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Post by Deleted on Dec 4, 2008 2:52:37 GMT
Hey` again.. Yeah I did some of the early design concepts for both films..Victor`s sword came from many ideas at the time.. I did most of my work from here in Nashville.But I did travel some also..It was Factory-X at the time.. But Factory-X has changed hands a few times sense then.. Eyal always wants to improve his swords and the new line will have peened pommels.. He does not have a lot of free time so it`s hard for him to keep up with the forums. Just drop him a line or call and he will get back to you asap.. I know what your saying about how hard some have been on DSA on other forums..I have learned sense then that some of those people were working for other sword makers at the time.. But man I don`t want to get any of that started up again.. Let`s just all get along... and slice nice.. Take care... Jason W
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Post by Deleted on Dec 4, 2008 3:39:29 GMT
Cool, which swords do you get the dagger with?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 4, 2008 4:30:29 GMT
I bought mine from the SBG store last month and got the free stiletto. I think anything in stock, you get one of those free. Not sure about other daggers though.
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Post by enkidu on Dec 4, 2008 6:10:58 GMT
I have a custom Christian Fletcher Angus Trim MM triple fullers and two KC's swords that are quite frankly incredibly good blades in all aspects, but i happen to also own a two handed gothic from Darksword which i picked up directly at Eyal's home and if i make a value for money comparaison the DSA Gothic beat them all by quite a margin. The finish of my DS Gothic is miles away from the Atrim even if CF put his hands on it ( and for a hefty price let me tell you ) and the weight is comparable to my Kris cutleries ones ( taking in account the lenght of each swords and the wonderful work Brian did on one of these ). Customer service is impeccable directly from the manufacturer ( find that somewhere else, just for fun, a lot of retailers have this kind of service, but from the forge themselves ? nah.)
And those issues regarding the fact that they copied models from lets name them : Albion... let me laught !!! Seriously, reproducing an historical model that happens to have been reproduced also by another maker isnt a crime or a steal, its called interpretation, thats all. If not then i wonder why guys like Pavel Moc havent been accused of the same... My two cents on this : Albion fanboys have not only the means but also the power in some forums out there... ( i might be completly off about this, if so please correct me on this. )
Sure you dont buy an DSA for the same reasons you buy an Atrim, an A&A or an Albion, you have to know that you'll get something else, more heavier and sturdier ( A&A have quite a good reputation in this department but they charge twice the price.. with a top notch historical accuracy may i add ) than your usual sword manufacturer, but once you know these facts and actually ( emphasis on this word ) own one of their blades you cant be disapointed.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 4, 2008 9:06:33 GMT
I have a custom Christian Fletcher Angus Trim MM triple fullers and two KC's swords that are quite frankly incredibly good blades in all aspects, but i happen to also own a two handed gothic from Darksword which i picked up directly at Eyal's home and if i make a value for money comparaison the DSA Gothic beat them all by quite a margin. The finish of my DS Gothic is miles away from the Atrim even if CF put his hands on it ( and for a hefty price let me tell you ) and the weight is comparable to my Kris cutleries ones ( taking in account the lenght of each swords and the wonderful work Brian did on one of these ). Customer service is impeccable directly from the manufacturer ( find that somewhere else, just for fun, a lot of retailers have this kind of service, but from the forge themselves ? nah.) Your DSA has better fit and finish then a CF done Atrim?!? Okay something is seriously wrong there. And if the kris cutlery comment is to be held true, all that proves is that kris cultery makes over weighted swords too. And since I'm fairly certain this isn't the case, I think your doing the math wrong. The math can't be adjusted at straight percentages for instance. Anyways what kris swords are you refering to? Umm...okay I didn't want to bring this in...but this actually IS a serious issue in our community. If DSA wanted to make a sword based on EA christensen sword...that is FINE. Nobody said they couldn't. But you have to realize that the orginal sword was a type XIV, not a XVI. Double fullered. Had 10 facets and not 8. Had no risers (at least in the image) and had a short peen block. Albion made their changes because it's just loosely based on that sword. DSA is trying recreate that blade and make the exact same changes that albion makes. Yeah I would say that is enough warrant for suspect. Now I am willing to give DSA a break and say that the blade was changed because the XVI is easier for them, the pommel because it is easier and cheaper, the higher peen block because the number of facets are smaller and the single fuller because lets face it, double fullers are more labor so more cost. The riser placement however is just a rip off from albion. A very minor detail. HOWEVER Eyal in a rant DOES admit that one of his swords was from a customer who wanted a sword made by a "local" smith that discontinued making it. Now I have no issue with Eyal making a one off for the guy. But he then put it in his line up. He basically admited that he stole another smiths work. Not really acceptable. And considering how hostile he got for simple request like a forge picture instead of the promo vid, swords gaining weight in transit, his lack of historical knoweldge (yeah look at the 100 year war sword about that), Steve's anduril's mystery metal (science says it ain't steel...wrong density and would not rust...even in bleach)...and there is a reason why most of the high end community basically shun him at this point. See I buy a sword for a purpose. If I buy a stage blunt I don't expect the same as from a training blunt as from a sharp sword. DSA of old, with the thicker edges would make good stage blunts. Now, less so. I don't like the term beater because people get these aweful swords and go, well it's okay because it's a beater. No it is NOT okay to have a sword weight 1 lb more then it should. As for their "top notch" historical accuracy...lets see...no distal taper? And if that isn't a blooming warning flag, two of their