “Pool noodles,” I said. “Ha!” The cashier gave me an odd look. But I didn’t care, because I was in the middle of an epiphany. I’m on vacation, right? I can do whatever I damn well please in my own backyard, right? I have swords, right? Isn’t the whole reason I got into buying “real” ones the fact that they can actually be used, instead of just fantasized about in nerdy daydreams about defending Osgiliath from hordes of Uruk-Hai? Do I really wanna break this ten only buying some toiletries? Screw it; it’s time to man up, bust out the blades, and cut some crap!
I snatched up some florescent tubular pieces of foam and, after wrestling them into my car, sped home with my mind buzzing. Why had I been so chicken to cut things before? I’ve done loads of stage fighting and fencing, so I knew how to maneuver a blade around without putting myself in too much danger. I’d played competitive tennis for years, so I understood the basic mechanics of getting a swing up to speed without losing control of my balance or footing or trying to “muscle” the swing. Why not? Maybe I was afraid of not being good at it. To hell with that.
Whatever. Long story short, (too late) I threw together a stand from an old POS low plastic lawn furniture table and some scrap wood, put the dogs inside, raided the recycling for more victims, and shot my sister a text that I’d be swinging around sharp things for awhile, if I called her it meant I may or may not need a ride to the hospital soon. She said she’d appreciate it if I didn’t make her miss the end of “Daisy of Love,” but ok.
I started off slow, I guess, with a Cold Steed Bowie machete that I had sharpened, since it was only 30 bucks and I wouldn’t be heartbroken if I hurt it. I didn’t need to worry; I was able to cut the crap out of everything I had, milk jugs, pool noodle and aquafina. This was fun! I went through my swords, all of them doing pretty damn well, though I was too chicken to use the katana against anything water-filled, blah, blah, blah.
Then I brought out the new kid. The longsword. The popular jock. The professional. I started out with a milk jug, which it went right through, but seriously, what sword CAN’T cut a milk jug. Not a real test. I moved on to the pool noodle. Sad news. For the most part, it just batted it away. I put some semi-impressive cuts in it, but not once did it go all the way through. I tried putting more draw in, upping the pace, trying different angles, but couldn’t seem to do it. I warily moved on to the water bottle. I checked the COP, aimed a bit farther out and took a relaxed, efficient swing. The bottle went sailing across the yard like a baseball. Great. It was bleeding from a gash when I retrieved it, but still very much in one piece. I put a new one up and thought, “cleaner and speedier this time…” I swung briskly and deliberately, getting the blade up to a respectable pace in a standard path diagonally downward. Water went everywhere and I felt a huge jarring vibration at impact. In the aftermath I saw the bottle was clearly severed in two, but the cut was jagged, more like a tear or as if the bottle had exploded from all of the energy transferred to it in the blow. The sword seemed fine, but I was shaken. I was done with cutting for that day.
So what’s the deal? Yea, I understand it was my first time cutting. Yea, I understand I probably don’t have perfect edge alignment. Yea, I understand the swords I could successfully cut with were very different from this one. But, But…..
It doesn’t really cut things. It bites. It bludgeons. But it doesn’t cut much. I even took some of the discarded foam to see if I could cut through it like a vegetable on a cutting board, and after much effort and sawing I was finally left with a ragged cut. Meanwhile, my windlass slices right through it in one stroke. It sounds to me much like the first generation Castille when it had issues with a dullish secondary bevel, but this is clearly not the case on this sword, as it has a beautiful primary bevel and nothing else.
Did I miss the boat? Is there some secret to these VA practicals that I’m missing? Was I spoiled with the Hanwei katana edge from the beginning? Am I expecting too much in an edge? Did I get an unfinished blade? Does it only work on human flesh, like the first day I handled it?
It’s a beautiful sword, and I love it dearly, but I would not describe it as “very sharp,” “scary sharp,” “HOLY CRAP sharp,” or “wicked sharp” as others have. It’s definitely not a blunt, though. I certainly wouldn’t want one swung at me.
Do any other 304S longsword owners have blades that CAN cut paper? Is mine out of the ordinary? Do I (as I suspect) just need to spend more time learning how to use it, since the blade is not forgiving of errors in form? Any feedback would be greatly appreciated. This is an awesome sword, but I'd like to be sure whether I should expect it to be more awesome than it is already.
O, yea, and thanks for letting me join the forum. Big "Hi" to everyone.
Alright. I've been familiar with and eternally thankful for SBG for years, and I've been viewing the discussion forum for 5 months or so, but I haven't made an account and said anything until now. For three reasons:
1. The people here are so knowledgeable and experienced that there are few things I could contribute that wouldn't be said much better by the other mild-mannered forumites.
