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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2008 2:29:07 GMT
Hi,
In my search, I've seen a lot of people touting their steels. Anywhere from tool steel to spring steel, etc. One person says XYZ steel is best and ABC steel is junk and vice versa, with no clear answer one which is best and which isn't.
So, I'm asking which steel is best?
I've seen 1045, 1050, 1060, 1070, 1095, 9260, 5160, Tool steel, etc.
Is there a straight answer one which is best?
Thanks
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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2008 2:51:28 GMT
Okay, so basically the 4 digit steel system is the last two number is the carbon content and the first two denotes the steel alloy type. 10xx is plain steel FYI. The different alloys have different aspects to em and what the best steel is depends on what you want. And as always, the material choice means nothing if you don't have a good process behind it. I can buy the most expensive ingredients for a meal...but if I let my friend who managed to burn rice in a rice cooker, it ain't gonna turn out well.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2008 2:56:59 GMT
I guess what I'm looking for is resillence and sharpness, as well as asthetics.
If 10xx is plain steel, what do the other two numbers mean and how does that translate to what blade you'll get?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2008 3:10:34 GMT
1045 mean it's plain steel with at least .45% carbon. 1050 is plain steel with .5% carbon min. 1060 is plain steel with .6% carbon...and this is where we start calling it high carbon steel.
As for looks...A steel looks like any other steel unless you DH it. Then you get some pretty interesting variance in the hamon...which is once again also based on techniques used and not just steel. And this all comes down to personal taste.
As for sharpness and resillence...well lets just say the process of making a sword will be much more important then steel choices. Even 1045 steel can be made into decent swords with good HT and tempering. But in general, as long as it's a high carbon steel, it's good enough and the HT is the bigger issue.
Oh and one a side note, if you forge the blade, steel of higher then .6% carbon ends up losing carbon to act more like 1060 steel while those with less gain carbon in the forging process. This of course is null and void when you use stock removal like Albion and gus does.
If I had to pick a steel I like best though, I would say 5160 for me.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2008 3:15:46 GMT
To answer your question.........NO there is not a straight answer. Because the kind of steel is at best only half of the story. the rest is who made it and how. meaning what process, etc. It seems like most people have a favorite, it is not likely to make anywhere near as much differance as who made it when talking about modern reproductions IMHO.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2008 3:21:09 GMT
Which methodology is best then and who are the best makers?
A few names keep popping up, Cheness is one, Cold Steel is another, keep seeing Musashi as well.
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Post by hotspur on Nov 27, 2008 3:21:07 GMT
Actually, anything above .3% carbon is considered hardenable and classified as high carbon.
Leave spring, high carbon and many of the "lingo" wonderfulness behind you and look behind the smoke and mirrors. Other thing sshared so far are certainly worth considerations posted.
Cheers
Hotspur; there have been some good theads somewhere, i thought even pinned at the top but maybe not
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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2008 15:46:09 GMT
None of the brands you mention would qualify for 'best'... something you may need to think about is value for money and which offer what you are looking for. One thing that would sway my decision is what the listed specifications indicate about sword handling (many seem to be excessively heavy for the type) and what reviews say about cutting performance (including durability).
Forging can lead to great swords as can stock removal. Great swords can be made out of plain carbon steels and great swords can be made out of fancy tool steels. For instance Albion uses 1075 while Arms & Armor uses 6150. However an important aspect of the steel is the quality of the heat treatment and I'm afraid to say that it isn't always of consistent quality in the sub 300 range.
I think what Cold Napalm meant by a good process is the quality of the work rather than the particular methodological style.
Perhaps it may be useful to select a few different swords you are interested in and get some opinions on them?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2008 16:09:31 GMT
Yeah,... that's one of those questions that will always be up for grabs.
Its like asking "what is the best kind of car to buy". You will inevitably get a different answer every time. A little bit of science, and a lot of opinion.
They all have their plus & minus sides, and depending on the application some are better suited for a task than others.
Sorry but, that question could never be answered.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2008 16:29:35 GMT
Jim is right, not a question which could be answered as a FACT, but it can be answered as an opinion.
My personal favorite is the plain carbon steels 10XX, but mainly 1075 is my all time fav.
IMHO, the medium carbon steels like 1045 will make an OK sword, but nothing better than a heavy beater. Things only get better as you go up in carbon though (to a certain point of course). A high carbon steel like 1095 or W1 or W2 as far as toughness and edge holding are the cream of the crop, but require a good bit more skill to bring out the best in them than 1080 or 1075.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2008 16:40:37 GMT
Which methodology is best then and who are the best makers? A few names keep popping up, Cheness is one, Cold Steel is another, keep seeing Musashi as well. DYNASTY FORGE
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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2008 17:09:12 GMT
Yeah I'd stay away from Cold Steel. Musashi is a good low-end manufacturer but if you're looking for "the best" they're not the ones. Dynasty Forge, mid to high end Hanwei, Bugei... and others are much better but also much more expensive.
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Post by Tom K. (ianflaer) on Nov 28, 2008 1:39:55 GMT
chrismc410, I think the question now becomes what do you want and what is your budget? answer these question:
What type of sword do you want? (I assume katana based on your previous posts)
How do you want to use this sword? (look at it only, very light use such as forms or swinging at empty air, light cutting of water bottles/milk jugs, cutting of bottles mats and other medium targets, heavy/abusive cutting of things like thick yellow bamboo, trees, boards, OR metal (NOT adviseable)
what is your budget?
what sort of specific characteristics would you want and at what priority? (does it HAVE to have a real hamon? MUST it be light and fast? would you prefer with or without bo-hi?
how much experience do you have with sword use?
this will help us help you.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 28, 2008 4:20:51 GMT
Budget, no more than $500 maximum. Has to be resillient and strong. I have some experience in usage. Utility means more to me than cosmetics.
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