swords are based of fantasy swords...and Eyal even KNEW one was a fantasy sword to begin with. The other he had no clue it was(not sure which one of those is the bigger hit on his idea of historically accurate). And once again, look at the 100 year war sword or the crecy sword...those are NOT named properly as nether of those are what is typical of the 100 year war era weaponry. Not to mention that the 100 year war sword has either the wrong geometry for a type XII or the wrong fuller and profile for a type XVI. And as a sword based of the effigy of conrad, it utterly failed. That said...DSA does have excellent customer service. Their new swords do look very nice and the fit and finish on them seems a lot better. I'm actually kinda curious as to what their older models are like now. I found it kinda disapointing that while Odin's black knight came with very nice and tight fit and finish, their older ones like syn and buff's squires came with what I came to expect from DSA with cross guards that looked absolutely horrid in the fit department. And these swords were from the same run so if he can get ALL his swords to fit like Odin's sword that would be a big step foward. And lets face it, when your at the stage of collecting where your in this price range, all the things I mentioned are not really your concern...yet. And finally for evvard...I found listening to shootermike to be a good thing. That man knows his swords. And finally sorry about the bit of a rant...but these things do matter to some of us. And it is important to the community. I don't mean to come out like I am attack you enkidu, but it seemed like you didn't quite have the whole picture.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 4, 2008 11:12:15 GMT
I actually dont really care if one sword from one company looks similiar to another sword from someone else. I think Albion charges too much for there swords. They are not hand made like DSA, I am sure some are but the rest are made with modern machinery. The only designs that shouldnt be copied are those that are custom, anything based on a historical piece is open to interpretation.
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Post by Dave(utilityslave) on Dec 4, 2008 13:20:26 GMT
Edvvard, the link below will take you to the older info/background on the promo. It also has Eyal's contact info if you have further questions. A really good deal if you want an out of stock sword from SBG, AOV, or DSA. /index.cgi?board=europeansword&action=display&thread=905&page=1#13931
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Post by shadowhowler on Dec 4, 2008 13:27:37 GMT
...and there is a reason why most of the high end community basically shun him at this point. This right here is part of my problem. I'm aware that a lot of the 'high end' community are not fans of DSA. However, here at SBG, we are supposed to be about Sub $300 doller swords... certainly NOT the 'high end community'. The least expensive Albion sword I've seen is $130 over this price point.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 4, 2008 14:13:28 GMT
Edvvard,
Interesting post, ..... my son just asked me last evening if I would sell his DSA Medieval Knight sword for him on the internet.
I gave the sword to him as a gift his last birthday and he just doesn't care for it. Additionally, (and sadly), he attempted to sharpen the blade using an Accusharp as suggested in the SBG review of this sword. Unfortunately, it did not turn out well and the blade is currently in need of someone with the knowledge to re profile / clean up the edge, properly sharpen it with files / Stones / .... whatever, and then give the blade a good polish.
He never did cut with the sword and structure wise it is tight and solid, .............. just needs a little blade work. Would make a great project or beater sword if that is what someone is looking for.
I was thinking about asking $150 plus shipping. If you are interested PM me.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 4, 2008 15:20:01 GMT
Edvvard, Interesting post, ..... my son just asked me last evening if I would sell his DSA Medieval Knight sword for him on the internet. I gave the sword to him as a gift his last birthday and he just doesn't care for it. Additionally, (and sadly), he attempted to sharpen the blade using an Accusharp as suggested in the SBG review of this sword. Unfortunately, it did not turn out well and the blade is currently in need of someone with the knowledge to re profile / clean up the edge, properly sharpen it with files / Stones / .... whatever, and then give the blade a good polish. He never did cut with the sword and structure wise it is tight and solid, .............. just needs a little blade work. Would make a great project or beater sword if that is what someone is looking for. I was thinking about asking $150 plus shipping. If you are interested PM me. That's a really nice offer, but I don't know if I would be able to clean up the edge. If I find out anyway that I would be able to do it then we'd have ourselves a deal. Is anyone willing to help out on this situation? Just let me know how it's done
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Post by enkidu on Dec 4, 2008 15:25:36 GMT
Dont worry Cold Napalm, i really dont take it personal at all As for the finish on the CFATMMXIII compared to the DSA Gothic you would be surprised. When people say that the ATrim's have an utilitary look now i know what they mean. There's very big grind marks, little irregularities in the fullers and no polish at all ( which i already know ). That said it handles like a dream and the handle and crossguard work CF did on it is really top notch, i like this sword, but the price and the reputation doesnt make it a perfect sword. Thanks for those informations about the details, i'm still learning in this department and any information is welcome ! I read those threads a while ago and i understand your point and i agree in most of it. Damondred add something too that must be cinsidered also i think which was my initial idea. But i'm willing to reconsider my opinion there, the changes made to the original model are disturbingly familiar... And i highly doubt that any manufacturers are not highly aware of the other makers productions. Its such a little market. But i dont see any A&A fanboy ranting over the fact that Windlass made an almost exact copy of their Erbach sword interpretation. Details are not the same, i know As for the KC's i have are the Teutonic and the Viking. The Viking is very heavy, the teutonic is also on the heavy side but this one is so well balanced that you easily forget its mass. The DSA gothic has good balance also by the way...
