|
Post by curiomansion on May 20, 2024 8:09:23 GMT
Apparently the wearing of super large rapiers got so bad that regulations were passed, restricting the length. It appears parts of Europe got into a "my rapier is longer than yours" social battle. As to a court sword being nothing more than a fashion accessory, I have to strongly disagree. They hold their own in skilled hands to most carriable swords and have extreme advantages if the fight starts with both weapons sheathed. I've found most practitioners who's good with geometry and disciplined about defending with the strong can hold their own against any infantry saber with a modern foil; the agility is on a whole 'nother level. Keep in mind easier to carry is a big deal, as it often also means easier to draw. Also, many rapiers were every bit as fashion focused as later smallswords were. There are some beautiful hilts that probably wouldn't last more than a few hits mounted on rapiers. In the hands of a skilled practitioner, even a court sword could be deadly, and some were very ornate. However, a huge number were junk fashion trinkets, and court swords were about the bottom of the bladed food chain. In a battle between two equally skilled opponents, the man with the long rapier would have a monstrous advantage over the court sword armed adversary. I'm not sure if you're distinguishing a court sword to a general smallsword. I'm operating under the assumption you're not. In an open fight, I'd agree. Many fights (I'd argue most) start from a draw though, at argument distance, in a crowded/constrained area. A smallsword is among the best in these conditions. The contention that the smallsword is a pure devolution and indicative of the sword being relegated to an ornamental symbol is an old one, so I get where people are coming from, but I think it's one of these history memes that just doesn't stand up to scrutiny. If you are using the term court sword to describe a subset of smallswords designed for court use, then yes most of those were overly dainty with really small blades. Though, I would point out that in the context in which those sword are found, court swords are amongst the most deadly weapons in the room (which probably doesn't have many deadly weapons in them).
|
|
|
Post by mrstabby on May 20, 2024 8:39:53 GMT
A smallsword is also easier to wear, faster to draw and they were self defense weapons, right? A small 9mm pistol is weaker, but easier to carry daily than a M1918 BAR.
|
|
izzy
Member
14 Day Ban - Politics
Posts: 418
|
Post by izzy on May 20, 2024 9:36:24 GMT
A smallsword is also easier to wear, faster to draw and they were self defense weapons, right? A small 9mm pistol is weaker, but easier to carry daily than a M1918 BAR.
Indeed. Some "small swords" fall close to the rapier category in any case, blades were often functional, and you would not want to be whip cut or stabbed by one:
Silver is weak, but pretty when polished, sometimes even better if it has not been over refined like "cheap" silver, and contains a small percentage of gold and copper, then it gits a rainbow patina not unlike shakudo if one decides not to polish at all. For sure if hit it would get damage if hit, but it would serve a function to block, after all it's still metal. A case of "functional art" and "male jewelry".
|
|
|
Post by mrstabby on May 20, 2024 10:43:55 GMT
Silver can be as hard as iron, depending on the alloy, so it will probably fare as well as a wrought iron/unhardened steel guard.
|
|
howler
Member
Posts: 5,287
Member is Online
|
Post by howler on May 20, 2024 16:48:10 GMT
In the hands of a skilled practitioner, even a court sword could be deadly, and some were very ornate. However, a huge number were junk fashion trinkets, and court swords were about the bottom of the bladed food chain. In a battle between two equally skilled opponents, the man with the long rapier would have a monstrous advantage over the court sword armed adversary. I'm not sure if you're distinguishing a court sword to a general smallsword. I'm operating under the assumption you're not. In an open fight, I'd agree. Many fights (I'd argue most) start from a draw though, at argument distance, in a crowded/constrained area. A smallsword is among the best in these conditions. The contention that the smallsword is a pure devolution and indicative of the sword being relegated to an ornamental symbol is an old one, so I get where people are coming from, but I think it's one of these history memes that just doesn't stand up to scrutiny. If you are using the term court sword to describe a subset of smallswords designed for court use, then yes most of those were overly dainty with really small blades. Though, I would point out that in the context in which those sword are found, court swords are amongst the most deadly weapons in the room (which probably doesn't have many deadly weapons in them). I am indeed talking about the subset court sword and not a smallsword, as there's a huge difference between the two. A smallsword is wicked deadly indeed, and you get a huge blade length for such a light carry weight. I have a few CS smallswords that while on the heavy side, historically, you can very well imagine how effective they would be, that pokey pokey tip moving around so fast and effortlessly.
