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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2009 6:32:17 GMT
I'm Australian mate, I was talking about our police, I am not sure they use batons. New South Wales police officers carry extendable batons and also use those heavy vulcanised rubber batons too. I was trained to use them as NSW Sheriff's Officer and we found them to be extremely effective. Most other police forces in Australia use them as well. bloodwraith, you don't sound very credible to me. You say that from your point of view extendable batons aren't very effective but you haven't had any extensive experience with them. If you were trained how to use them in your martial arts class and you find them not "entirely useless" then I suggust that your training has been defective or your instruction has been sub-standard.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2009 11:36:39 GMT
Korg: It doesn't really bother me whether you find me credible or not. No, no extensive experience, I've never been a cop where I had to rely on my baton with my life. The true side handled batons are extremely effective, no question, tonfa are an effective weapon. Extendable batons though, they damage the same way a whip does unless used as a weapon for hammer strikes, they seem little better than an aerial. Just my opinion.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2009 12:51:07 GMT
I will have to disagee with on the side handle batons(PR 24) I've been well trained in the use of a PR24 they are not as effective as people think they are. I gave up my PR24 after I found out a straight baton was a lot better. You will not find many police officers in the US using PR24 any more they just didn't live up to the hype.
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Post by genocideseth on Feb 7, 2009 13:02:09 GMT
I think ASP are very effective. My buddy just showed me some army moves with it. I will not say what they are, but they are scary!
He showed me this one that can paralyze a man (I am not sure if it is permanent or not). When un extended it can be used in ways similar to a kobuton. And dang... Very scary stuff. That is the only hint I will give.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2009 14:29:40 GMT
Not going to disagree that the straight baton is better, hell a rattan stick can do a great deal of damage in trained hands. The bias I have against extendable batons is my own, I would much rather use a nearly indestructible straight baton or stick or even a side handled baton than an extendable but to each his own. Personally, if I am going to rely on a baton to save my life then it would be something like this one; Monadnock grenade grip 36" riot baton. Can also be used with hanbo techniques.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2009 15:43:46 GMT
Just don't leave it on the dashbroad of your car I've got one that wrapped formthe sun doing that. Yes of course a riot baton is going to be better, what you have to remember you can carry a expandable baton with you all the time ever have it out of your reach. I love my hickory riot baton but I can't carry with me all the time. It has to stay in car until it needed. Now a days I use pepper spray more than I do any baton.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2009 20:38:23 GMT
bloodwraith, If you really think they are little better than an aerial you really have no idea what you are commenting on.
You keep presenting yourself as some type of uber-martial artist with definitive knowledge and it's pretty tiresome. It's hard to have a conversation with someone who is so sure they are constantly correct.
You've written: "I find that unless you have a military grade extendable baton the other guy is going to laugh at you while you hit him." and "No, no extensive experience, I've never been a cop where I had to rely on my baton with my life."
So which one is it?
I'm sure you're a top bloke. Please help me to want to discuss here by being a little less superior.
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Post by brotherbanzai on Feb 7, 2009 21:10:01 GMT
Hey Wraith, I wonder if you might be thinking of the flexible extendable batons? Those are sort of an el-cheapo version of the extendable baton. An ASP, once extended, is for all intents and purposes a solid steel rod. The new ones have purtier grips
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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2009 1:50:43 GMT
I'm not an uber martial artist, I apologise if I come across that way, I also wasn't trying to come across as having definitive knowledge, especially not in this case.
As I understand it there are three types of extendable baton. You have flexible, autolock and positive lock. Is ASP not just a brand? I didn't think it was a category of extendable baton? I guess what we should have done when starting this discussion was define what kind of extendable baton we were talking about. I have experience with the flexible ones and my comments have been about the flexible ones. Once again I apologise for any confusion.
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Post by genocideseth on Feb 8, 2009 1:53:06 GMT
Well, you are only human, despite what some think... Once in a while, you may type something that seems to make sense, but it doesn't for others. And other times, you type something without knowing every detail of the topic, which never ends good. I had my fair share of both.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2009 8:45:08 GMT
bloodwraith, I appreciate your apology and read that you don't intend to come across as having all the knowledge. However, I cannot understand how you can say both the following: I have plenty of training, I know the striking points on the body but I just don't find ASP's to be as good as the hype suggests. and As I understand it there are three types of extendable baton. You have flexible, autolock and positive lock. Is ASP not just a brand? I didn't think it was a category of extendable baton? I have experience with the flexible ones and my comments have been about the flexible ones. So is it that you find the ASP brand lacking but other's like Monadnock are fine? Or, did you think that any extendable baton was called an ASP? I'm not being a smart arse, I'm just trying to get my head around what appears, to me, to be a string of contradictory statements. I am genuinely interested in why you have the opinion you do.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2009 9:04:16 GMT
Korg: as embarassing as it is to admit I thought all extendable batons were called ASPs. I find that many people don't seperate them into specific brands, hense my whole "ASPs are extendable batons thing." I didn't mean to make a string of contradictory statements just a misunderstanding on my part which led to the confusion on yours. So with that said, flexible batons = bad, no experience with autlocking or positive lock, which in my opinion are, at least in Australia, considered military grade and law enforcement. I would like to try out the autolocking and positive lock now if they are better than the flex batons.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2009 9:15:27 GMT
No probs.
Thanks for clearing it up.
They are worth having a look at if you have the opportunity.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2009 11:48:01 GMT
Apparently, from what I have read, the autolock ones are the best because they combine the best of elements of both positive lock and autolocks. So what makes the positives and autolocks different to the flex ones?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2009 16:40:50 GMT
Most do call them all ASP they were the first ones to come out with them. Don't know how many times a person has told me they have a ASP baton to see it was just a cheap knock off. I didn't know any waws still making a flexiable baton (steel whip) if it what I'm think yes they are junk.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 25, 2009 18:20:25 GMT
They look good and conpact all ladies should them in there cars for night Driving .
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