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Post by Matt993f.o.d on Nov 29, 2008 23:28:15 GMT
Length-6" Handle length-4" Steel-W2 Hardening-DH in oil only. Tempering-2 hours at 200 degrees C. Pale Straw oxide film. Handle-Hidden Tang, with polished boxwood slabs. Light stain and Danish oil finish. Fittings-Mild steel with black basecoat and a coat of clear laquer. Polish-1500 grit high gloss. Machine polish. SHARP- Sharpened on a special honing Jig that sets the angle to 25 degrees exactly. Ok so I wouldnt normally tackle a piece of alloy steel, but I really couldnt say no when offered a knife sized piece of W2. As you may know, not long ago I tried to make another bowie knife out of an old file, which gained some sort of funny faux-hamon in the heat treat, owing to insufficient soaking time. When given this nice piece of steel, I thought it might be providence, so set out to deliberately DH a replacement bowie. An odd choice, but I got acceptable results. I forged this stuff CAREFULLY, using JPHs guidelines for forging temperature. Drew out the hidden tang and forged the blade, polished it up and set out to heat treat. For clay I ground up a mixture of 6 parts finely ground firebrick, 5 parts fine steel filings, one part CMC compound and one part finely ground charcoal. This is near enough the same recipe from Mr Hrisoulas book, but is in quantities I was personally able to procure. I mixed this up with just enough water to get it into a paste and clayed up just the spine of the blade, nothing fancy. Quenching was in oil only. Again, nothing fancy. Although I have only polished up to 1500 grit, and HAVE NOT ETCHED the blade, the Hamon is VERY CLEAR. I hope you can make it out in the pictures. I reckon with a good etch I would look great, although it gets a bit thin near the choil cut. I'm quite proud of the handle, even though I had to use a not-quite as nice piece of boxwood as I had planned, owing to breaking the first piece. Boxwood is lovely stuff. Close grained and lovely to work with, with some great figure. I can't wait to get some more on the go. As for things that went wrong, the blade has several tiny pits owing to me being a SERIOUS SPAZ and using a forging hammer with too much of a domed face; this put deep hammer dings into the blade which were tough to remove. The butt cap also doesnt fit very well, owing to me changing its design halfway through making it! With the fittings, I don't think I will use paint again. It is too fragile. I think I will hot-blue the fittings in future.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2008 0:31:42 GMT
I WANT IT!!
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2008 0:53:33 GMT
Looks good man! Looks like you've got some serious meat holding up that edge...should be a hell of a chopper. and still cut nicely!
Cris
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2008 3:09:42 GMT
Matt very very very very VERY nice work, great job!
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Post by randomnobody on Nov 30, 2008 4:51:23 GMT
That does look incredible. Fantastic hamon. Polish that up more, eh?
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Post by Matt993f.o.d on Nov 30, 2008 12:50:32 GMT
Looks good man! Looks like you've got some serious meat holding up that edge...should be a hell of a chopper. and still cut nicely! Cris Its not actually got too much excess meatiness. I forged in a nice bit of distal taper, too. Thanks for the comments guys. Critique always welcome. ;D
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2008 15:30:09 GMT
the edge geometry looks OK, touch steep but I always made that mistake (and still do) take a picture of it in your hand Matt please.
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Post by Matt993f.o.d on Nov 30, 2008 22:07:31 GMT
the edge geometry looks OK, touch steep but I always made that mistake (and still do) take a picture of it in your hand Matt please. It is a 25 degree angled edge, formed with an angle setting jig. The angle used was recommended for "hunting and camp knives". I think it is a little steep too. The other options were 30 degrees (WAY too steep), 20 degrees (probably what I SHOULD have honed it to) or 17 degrees (too thin).
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2008 23:10:04 GMT
Looks good man! Looks like you've got some serious meat holding up that edge...should be a hell of a chopper. and still cut nicely! Cris Its not actually got too much excess meatiness. I forged in a nice bit of distal taper, too. Thanks for the comments guys. Critique always welcome. ;D I didn't say excess =). I like a lot of meat on the edge of a user knife lol. That's something I really liked about my first (happy accident!)...the tip had a nice fat edge for support and long wear, good point sharpness...and for plain cutting the back 1/2 of the edge was razor sharp. The angle you chose here seems like a perfect blend of those two extremes I had on mine =). the edge geometry looks OK, touch steep but I always made that mistake (and still do) take a picture of it in your hand Matt please. It is a 25 degree angled edge, formed with an angle setting jig. The angle used was recommended for "hunting and camp knives". I think it is a little steep too. The other options were 30 degrees (WAY too steep), 20 degrees (probably what I SHOULD have honed it to) or 17 degrees (too thin). I think the 20* would have worked too...but as I said I like it as/is. As long as it gets sharp...you're good =). Cris ~Quick Edit - Another option might be to take and blend that hard bevel into the flat a bit more (apple seed edge)...this would make it appear less abrupt, while leaving all the strength and support for the edge correct? Like I said it looks good as/is though...that just might be one way to compromise from the angle you chose to the appearance of your preferred 20* angle. C
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2008 0:13:25 GMT
It's not the steepness of the edge itself that matters so much, it's the geometry behind that edge. If I put a 25 degree edge bevel on a bar of 1/4 inch flat bar, it wouldn't cut well because of the thickness behind the edge bevel. So if your meat behind the edge bevel is too steep or thick then edge angle really doesn't matter. The meat behind your edge bevel look meaty, good for a camp knife but not for a cutter. Depends on what you want your knife to do, you want it to chop like an axe a fat geometry is fine, but it will not cut for semprini. A fine geometry however will cut very well, and if done properly will still chop well. If you want an axe make an axe, but make a knife a knife.
