tera
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Post by tera on Mar 30, 2024 5:16:21 GMT
Knowing many production swordmakers source from the same people, and that Longquan is often the origin, I thought I'd try an experiment. This all came about from seeing people complain that Amazon is 90% "made in China" and they could get the same products for less on Ali-Express. Well, I've never used Ali-Express before, so I thought I'd look up sword parts. I found many sellers offering mostly the same things. I found almost everything drop-down sword makers offer. Some offered complete tsuka of differing quality. I found one seller that offered just about everything katana/wakizashi/tanto related, and even found a tsuka in their store whose marketing photo looked almost as good as what came on my Munetoshi Viper. Note I emphasize the marketing photo, and am suitably dubious. I missed my chance to get my Viper rewrapped by Cottontail Customs (if he'd accept it, it is a lower end sword) so I thought, why not order one and find out? But first, I messaged the seller to ask if they use real or fake same. This is where things got interesting. They told me they are fake panels by default but could be made of real same for a $10 upcharge. Wait, I asked, you can make custom tsuka? Yes they can, I was told. Neat. I shopped their whole store. I picked out the ito, fuchi, and kashira I wanted, sent them links to the products and my specified tsuka length (26cm). I asked if this could be done. They said yes. I expected them to add up all the parts costs and bill me that. They did not. The price did not change despite me selecting each component myself. A custom Tsuka, about $30 US shipped. Now, to manage expectations. This is from Ali-Express, so they could send me a bag of sawdust for all I know. Also, I know full well this "Custom" tsuka is not made to fit my sword, and may have unacceptable wood at its core, loose wrap, or any other number of problems making it unusable. That's why I thought I'd start this thread to document the adventure. For about $30, I'm willing to take the gamble. The alloy fuchi/kashira and copper menuki would have cost me that much by themselves through most other sources. So now we wait. IF this turns out solid and as well done as my Munetoshi, that's where it will live. That way, I can keep the original koshirae. If it is below the $350 sword quality, but better than my Mushashi's "shoe-string" wrapped tsuka, that's where it will live. If not acceptable, I'll still have the fittings. Also, if things go well, I'll ask the seller if they would be open to more custom work. If I'm happy and they say yes, I'll share the seller name. There may be others here with a beloved old sword that doesn't merit the cost of a professional rewrap (or is so low-level as no pro will accept it) would may also be willing to gamble $30 or so for a complete, custom themed, replacement tsuka. Sure, you can get a whole sword from a dropdown vendor for $2-300, but at around 10% of that, being able to add a customized tsuka to a production sword with decent steel would be a neat trick. Honestly, I do not have high expectations, but figured this would be fun any way it goes. You can't buy a steak dinner for that price anymore, so what the heck 🤷♂️ Update: Here is the seller I went with: m.aliexpress.com/store/1101768510
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AndiTheBarvarian
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Bavarianbarbarian - Semper Semprini
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Post by AndiTheBarvarian on Mar 30, 2024 7:02:22 GMT
Cool!
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Post by anj4de on Mar 30, 2024 9:20:34 GMT
Very interesting! Let's see what will happen... :-)
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Post by jester on Mar 30, 2024 11:10:19 GMT
Following
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Post by Sir Thorfinn on Mar 30, 2024 15:32:28 GMT
Oh neat idea!
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steveboy
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Measure twice, cut once.
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Post by steveboy on Mar 30, 2024 16:37:11 GMT
You're performing a public service. I'm very interested to see how this turns out!
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tera
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Post by tera on Mar 30, 2024 17:30:00 GMT
How the process worked so far: 1) I found the seller on Ali-Express and began messaging them through the desktop version of the website. 2) After confirming they do custom work, I selected fittings by searching their store (hoping those parts would either be on-hand or something they can easily source). 3) I relayed my wish-list to the seller via the messages chat. They replied with photos of the specific furnishings to confirm. 4) The seller created a new, unique product code and sent that link to me in the message chat. 5) I asked if 2 identical tsuka would be ok, and they said yes, so I added Quantity 2 to cart and checked out. Payment was handled via Paypal. 6) I received order confirmation via email, and there is a special confirmation box in thr seller chat with a button I can press to request changes to the order or ask questions.