|
|
howler
Member
Posts: 5,287
Member is Online
|
Post by howler on May 20, 2024 16:57:28 GMT
A smallsword is also easier to wear, faster to draw and they were self defense weapons, right? A small 9mm pistol is weaker, but easier to carry daily than a M1918 BAR. For the carry weight, a smallsword is hard to beat as a defensive tool, equal to a large bowie or dagger but with a roughly foot and a half blade reach advantage. And if you carry a bowie/dagger in the off hand when armed with the smallsword... ![P-)](//storage.forums.net/forum/images/smiley/pirate.png) .
|
|
LeMal
Member
Posts: 1,145
|
Post by LeMal on May 20, 2024 17:15:57 GMT
A smallsword is also easier to wear, faster to draw and they were self defense weapons, right? A small 9mm pistol is weaker, but easier to carry daily than a M1918 BAR. For the carry weight, a smallsword is hard to beat as a defensive tool, equal to a large bowie or dagger but with a roughly foot and a half blade reach advantage. And if you carry a bowie/dagger in the off hand when armed with the smallsword... P-) . Exactly! :) I have a friend who likes to focus on what he calls, in comparison to "Hema," "Early American Martial Arts", and focuses on catch wrestling, rough-and-tumble, single toothpick or bowie (including messer-like big espada ancha stuff), sabre--but definitely when going smallsword combining it w/ off-hand bowie.
|
|
|
Post by curiomansion on May 20, 2024 17:21:50 GMT
I'm not sure if you're distinguishing a court sword to a general smallsword. I'm operating under the assumption you're not. In an open fight, I'd agree. Many fights (I'd argue most) start from a draw though, at argument distance, in a crowded/constrained area. A smallsword is among the best in these conditions. The contention that the smallsword is a pure devolution and indicative of the sword being relegated to an ornamental symbol is an old one, so I get where people are coming from, but I think it's one of these history memes that just doesn't stand up to scrutiny. If you are using the term court sword to describe a subset of smallswords designed for court use, then yes most of those were overly dainty with really small blades. Though, I would point out that in the context in which those sword are found, court swords are amongst the most deadly weapons in the room (which probably doesn't have many deadly weapons in them). I am indeed talking about the subset court sword and not a smallsword, as there's a huge difference between the two. A smallsword is wicked deadly indeed, and you get a huge blade length for such a light carry weight. I have a few CS smallswords that while on the heavy side, historically, you can very well imagine how effective they would be, that pokey pokey tip moving around so fast and effortlessly. Gotcha! Then we can agree! A lot of people use the terms interchangeably so I wasn't sure. Sword terms are sticky even (often especially) in the time period from which they come.
|
|
|
Post by curiomansion on May 20, 2024 17:23:13 GMT
For the carry weight, a smallsword is hard to beat as a defensive tool, equal to a large bowie or dagger but with a roughly foot and a half blade reach advantage. And if you carry a bowie/dagger in the off hand when armed with the smallsword... ![P-)](//storage.forums.net/forum/images/smiley/pirate.png) . Exactly! ![:)](//storage.forums.net/forum/images/smiley/smiley.png) I have a friend who likes to focus on what he calls, in comparison to "Hema," "Early American Martial Arts", and focuses on catch wrestling, rough-and-tumble, single toothpick or bowie (including messer-like big espada ancha stuff), sabre--but definitely when going smallsword combining it w/ off-hand bowie. This! I'm a fan of the pistol/smallsword/bowie loadout. Haha
|
|
|
Post by curiomansion on May 20, 2024 17:29:31 GMT
ragebot Any progress on deciding what you want?
|
|