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Post by Matt993f.o.d on Dec 1, 2008 22:28:30 GMT
I went for an all out compromise between as many aspects as possible with this knife. Bowie knives in my opinion should represent the ultimate in a general purpose knife. As one chap on IFI said, you should be able to hunt with it, fight with it, skin with it, do camping chores with it and so on. A bowie knife should be all things to all [frontiers] men.
That is why I chose these characteristics. It is 6" long, as a compromise between a fighting knife and a camp knife. It is DH, to give a balance of flexibility and edge retaining prowess. It has distal taper, to keep it from being overly heavy. I chose a 25 degree edge to keep it sharp feeling but strong.
Do you think I have been successful to any extent? Have I made the right choices here, or am I barking up the wrong tree?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 2, 2008 1:59:37 GMT
I think you have made a very nice knife that you can with all confidence go out into the forest and do what ya got to do! I prefer to hollow grind my skinners and Bowie's, but that one you made will do the job.......Nice Hamon by the way! SanMarc.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 2, 2008 2:03:56 GMT
In addition, when I was in England back in the 80's, I was going to a Horticulture School/ farm, and I carried a bowie from Sheffield, work real well decapitating cabbage! ......SanMarc.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 2, 2008 2:55:14 GMT
I went for an all out compromise between as many aspects as possible with this knife. Bowie knives in my opinion should represent the ultimate in a general purpose knife. As one chap on IFI said, you should be able to hunt with it, fight with it, skin with it, do camping chores with it and so on. A bowie knife should be all things to all [frontiers] men. That is why I chose these characteristics. It is 6" long, as a compromise between a fighting knife and a camp knife. It is DH, to give a balance of flexibility and edge retaining prowess. It has distal taper, to keep it from being overly heavy. I chose a 25 degree edge to keep it sharp feeling but strong. Do you think I have been successful to any extent? Have I made the right choices here, or am I barking up the wrong tree? The keyword is "compromise", When you compromise one thing to gain in another, you have to remember that the original idea is compromised. A knife that does everything will never do everything the best it can, it will always be a compromise at what it can do. A knife that is a keen slicer will chop but it won't hold up for long, a knife that is a chopper will not slice well at all. Heat treat for one will not be the same for the other. So when trying to engineer a do it all knife, you end up with a knife that does it all, but does none well. You might be saying, "then if I made a knife to do one thing and do it the best, I would end up carrying 1000s of knives right?!?!?!". No, you would carry whatever knife you needed to do whatever job you are doing. If you will be hacking a path through thick brush you will bring a chopper, however if you will also be hunting you will also bring your skinner. 2 knives, doesn't sound too bad, and both will do what they do best. Going to be in a rough part of town, then of course you will bring a fighter, but you will leave the chopper and skinner at home as they will be of no use. If you look back into history you will see this, and even if you look into modern day you will see it as well. Look at a butcher shop or kitchen, the chef or butcher will often have a wide array of knives, from cleaver to paring, each has they're own job and place in the chef/butcher's arsenal, you would not peel an orange with a cleaver nor would you split bones with a paring knife. As far as bowies are concerned, the view of the do all knife is also flawed. Looking back into history again or into modern design, you will see fighting bowies with thin centered points, heavy belly thick spined choppers, and slick curved skinners all fall under the "bowie" category. I applaud the effort to make a knife that will do all things good, it is very challenging to try and wring the best performance in every aspect a knife may be asked to do! I think you have been successful in what you started out to do. There are many points of view and opinions as to what makes a knife a knife and what makes a good knife a good knife, I am just offering mine. I tried to make knives that would do everything and got frustrated when they would not do everything as good as I wanted them to, but then was given similar advice (thanks Kevin) and now make a knife with the singular intended purpose and to be designed to do that one thing the best it can and came to an epiphany .
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Post by Deleted on Dec 2, 2008 3:13:17 GMT
Very well said Sam...for sure.
That being said...I've owned a couple knives that do a few things VERY well...but Sam is 100% correct in that the farther each 'task' gets from the other...well, the worse the overall performance will be.
I'm sure you realize that though =).
Either way, the knife turned out very well (I still like the 'chopper edge'....as long as it gets sharp. Shhhh!! Don't tell Sam!), and it's one I'd be proud of for certain.
Cris
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Post by Matt993f.o.d on Dec 2, 2008 19:02:11 GMT
Thanks for that input, Sam. That is food for thought indeed. I also am in favour of knives being designed for specific purposes. You may have noticed all of my previous efforts have been quite specific, e.g. hunter, fighter, camp, craft etc. That is a very good point with regards to the bowie knife, though. For my next effort I will try to emphasize a specific purpose for the piece.
Sanmarc, I would personally have preferred a hollow grind but flat grinding is the only style I feel able to create accurately without a belt grinder. Admittedly I could form a hollow grind with my bench grinder, but I have tried many times and never been satisfied with the results. Bench grinders just arent that clever for knifemaking. Or maybe I'm not using it right, I don't know! ;D
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Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2008 1:28:21 GMT
Use A 4" angle grinder, practice on some flat stock, You'd be surprised who easy it is....SanMarc.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2008 2:15:57 GMT
Sanmarc, do you mean hollow grinding with a 4 inch angle grinder?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2008 5:00:01 GMT
Yes Sam, thats what I mean, I have found that it is easyer to hollow grind free hand.
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Post by brotherbanzai on Dec 3, 2008 22:28:58 GMT
That turned out pretty nice Matt. I would agree with you to not use paint on the fittings next time. I think the only thing I would suggest you do different is to take a little of the thickness out from behind the edge so that it has a more gradual taper from spine to edge, but that's just me. Nice work.
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