|
Post by ragebot on May 16, 2024 2:36:53 GMT
So I went to Kult of Athena and first looked at some LK Chen stuff which got some good reviews on Youtube. One of the Youtube reviews mentioned that the Saxony German Rapier always seemed to be out of stock which was true, in fact most of the rapiers I looked at were out of stock, hell more stuff than I expected was out of stock there. So in general what rapiers do you smart guys suggest for around five hundred bucks more or less (less is better). One of the big pros for the LK Chen Saxony German Rapier was it seems to have more of an industrial strength blade which is suppose to result in a better and more durable cutter. This will not be a wall hanger but something I will actively be cutting water filled plastic bottles and pool noodles.
|
|
AndiTheBarvarian
Member
"Lord of the Memes"
Bavarianbarbarian - Semper Semprini
Posts: 10,124
|
Post by AndiTheBarvarian on May 16, 2024 4:54:06 GMT
If it can really cut it's a sidesword, not a rapier. My Hanwei Cup Hilt/Taza rapier is a really good rapier, not heavy, the mass in the stable blade, not just in a heavy hilt like many other cheaper rapiers. But I wouldn't cut bottles with it, it's a thruster and should only cut flesh. My Hanwei (oops Kingston Arms) Renaissance Sidesword is a good cut and thrust sidesword.
|
|
|
Post by mrstabby on May 16, 2024 8:11:32 GMT
Looks like the new Windlass Battlecry rapier is pretty nice as well. On cutting though, the most rapier-esque blade that is a good cutter is the LK Munich Town sword, all others are primarily thrusting weapons, you might be able to cut very light targets, thin bottles, but on thicker bottles (like 1l carbonated drinks bottles, cola for example) it won't go as well. The blade is relatively light and a thick diamond shape, both not conducive to cutting, not saying it isn't possible, but the rapier is not designed for this kind of work. You would need to give it a razor edge for sure, and the LK Chen come sharp but not that sharp. Shad has a video on a similar style rapier, and most bottles just get exploded and you can see a lot of shock going into the blade.
|
|
|
Post by nddave on May 16, 2024 8:55:18 GMT
Yea the new Espada Ropera is a really nice Rapier especially for under $400. But it's not what I'd call a Cutter. One nice one I also reviewed is the Windlass Musketeer. Little more parallel and slightly wider than the Espada Ropera. Our resident cut master @akidoka did a creat video with one cutting tatami. Its one of the videos that gave me confidence in buying mine. Here's some links to all three videos, my two reviews and his cutting session,
The real cool thing about the Musketeer is, due to it being a Bilbao style Rapier hilt is, it is ambidextrous. So whether your left or right handed its usable in either hand!
|
|
AndiTheBarvarian
Member
"Lord of the Memes"
Bavarianbarbarian - Semper Semprini
Posts: 10,124
|
Post by AndiTheBarvarian on May 16, 2024 10:17:40 GMT
I bought the Musketeer not long ago hoping it would have a thrust and cut blade (with rapiers I change the sequence). But it's still a very thrust orientated blade and a very heavy hilt, that's something I don't like.
|
|
|
Post by nddave on May 16, 2024 11:54:59 GMT
I bought the Musketeer not long ago hoping it would have a thrust and cut blade (with rapiers I change the sequence). But it's still a very thrust orientated blade and a very heavy hilt, that's something I don't like. Well yea it's still a Civilian style Rapier so it's dynamic is going to be thrust oriented. But as the video shows it can cut and hold its own against a double roll tatami so that says something. I can understand what you mean with the hilt, it is pretty heavy, probably the clam shell and all the nickel plating, personally I don't find it that heavy and within the boundaries of historical originals.
|
|
|
Post by ikiosho on May 16, 2024 14:38:41 GMT
I've been looking into sideswords as well. When it's time for my next purchase - I've settled for the Kingston Arms Sidesword and getting it sharpened through KoA. If I had the budget I would definitely spring for the LK Town Guard or Del Tin Sidesword.
|
|
|
Post by shinycanoe on May 16, 2024 17:23:59 GMT
My question is can you actually base cutting ability off a video from Phillip Martin? He seems to be able to cut rolls of tatami with any blade; I would not be surprised to see a double cut from him with a piece of rebar.
