Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2009 22:23:05 GMT
I've never found batons to be that impressive, I'd rather have a koga or a kubotan personally. I find that unless you have a military grade extendable baton the other guy is going to laugh at you while you hit him. Also anything useful defensively is illegal in South Australia, not that I really need a weapon, bout the most you might run into here is a bikey or an emo and we all know how emo's are with knives, more likely to cut themselves and then whine at you about how unfair life is til your head explodes! There are a couple of issues here: (1) baton effectiveness; (2) legal justification. I don't know what a military grade baton is. The ASP is civilian grade. Even the light weight versions, when used properly, will leave a lasting impression, if you know where to strike. This is a training issue. If someone armed with a knife assaults me, I'd rather have a baton/cane than a koga/kubotan. I can also employ the baton in a closed position. As far as legal justification goes, I'd rather survive the encounter with my non-lethal weapon than suffer life changing injuries that I might suffer w/o employing a force multiplier. (I don't have to let this *ssw*l* hit me and hurt me.) But then I'm a older guy and might get away with it. I also don't live in South Australia. What's a "bikey" (biker?) and an emo? (a large flightless bird?)
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2009 3:06:46 GMT
I have plenty of training, I know the striking points on the body but I just don't find ASP's to be as good as the hype suggests.
Granted I would rather have a baton (proper one not collapsible) or a cane but they are both considered weapons here and to a jury, people with certain types of training would be considered to be using lethal force.
I guess it depends on level of training in regards to a knife assault. With the right training you don't even need a weapon, a pen or a chopstick will do. A bikey is a member of a motorcycle gang and an emo is an overly emotional person with childish tendencies and a predisposition towards being an attention seeker, a hyperchondriac and a melancholic bordering on clinical depression, they also dress androgynously and mostly in black with questionable anti social tendencies. The emu is the large flightless bird and tastes good when made into sausages.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2009 3:21:58 GMT
Thank goodness bloodwraith is always here in every post to tell us how stupid we all are and how great he his. Don't worry blood I don't expect a response to this post seein as how your to busy out there walkin on water.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2009 4:23:57 GMT
What the hell is that supposed to me, facina? I'm just presenting my opinion from my experience. I'm not sure what your beef is with me but not really appropriate in open forum, if you want to have a go at me you can PM me.
|
|
|
Post by genocideseth on Jan 26, 2009 6:24:13 GMT
Thank goodness bloodwraith is always here in every post to tell us how stupid we all are and how great he his. Don't worry blood I don't expect a response to this post seein as how your to busy out there walkin on water. I miss the smite button. But not too much... Anyway. I agree it is not the most effective weapon, but I would, personally, rather be with and without...
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2009 15:39:02 GMT
Also you're welcome, I'm happy to be here. Walking on water gets boring after while and the cost of dry cleaning is horrendous.
|
|
Marc Ridgeway
Member
Retired Global Moderator
"The best cost less when you buy it the first time." - Papabear
Posts: 3,122
|
Post by Marc Ridgeway on Jan 26, 2009 16:14:45 GMT
I carried an asp in tactical situations as a Special Operations officer with the Georgia Department of Corrections... in real world force situations the asp is an effective tool at ending aggression... All that is really required is a sharp strike to the common peroneal with an asp to drop a man like a stone... A can't imagine why tool that is effective against 250 lb. resisting maximum security prisoners should be considered ineffective at all... but then I have never fougt an emu....
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2009 17:01:08 GMT
It isn't the emus you have to watch out for mate it is the cassowaries
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2009 22:44:29 GMT
I'm not entirely sure how a fairly heavy metal baton would be considered worthless as a weapon. I've been in situations before where I've had to improvise weapons an in some of those situations I've found drum sticks to be quite useful. A blow to the temple with a drumstick or a jab to the throat with said improv weapon is very effective.
Seeing as a wooden drumstick doesn't have anywhere near the mass of an ASP baton - and is still effective I'd guess that a baton like those mentioned are quite effective as weapons. Therefore I too would like to know why a baton like an ASP extendable baton would be considered useless.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2009 0:10:46 GMT
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2009 3:07:08 GMT
I've took down alot of men with my Asp baton, and before that a good old hickory baton. If you think a baton isn't efective you didn't get proper training. I'll take the longer weapon over a kubotan any day. When my ASP is closed I can use it as a large kubotan. Yes a crane has even more reach but I can carry A extendable baton on me all the time, where as I wouldn't a crane.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2009 6:02:41 GMT
I'm speaking from my own point of view guys, the point is moot in Australia anyway because we can't carry them. I am not saying they are entirely useless, but you do need a good ASP and you need good training to utilize them properly, they are much more effective for joint locks than actual striking in my experience.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2009 8:34:52 GMT
Just what is your experience there are several LEO and former LEO that have real life experience with batons and joint locks. I don't known about the rest of the LEOs but I'm very well trained.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2009 9:39:21 GMT
hit someone across the thigh with an extendable baton and watch his legs give out from under him.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2009 3:01:27 GMT
We learnt how to use them in martial arts and I have been in a few situations where I had one come easy to hand and was forced to use it. I'm not saying that I have more experience than LEO's, I just know that there is a reason our RRT in jails still use one piece batons not to mention riot controllers. The only people who carry ASP's here are security and body guards, I'm not even sure out coppers carry ASP's
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2009 4:46:14 GMT
You are wrong about that most of the police in the US carry some type of expandable baton. My ASP weights more than my hickory baton. You don't forget your ASP and leave it in the car. I would try a different martial on the use of batons have you ever tried Kali. They teach very effective batons use.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2009 8:28:22 GMT
I'm Australian mate, I was talking about our police, I am not sure they use batons. I have tried some kali but I like the principles of the art I was studying which has effective techniques as well. I do like filipino martial arts and the techniques though.
|
|
|
Post by genocideseth on Feb 7, 2009 1:27:22 GMT
*Sigh*
My Baton just broke... Why do I always have to be the example of what not to do?
Man I HATE knockoffs with a passion... And it is all dumbass retailers ever sell...
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2009 4:21:49 GMT
Sorry to hear it, maybe one of these days you'll be able to afford a good ASP.
|
|
|
Post by genocideseth on Feb 7, 2009 5:42:56 GMT
Hopefully.
|
|