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Post by shadowhowler on Jul 13, 2009 21:18:15 GMT
I just noticed a VA Celtic over at KoA anybody know anything about it? Yeah... its from the older, PRE-Sonny Suttles line from Valiant Armoury... its large, heavy, and not my cup of tea at all. Most Celtic swords are like short swords... that one is 28 inchs of blade and like 4lbs, if I remeber right. Yikes.
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Post by YlliwCir on Jul 13, 2009 21:20:04 GMT
LB, you talking about this one? It looks to be from the era afore Sonny took over. As such it's probably a sturdy enough sword but may be a bit clunky in need of some edge work. I'm just quessing as I don't have that particular sword. For myself I've never cared for that hilt design. Edit - LOL, you beat me to it, Sean.
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Post by shadowhowler on Jul 13, 2009 21:23:48 GMT
Hey Ric... KoA says the KC Celtic sword has a threaded pommel... but I have noticed that KC does not use that style much... they often bolt or rivvet things together. Since you have it, how is your pommel attached?
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Post by YlliwCir on Jul 13, 2009 23:35:07 GMT
Sean, I see no sign of a peen so I believe KOA. I suspect the same is true of the gladius. I asked about the Viking and KC confirmed it is threaded. I have taken none of these apart and don't intend to try, could be epoxied as well. I have experienced no loosness on these three, exept some very slight loosness in the brass plate of the gladius but I've abused the crap out of that one. LOL well all of em.
An interesting side note, I have the Teutonic and the Warsword, both peened. Both have some looseness in the guard (grip is still solid however), not really been a problem. Just thought I'd mention it.
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Post by shadowhowler on Jul 14, 2009 0:25:33 GMT
Sean, I see no sign of a peen so I believe KOA. I suspect the same is true of the gladius. I asked about the Viking and KC confirmed it is threaded. I have taken none of these apart and don't intend to try, could be epoxied as well. I have experienced no loosness on these three, exept some very slight loosness in the brass plate of the gladius but I've abused the crap out of that one. LOL well all of em. An interesting side note, I have the Teutonic and the Warsword, both peened. Both have some looseness in the guard (grip is still solid however), not really been a problem. Just thought I'd mention it. That is interesting... That the peened ones are the ones that show even a little looseness. I recall what you did to your KC Gladus, so I'm not surprised about the brass plate comming a bit lose. You CERTIANLY put that sword the the ringer.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2009 0:55:42 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2009 1:34:39 GMT
I'm a bit late into this thread but I'd like to say that I'm not a big fan of Ritter Steel. I had, way back when, a katana-like object and a tanto-like knife from Ritter. They were from their "leather" collection. The saya were bound in leather and the tsuka of both the katana and tanto were also bound in leather "ito". There was no same and the leather ito was hard and (I think...) lacquered. As such it made gripping the weapons very uncomfortable. The tsuba, fuchi and kashira as well as the habaki were solid brass. Nothing fancy. Really the things had so much brass on it that along with the blade (which was fairly beefy) the tanto felt as heavy in the hand as a PK from Hanwei.
Speaking of the blade - the blades of the katana and tanto were poorly made - ground from bar stock on what I would wager was a round grinder... as in the ji of the blade was hollow ground... then a secondary bevel was ground in to make the "ha" if it could be called that. The grind marks from the stock removal stage were not eliminated but instead were "polished" to a somewhat shiny appearance but were still obviously rough ground. There was no geometric yokote on the katana and they didn't try to counter polish the kissaki to give the appearance of a yokote - instead it was all the same rough grind marks along the blade.
Those same grind marks were on the entirety of the blade... mune, shinogi, ji etc... The saya also didn't fit properly on the habaki so that the saya did not secure the blades when sheathed. Tilt the weapon downward when it was sheathed and it would slide out with little to no resistance.
In the end I lost the tanto at an SCA event nearly 7 years ago (I'd sharpened the tanto on a slack belt grinder but didn't bother polishing it out because of the poor construction of the blade to begin with). I'd decided to use it as my utility camp knife and as such left it at my camp beside my fire ring. I walked away for a couple of hours to enjoy the event and returned to find the tanto gone. I felt no disappointment in the loss of the tanto - only disappointment that someone at the event (I consider most SCA players to be very kind and honest people)would see fit to steel the blade from me - when if anyone had asked for it I'd have given it away.
The katana had been given to my father for whatever steel he could glean from it. He melted it down and made a couple of knives from that metal which still exist to this day.
All in all if you're looking for a quality product I'd recommend that you look elsewhere rather than Ritter Steel - from my personal experience with their products. Of course they could have changed greatly since then and now they may be very high quality products. In any case my experience with them has kept me from purchasing anything from them in the 7 years since I last owned one of their products.
As for the Celtic Kris blade... I'm with Stevenn on this one. I thought the kris design was a Phillipino or at least originated somewhere in the South Pacific. I don't remember having ever seen historic evidence of that type of blade existing in Celtic culture... of course I'm not an expert on Celtic history so I could be severely mistaken.
Just my $.02 and as always, your mileage may vary.