2. I don't have a digital camera or a video camera, so my own insatiable need to wanna SEE more and more of swords so I can nitpick and analyze would make any reviews by me horrendous and hypocritical.
3. I... (hangs head in shame) had never done any cutting with my swords. Until last week! More on that in a sec. I'm at school most months of the year and my university doesn't approve of swinging big bladed weapons for some reason. I didn't think I could really "join the SBG crew" if my blades had never done anything but sit and look pretty.
But after a recent adventure I feel as if you all are the best resource to quell my anxiety. In a nutshell, I purchased a VA Atrim Practical Longsword about two months ago and I am feeling kind of apprehensive about the sharpness of the blade. It certainly can’t cut paper, and I’ve been having a hard time getting it to cut anything else, either.
Lemme explain my previous experiences with "sharpness" of swords. The first sword I ever had, ever, was a high carbon steel arming sword that someone got for me at a renn faire. It was made by "Starfire Swords" and it is still one damn sturdy piece of tempered goodness. But it has no edge to speak of--it was designed for blade on blade contact and has an almost rectangular cross-section. Regardless, I used it for years to abuse weeds and broken appliances and the like: I even chopped down a tree with it once despite it having no edge (Talk about abuse!). It never has complained or wavered. Naturally, I assumed that if this was a sword, I should expect the same quality from everything that was advertised as a "sword." I soon amassed a collection of useless wallhangers, always disappointed with their shoddy quality (which I could sense even before daring to use them). I got rid of them once I learned some more and got some real swords, doggonit. The first was a Cas/Hanwei Practical Katana, which has an edge that is just unreasonably, vulnerably sharp. I later picked up a Hanwei Renaissance Side Sword (lovely, but not sharp), a Windlass Pirate Captain's Hanger (arrived unsharpened) and a Cold Steel Sword Cane, among other things. I worked over the foible of the Side Sword and the entirety of the Pirate sword with an Accusharp (since they both had thin enough edges to not have too much metal sheared away) and some long hours with sandpaper and got both thin blades to the point where they slice through copy paper. That means they're sharp now, I figured.
Hence, previous to ordering an "AT304S in Antiqued Brown Finish" from SwordNation, the only sharp swords I had personally used were ones I had sharpened myself and the one lightsaber-sharp Practical Katana that came sharp from the factory. And even then, they were only “used” to carve up cardboard boxes or paper or what have you or be swung dry and then be put safely away. So after all I'd learned since then about appleseed edges, various edge geometries and general distaste for secondary bevels and all that, I prepared myself for a very different experience when the "pseudo ATrim" longsword arrived.
A different experience indeed. When the familiar big box arrived at the door and I ripped it open to behold the sword in all its glory I was quite speechless. It danced in my hands; it gleamed in the sunlight; it was every inch the definition of a SWORD. It was surprisingly light, but it could swing with authority. I could twirl it around with one hand without it feeling unwieldy in the slightest. The Antiqued Brown leather work was too beautiful for words—this was a sword that would immediately jump out at you when glancing at a collection. And best of all, the profile of the sword swooped smoothly down across the blade until suddenly there was an edge. No secondary bevel whatsoever. It seemed damn near perfect. I want to make it absolutely clear how very much I admire this sword and am proud to call it my own, and that the rest of my story is not a complaint, but a rather drawn out question or plea for more information.
So after all this drooling over aesthetics and handling I decided to try a quasi-standard test for sharpness. I took the shipping statement and attempted to cut the paper. Huh. Not so much. It was as if the blade “wanted” to cut the paper at first, but then just ended up creasing it crisply. Several attempts, similar results. I was able to force it through some thicker stock paper, but the wound left in the sheet was more of a tear than a slice. Strange. But since I knew of ShooterMike’s criteria for “sword sharp,” I assumed this thing simply had to be swung through the air before it could become a real cutting machine. Fair enough, but not something I was likely to do with it any time soon. Besides, when I took it out for more dry handling to test point control and thrusting one-handed, I instinctively reached up at one point to finger the guard and cheat the POB a little and it filleted a layer off my finger. It was a very clean cut, and so shallow that there was no bleeding at all or a “wound” to speak of, but a very thin sheet of me clearly had stayed on the edge when I took my hand away. Evidently it could cut, so I cleaned it quickly, oiled it and put it safely away, feeling impressed and a little frightened, but confident this thing could probably out-cut anything else I had, if I were the sort of person who did backyard cutting.