|
|
|
Post by nddave on May 16, 2024 17:43:31 GMT
My question is can you actually base cutting ability off a video from Phillip Martin? He seems to be able to cut rolls of tatami with any blade; I would not be surprised to see a double cut from him with a piece of rebar. Very true lol. But as it is with most thing if one person can do it so can another! Plus expert cutter or not the fact the sword can take a double mat and still be in good shape is a testament to the blades durability and capability.
|
|
|
Post by mrstabby on May 16, 2024 18:20:56 GMT
That it can be done does not mean it's any fun, although not everyone likes the same things. I am also sure, that his swords aren't factory sharp when he does stuff like this.
Rapier cutting mechanics are a bit different, almost exclusively dependant on tip speed, the sword won't cut for you as is the case with some broader blades, that can cut bottles just by letting the blade drop.
|
|
eastman
Member
Posts: 1,357
Member is Online
|
Post by eastman on May 17, 2024 1:16:43 GMT
the Saxony is sharp and thin, which makes for a good cutter (e.g. the original LK Chen videos cutting bamboo with it). It is not as stiff as most of my other rapiers. Still excellent for the price (about 1/3 of an A&A).
|
|
|
Post by fivesidedpixels on May 18, 2024 5:55:47 GMT
I own the Saxony, and I wouldn't actually compare it to other rapiers. The sword performs cuts considerably better than you'd think (easier than some arming swords even) because of the unusually wide blade. Matt Easton has a good rundown on this one, plus cutting footage: To sum up, it's a replica of what some people define as a "military" rapier. Most people aren’t acquainted with these since manufacturers rarely produce them. These have a much beefier, broader blade than their "civilian" counterparts, while still retaining the extreme length + complex hand protection. It’s less agile for fine point control, but it gains much more cutting potential. The edge even has a hollow grind to top things off. As eastman says, it's sharp, thin, and a bit flexible. I used to think it was a bit too flexible, until I learned it was within historical parameters. Still less flex than some modern reproductions though. I’d also like to point out this is different from a sidesword. It's partially semantics, since "rapier" and "sidesword" are both nebulous categories of weapon, but we generally define the latter as swords with shorter blades and simpler hilts. I'd personally describe the Saxony as a wide-bladed rapier rather than a long-bladed sidesword. There was a huge amount of variation in the blades attached to these hilts though. Anything between broad cavalry swords and narrow dueling spikes. Oakeshott could've added a half-dozen more types if he wanted to.
|
|
AndiTheBarvarian
Member
"Lord of the Memes"
Bavarianbarbarian - Semper Semprini
Posts: 10,124
|
Post by AndiTheBarvarian on May 18, 2024 6:54:11 GMT
Oakeshott distinguished ", rapier" from "reitschwert" or "sword" (not "sidesword" I admit) this way: "If you feel that you could cut off a man's arm with it, then it is a sword. If not, a rapier." In a documentary about the real d'Artagnan, a James Bond of King Louis XIV. of France, they showed both kind of types. Civilian rapiers, long thrusting blades for duels in town, and more robust military rapiers/swords for cut and thrust in battles. Nowadays bottles!
|
|
|
Post by curiomansion on May 18, 2024 8:51:34 GMT
Is the Christus Imperitat still available/a fan favorite? I've never handled one, but the buzz around it was solid before these new offerings came on the market.