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Post by Brendan Olszowy on Dec 4, 2008 15:36:40 GMT
That's a really nice offer, but I don't know if I would be able to clean up the edge. If I find out anyway that I would be able to do it then we'd have ourselves a deal. Is anyone willing to help out on this situation? Just let me know how it's done *Just get yourself a "2nd Cut Milling File" and some of that translucent metalworking chalk (I think it's soapstone?). *Apply some chalk to the file. *Holding the file perpendiculer to the blade (across the edge, with a hand on each side of teh edge), and at an appropriate angle you just draw the file back and forth along the edge. *Use a modicum of pressure. Every half a dozen strokes just bang the shavings out of the file and apply some more chalk to the file. Wipe the shavings of fthe blade too. Those shavings can get caught in the action and score the balde. *You can use a variety of angles to get the right secondary bevel, and smooth off the transition to the main bevel. *Then grab some 180 abrasive paper to rub out any filing marks left. Then refine the edge quickly with some 240 grit. *This will produce a surprisingly smooth and even bevel. Within an hour or so you should have two edges that Gus Trim would be proud of. *Go cut stuff up! NB: Always wear Kevlar gloves, and a respirator mask when working on blades. There, easy as pie.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 4, 2008 20:09:08 GMT
Is that all stuff a newcomer would be able to do?
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Post by Dave(utilityslave) on Dec 4, 2008 23:10:45 GMT
It's doing that stuff slow and steady that takes the newcomer right out of you. Next thing you know you'll be giving out the advice to newbie's. ;D
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Post by Brendan Olszowy on Dec 4, 2008 23:54:27 GMT
Absolutely. Anything in sword making is slow and time consuming. While you work through the job you will become very good at it. Yeah, what he said.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2008 0:16:56 GMT
So $150 is a good deal for a fixer upper?
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Post by kidcasanova on Dec 5, 2008 1:26:32 GMT
I actually dont really care if one sword from one company looks similiar to another sword from someone else. I think Albion charges too much for there swords. They are not hand made like DSA, I am sure some are but the rest are made with modern machinery. The only designs that shouldnt be copied are those that are custom, anything based on a historical piece is open to interpretation. I'm sorry but this is a terrible assumption you're making (that handmade is automatically better than machine-made). I typically don't disagree with people in my posts, as I enjoy coming here to read opinions and then formulate my own. I don't believe it's my place to tell you your opinion is wrong (too many people take that upon themselves as it is). But I do disagree with wrongly presented facts, as you have done, because it tends to give people false assumptions and leads them to buying a product not on the basis of truth and facts, but because of some ill-begotten hope that handmade is always better. While I agree that handmade swords can equal (and sometimes better) machine-made swords like Albion, they are completely custom pieces and end up costing far more than Albion charges. This is on account of the experience and extra hours of labor required to make the piece precise. Whereas, on the other hand, Albion uses a machine, not because of quality, but because it reduced labor cost, making the sword MORE affordable than it would be if it were handmade to the same specifications. Now, I'm not bashing Darksword, and I like some of their products and Eyal has been (in my experience) a very fair and friendly man. But the corners they cut to save cost and the method of construction does not put it on-par with Albion simply because it's handmade. DSA caters to a specific price-point, and in order to make their product affordable, corners must be cut. It's just how it works for EVERY manufacturer in our focal point here. So the quality of the blades, fittings and method of construction WILL suffer in order to stay in the price point. That being said I hope Eyal and DSA continue to listen to feedback and improve their products, and my post in no way is meant to offend or bash him or his company. I am merely disagreeing with your assumption in the attempt that people will learn the difference.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2008 1:27:50 GMT
$150 is a square deal if it ONLY needs a good re-edging/refinish. It would be a good introduction to sword finishing through what we call 'total immersion learning' in the military. ;D
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2008 3:40:37 GMT
I am not making assumptions about how Albion makes there swords. I know they use modern machinery because the Discovery Channel did a documentary about medievel weaponry and they showed how Albion makes there swords. If you wanna know how I know it is them even though they werent named, the symbol they etch into the blade is the EXACT same symbol on all Abion swords. It doesnt matter if you make it by hand or a machine does it for you, the fact is I just think there swords are overpriced. Dont need to get angry when someone knocks Albion off there pogo stick. Handmade swords are unique, no two swords are alike. I have nothing against either and if I like the style of an albion sword and I can afford it then sure I will still buy it. You just misunderstood my post and accused me of something I didnt intend.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2008 4:12:38 GMT
So $150 is a good deal for a fixer upper? Yes! If I wasn't broke right now, I'd take it! You will find that sharpening it your self is very rewarding.....BUY IT!!!! ..............SanMarc.
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