Weeks passed. Working only on weekends, getting into shenanigans most evenings. Nothin’ to do most weekdays but sleep off questionable decisions from the night before. Summer. One day I was buying toothpaste and deodorant at Walgreens when I noticed they had pool noodles on sale. “Pool noodles,” I said. “Ha!” The cashier gave me an odd look. But I didn’t care, because I was in the middle of an epiphany. I’m on vacation, right? I can do whatever I damn well please in my own backyard, right? I have swords, right? Isn’t the whole reason I got into buying “real” ones the fact that they can actually be used, instead of just fantasized about in nerdy daydreams about defending Osgiliath from hordes of Uruk-Hai? Do I really wanna break this ten only buying some toiletries? Screw it; it’s time to man up, bust out the blades, and cut some crap!
I snatched up some florescent tubular pieces of foam and, after wrestling them into my car, sped home with my mind buzzing. Why had I been so chicken to cut things before? I’ve done loads of stage fighting and fencing, so I knew how to maneuver a blade around without putting myself in too much danger. I’d played competitive tennis for years, so I understood the basic mechanics of getting a swing up to speed without losing control of my balance or footing or trying to “muscle” the swing. Why not? Maybe I was afraid of not being good at it. To hell with that.
Whatever. Long story short, (too late) I threw together a stand from an old POS low plastic lawn furniture table and some scrap wood, put the dogs inside, raided the recycling for more victims, and shot my sister a text that I’d be swinging around sharp things for awhile, if I called her it meant I may or may not need a ride to the hospital soon. She said she’d appreciate it if I didn’t make her miss the end of “Daisy of Love,” but ok.
I started off slow, I guess, with a Cold Steed Bowie machete that I had sharpened, since it was only 30 bucks and I wouldn’t be heartbroken if I hurt it. I didn’t need to worry; I was able to cut the crap out of everything I had, milk jugs, pool noodle and aquafina. This was fun! I went through my swords, all of them doing pretty damn well, though I was too chicken to use the katana against anything water-filled, blah, blah, blah.
Then I brought out the new kid. The longsword. The popular jock. The professional. I started out with a milk jug, which it went right through, but seriously, what sword CAN’T cut a milk jug. Not a real test. I moved on to the pool noodle. Sad news. For the most part, it just batted it away. I put some semi-impressive cuts in it, but not once did it go all the way through. I tried putting more draw in, upping the pace, trying different angles, but couldn’t seem to do it. I warily moved on to the water bottle. I checked the COP, aimed a bit farther out and took a relaxed, efficient swing. The bottle went sailing across the yard like a baseball. Great. It was bleeding from a gash when I retrieved it, but still very much in one piece. I put a new one up and thought, “cleaner and speedier this time…” I swung briskly and deliberately, getting the blade up to a respectable pace in a standard path diagonally downward. Water went everywhere and I felt a huge jarring vibration at impact. In the aftermath I saw the bottle was clearly severed in two, but the cut was jagged, more like a tear or as if the bottle had exploded from all of the energy transferred to it in the blow. The sword seemed fine, but I was shaken. I was done with cutting for that day.
So what’s the deal? Yea, I understand it was my first time cutting. Yea, I understand I probably don’t have perfect edge alignment. Yea, I understand the swords I could successfully cut with were very different from this one. But, But…..
It doesn’t really cut things. It bites. It bludgeons. But it doesn’t cut much. I even took some of the discarded foam to see if I could cut through it like a vegetable on a cutting board, and after much effort and sawing I was finally left with a ragged cut. Meanwhile, my windlass slices right through it in one stroke. It sounds to me much like the first generation Castille when it had issues with a dullish secondary bevel, but this is clearly not the case on this sword, as it has a beautiful primary bevel and nothing else.
Did I miss the boat? Is there some secret to these VA practicals that I’m missing? Was I spoiled with the Hanwei katana edge from the beginning? Am I expecting too much in an edge? Did I get an unfinished blade? Does it only work on human flesh, like the first day I handled it?
It’s a beautiful sword, and I love it dearly, but I would not describe it as “very sharp,” “scary sharp,” “HOLY CRAP sharp,” or “wicked sharp” as others have. It’s definitely not a blunt, though. I certainly wouldn’t want one swung at me.
Do any other 304S longsword owners have blades that CAN cut paper? Is mine out of the ordinary? Do I (as I suspect) just need to spend more time learning how to use it, since the blade is not forgiving of errors in form? Any feedback would be greatly appreciated. This is an awesome sword, but I'd like to be sure whether I should expect it to be more awesome than it is already.
O, yea, and thanks for letting me join the forum. Big "Hi" to everyone.