|
|
|
Post by mrstabby on May 18, 2024 12:04:50 GMT
I own the Saxony, and I wouldn't actually compare it to other rapiers. The sword performs cuts considerably better than you'd think (easier than some arming swords even) because of the unusually wide blade. Matt Easton has a good rundown on this one, plus cutting footage: To sum up, it's a replica of what some people define as a "military" rapier. Most people aren’t acquainted with these since manufacturers rarely produce them. These have a much beefier, broader blade than their "civilian" counterparts, while still retaining the extreme length + complex hand protection. It’s less agile for fine point control, but it gains much more cutting potential. The edge even has a hollow grind to top things off. As eastman says, it's sharp, thin, and a bit flexible. I used to think it was a bit too flexible, until I learned it was within historical parameters. Still less flex than some modern reproductions though. I’d also like to point out this is different from a sidesword. It's partially semantics, since "rapier" and "sidesword" are both nebulous categories of weapon, but we generally define the latter as swords with shorter blades and simpler hilts. I'd personally describe the Saxony as a wide-bladed rapier rather than a long-bladed sidesword. There was a huge amount of variation in the blades attached to these hilts though. Anything between broad cavalry swords and narrow dueling spikes. Oakeshott could've added a half-dozen more types if he wanted to. In the video at 19:05 he calls that a small cut?? You can definately see the weight of the whole thing giving him trouble to stop the swing. That's what I meant, those that cut well are heavy too and won't be much fun using for extended tiime - at least for me 1,4kg/over3lbs is too much.
|
|
|
Post by nddave on May 18, 2024 16:02:06 GMT
Honestly I feel soooo blonde right now.... I swear it's the SBG Forum lol!
In all seriousness though I think a great point was made when it's was said earlier, "That it can be done does not mean it's any fun". I'd like to add that, "just because it can be done doesn't mean it should". Which is something I kinda preach a lot when talking sword types. I even mentioned it in the Espada Review. Rapier are for thrusting, swords are for cutting, Andi pointed this out too when referencing Oakeshott.
We definitely need to start thrusting competitions! Not everything should be about cutting! I blame that on the modern influence of the Japanese Sword arts lol!
|
|
eastman
Member
Posts: 1,357
Member is Online
|
Post by eastman on May 18, 2024 16:38:35 GMT
Is the Christus Imperitat still available/a fan favorite? I've never handled one, but the buzz around it was solid before these new offerings came on the market.
I also have the Windlass Christus Imperat in my collection. A year or so ago I did a comparison between the LKC Saxony, the A&A Musketeer and the Christus Imperat. The A&A won the stab test and the LKC won the sharpness tests.
The CI is a well made rapier. The CI blade is completely unsharpened, and could use some attention to make the point sharp even if the edges are untouched. The blade is stiffer than old Windlass rapiers (e.g. the flamberge rapier they made for MRL) and about the same as the oval schlager I used to duel with). There are a couple of spots inside the guard where the bars should have been rounded to make the grip more comfortable, but those effects are eliminated when wearing gloves.
It comes with a leather 'scabbard" (no wood core) but that also means the core doesn't shrink do to humidity changes.
|
|
|
Post by ragebot on May 18, 2024 22:40:04 GMT
Honestly I feel soooo blonde right now.... I swear it's the SBG Forum lol! In all seriousness though I think a great point was made when it's was said earlier, "That it can be done does not mean it's any fun". I'd like to add that, "just because it can be done doesn't mean it should". Which is something I kinda preach a lot when talking sword types. I even mentioned it in the Espada Review. Rapier are for thrusting, swords are for cutting, Andi pointed this out too when referencing Oakeshott. We definitely need to start thrusting competitions! Not everything should be about cutting! I blame that on the modern influence of the Japanese Sword arts lol! Why limit yourself, how about thrust and cut both.
|
|
|
Post by curiomansion on May 19, 2024 1:38:51 GMT
Honestly I feel soooo blonde right now.... I swear it's the SBG Forum lol! In all seriousness though I think a great point was made when it's was said earlier, "That it can be done does not mean it's any fun". I'd like to add that, "just because it can be done doesn't mean it should". Which is something I kinda preach a lot when talking sword types. I even mentioned it in the Espada Review. Rapier are for thrusting, swords are for cutting, Andi pointed this out too when referencing Oakeshott. We definitely need to start thrusting competitions! Not everything should be about cutting! I blame that on the modern influence of the Japanese Sword arts lol! Why limit yourself, how about thrust and cut both. Are you an FSU alum? What year? Also nice anamorphic shot. Looks like a 2x squeeze?
|
|
AndiTheBarvarian
Member
"Lord of the Memes"
Bavarianbarbarian - Semper Semprini
Posts: 10,124
|
Post by AndiTheBarvarian on May 19, 2024 1:40:29 GMT
I sense a question about the best thrusting dadao, kukri or shamshir!
|
|