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Post by shadowhowler on Jul 14, 2009 7:59:24 GMT
As for the Celtic Kris blade... I'm with Stevenn on this one. I thought the kris design was a Phillipino or at least originated somewhere in the South Pacific. I don't remember having ever seen historic evidence of that type of blade existing in Celtic culture... of course I'm not an expert on Celtic history so I could be severely mistaken. No, I think your right about the KC Celtic... I don't think it's a historicly accurite peice... but I also don't think KC came up with that look on their own. There are a lot of Celtic swords sold that look VERY much like the KC or the Ritter Steel one... which both look very similar with small hilt differences. Its more of a celtic-inspired fantasy design... but I love the look of it.
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Post by YlliwCir on Jul 14, 2009 13:28:51 GMT
I agree, Sean, about the accuracy of the KC Celtic. However it appears to me that Sam is commenting on the sword mentioned by the OP. I'm no student of history but the KC Celtic looks more like some bronze age swords I've seen.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2009 13:54:10 GMT
Yes - I was commenting on the kris blade design (as in the wavy blade design) and not a brand in particular. I had always been under the impression that that sort of blade design had originated from somewhere other than Europe. As always I could be gravely mistaken but I do know that design of blade is very prevalent in the South Pacific area, particularly the Philippines.
All my other thoughts in my previous post are directed more toward my personal experience with and personal opinions about Ritter Steel.
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Post by YlliwCir on Jul 14, 2009 14:22:01 GMT
Yeah, I think you're right about the Philippines, Sam. That sort of blade has never appealed to me personally. I also agree about the quality of Ritter Steel blades in general.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2009 16:50:47 GMT
I'm a bit late into this thread but I'd like to say that I'm not a big fan of Ritter Steel. I had, way back when, a katana-like object and a tanto-like knife from Ritter. They were from their "leather" collection. The saya were bound in leather and the tsuka of both the katana and tanto were also bound in leather "ito". There was no same and the leather ito was hard and (I think...) lacquered. As such it made gripping the weapons very uncomfortable. The tsuba, fuchi and kashira as well as the habaki were solid brass. Nothing fancy. Really the things had so much brass on it that along with the blade (which was fairly beefy) the tanto felt as heavy in the hand as a PK from Hanwei. Speaking of the blade - the blades of the katana and tanto were poorly made - ground from bar stock on what I would wager was a round grinder... as in the ji of the blade was hollow ground... then a secondary bevel was ground in to make the "ha" if it could be called that. The grind marks from the stock removal stage were not eliminated but instead were "polished" to a somewhat shiny appearance but were still obviously rough ground. There was no geometric yokote on the katana and they didn't try to counter polish the kissaki to give the appearance of a yokote - instead it was all the same rough grind marks along the blade. Those same grind marks were on the entirety of the blade... mune, shinogi, ji etc... The saya also didn't fit properly on the habaki so that the saya did not secure the blades when sheathed. Tilt the weapon downward when it was sheathed and it would slide out with little to no resistance. In the end I lost the tanto at an SCA event nearly 7 years ago (I'd sharpened the tanto on a slack belt grinder but didn't bother polishing it out because of the poor construction of the blade to begin with). I'd decided to use it as my utility camp knife and as such left it at my camp beside my fire ring. I walked away for a couple of hours to enjoy the event and returned to find the tanto gone. I felt no disappointment in the loss of the tanto - only disappointment that someone at the event (I consider most SCA players to be very kind and honest people)would see fit to steel the blade from me - when if anyone had asked for it I'd have given it away. The katana had been given to my father for whatever steel he could glean from it. He melted it down and made a couple of knives from that metal which still exist to this day. All in all if you're looking for a quality product I'd recommend that you look elsewhere rather than Ritter Steel - from my personal experience with their products. Of course they could have changed greatly since then and now they may be very high quality products. In any case my experience with them has kept me from purchasing anything from them in the 7 years since I last owned one of their products. As for the Celtic Kris blade... I'm with Stevenn on this one. I thought the kris design was a Phillipino or at least originated somewhere in the South Pacific. I don't remember having ever seen historic evidence of that type of blade existing in Celtic culture... of course I'm not an expert on Celtic history so I could be severely mistaken. Just my $.02 and as always, your mileage may vary. Thank YOU, Sam. I've looked upon that leather collection as good looking, maybe worth having- now I'm glad I didn't. I'm sorry that it was your experience, but I'm glad to learn it as it saves me, and others I'm sure, some heartache over owning such trash. Which begs the question- how the hell do they get away with it? The prices on those pieces are comparable to others that I KNOW are better made. Ok, so we know they're not authentic in any way, shape or form, but did you get to cut with them at all?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2009 16:54:23 GMT
That was a very interesting article, Luka.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2009 17:19:37 GMT
How do they get away with it? Ignorance. Not in a bad way - just that people are ignorant of their quality compared to what is available at a comparable price. Pair that with a fairly good marketing writer and you get sales.
As for cutting with the sword - I didn't cut with the katana. I was afraid to do so since I couldn't figure out how to get the tsuka off for inspection of the nakago. I figured it was a rat-tail and epoxied on. My dad just sawed the blade off at the tsuba (if you can call it that) and used the visible part of the blade.
The tanto was used to cut a variety of things, cord and rope, cardboard, paper, plastic etc. but in a utilitarian method rather than sticking it on a cutting stand and taking a swing. After re-sharpening (and essentially reshaping) the blade it cut just fine.
Like I said, this was several years ago and they could have changed their product quality since then although from the looks of what can be found on the web I doubt it.
Again your mileage may vary.
Sam
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