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Post by Deleted on Dec 24, 2008 5:57:20 GMT
I think the main issue is the actual shape of the tang.
Albion's tangs, for instance, taper all the way to the end. The slot in the pommel is thus more / \ shaped as oppose to | | shaped. This gives a far stronger stress-distribution when striking with the pommel.
By tapering all the way, they retain a rectangular cross section with is very strong on the edges, and flexes along the flat. Cheaper tangs, like welded rod, threaded rods, and thinner, less tapered tangs often end up with a parallel, uniform, squared or rounded tang where the pommel is seated. This means that edge-stress isn't distributed as well, so it's much more likely for the tang to bend one way ot the other.
If my explanation doesn't make sense, imagine two structures with the same height and identical squared base; one is a pyramid and the other is a simple tower with four parallel corner-edges. When poking the pinnacle of each, which one is more likely to topple?
I really hope that explains my point. It's 1am and I'm too busy eating eggnog icecream to think.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 24, 2008 8:04:35 GMT
HR: Manly Eater of Steaks (great name) has hit on something I think. Tapering the tang would definitely distribute stress better than a straight rectangular tang. I kinda think peened pommel , tapered tang, sandwich grip. I just think it sounds stronger myself.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 25, 2008 6:23:46 GMT
But, regardless, if I'm doing a lot of pommel attacks, I don't want it peened or compressed or screwed onto my sword. It's worked well enough so far. And even in arts that practice it, I don't think they're used "a lot". Not to mention they you're striking a target that gives, not a brick wall. The only sword I've ever seen with a completely integral pommel and guard is a Hanwei Jian. And as far as I'm aware, the Chinese didn't make much, if any, use of pommel strikes. Atleast not hammer-like, as we're referring to here. I have to disagree with you on the Chinese use of pommel strikes. At least 1 school of Kung Fu has a form that involves a great many pommel strikes. About 75/25 blade/pommel strikes. And, yes, there were a LOT of swords made with blade, tang, guard and pommel all as one piece. They weren't used by anyone who could afford a hand-forged blade, but it's cheap and easy to produce a lot of swords via casting... Thanks for the links, ShooterMike and Jak ShooterMike, +1 for Angus. I actually know him. Beautiful stuff. A little heavy for my taste, but it's tough and holds an edge. Handles well, to.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 25, 2008 7:10:48 GMT
It's worked well enough so far. And even in arts that practice it, I don't think they're used "a lot". Not to mention they you're striking a target that gives, not a brick wall. The only sword I've ever seen with a completely integral pommel and guard is a Hanwei Jian. And as far as I'm aware, the Chinese didn't make much, if any, use of pommel strikes. Atleast not hammer-like, as we're referring to here. I have to disagree with you on the Chinese use of pommel strikes. At least 1 school of Kung Fu has a form that involves a great many pommel strikes. About 75/25 blade/pommel strikes. And, yes, there were a LOT of swords made with blade, tang, guard and pommel all as one piece. They weren't used by anyone who could afford a hand-forged blade, but it's cheap and easy to produce a lot of swords via casting... I've never heard of a sword being cast beyond the Bronze Age. Care to elaborate?
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Post by Tom K. (ianflaer) on Dec 25, 2008 17:24:44 GMT
The Bujinkan dojo teaches a great deal of techniques that involve striking, binding, pulling, locking and generally harming your opponent with the tsuka (handle) and kashira (butt-cap) of katana and they don't use katana special made to withstand this use, just the normal everyday katana. well they do have a special katana that is short bladed and long handled but the tsuka is made the same as any other. I my bujinkan training I have done more with the tsuka to my opponent than with the blade. again, I think that with proper technique one doesn't need to have equipment special made to allow these techniques, one just has to realize that they can get the job done without hitting like an angry gorilla. with pommel strikes as with blade strikes one tries to attack the soft spots and tries not to chew through the armor. which brings us back to Mike's original opinion that any properly made hilt should do.
as to the cast swords, as far as I know the only time swords were cast is when there wasn't another option. as soon as forging iron was figured out that was how it was done because it was just plain old better. I'm sure there was some hangers on to the old way as there always is but in an historical time-frame they would have been fleeting.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 26, 2008 4:50:31 GMT
I really hope that explains my point. It's 1am and I'm too busy eating eggnog icecream to think. It made sense to me, but maybe it's because I'm having eggnog too!
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