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Now, first snafu. I requested very specific Koshirae that are symbolically significant to my wife and myself (as it was martial arts that first brought us together). I noticed a message this morning that they can only find one set of the fuchi/kashira I selected and asked me to choose other fittings. If I'd only ordered one, I'd never have known.
So, I wrote back asking them saying I am willing to wait a week or two for them to obtain another pair if possible. If not, please use the one set they have for one tsuka, and a different set I selected on the other.
Lesson Learned: Ask the seller to confirm their inventory before clicking "Pay now". Still, I appreciate the rapid communication for such cheap work.
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Post by Arlequin on Mar 31, 2024 1:31:50 GMT
Knowing many production swordmakers source from the same people, and that Longquan is often the origin, I thought I'd try an experiment. This all came about from seeing people complain that Amazon is 90% "made in China" and they could get the same products for less on Ali-Express. Well, I've never used Ali-Express before, so I thought I'd look up sword parts. I found many sellers offering mostly the same things. I found almost everything drop-down sword makers offer. Some offered complete tsuka of differing quality. I found one seller that offered just about everything katana/wakizashi/tanto related, and even found a tsuka in their store whose marketing photo looked almost as good as what came on my Munetoshi Viper. Note I emphasize the marketing photo, and am suitably dubious. I missed my chance to get my Viper rewrapped by Cottontail Customs (if he'd accept it, it is a lower end sword) so I thought, why not order one and find out? But first, I messaged the seller to ask if they use real or fake same. This is where things got interesting. They told me they are fake panels by default but could be made of real same for a $10 upcharge. Wait, I asked, you can make custom tsuka? Yes they can, I was told. Neat. I shopped their whole store. I picked out the ito, fuchi, and kashira I wanted, sent them links to the products and my specified tsuka length (26cm). I asked if this could be done. They said yes. I expected them to add up all the parts costs and bill me that. They did not. The price did not change despite me selecting each component myself. A custom Tsuka, about $30 US shipped. Now, to manage expectations. This is from Ali-Express, so they could send me a bag of sawdust for all I know. Also, I know full well this "Custom" tsuka is not made to fit my sword, and may have unacceptable wood at its core, loose wrap, or any other number of problems making it unusable. That's why I thought I'd start this thread to document the adventure. For about $30, I'm willing to take the gamble. The alloy fuchi/kashira and copper menuki would have cost me that much by themselves through most other sources. So now we wait. IF this turns out solid and as well done as my Munetoshi, that's where it will live. That way, I can keep the original koshirae. If it is below the $350 sword quality, but better than my Mushashi's "shoe-string" wrapped tsuka, that's where it will live. If not acceptable, I'll still have the fittings. Also, if things go well, I'll ask the seller if they would be open to more custom work. If I'm happy and they say yes, I'll share the seller name. There may be others here with a beloved old sword that doesn't merit the cost of a professional rewrap (or is so low-level as no pro will accept it) would may also be willing to gamble $30 or so for a complete, custom themed, replacement tsuka. Sure, you can get a whole sword from a dropdown vendor for $2-300, but at around 10% of that, being able to add a customized tsuka to a production sword with decent steel would be a neat trick. Honestly, I do not have high expectations, but figured this would be fun any way it goes. You can't buy a steak dinner for that price anymore, so what the heck 🤷♂️ What's the name of the seller? Might be interested.
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tera
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Posts: 1,662
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Post by tera on Mar 31, 2024 2:31:03 GMT
I'm taking the risk first and will post pictures and a review. I don't want to recommend anyone until I see the work.
Of course, this is no substitute for a proper Tsukamaki-shi, but those with that skill are few and costly. I'm hoping this is an acceptable option for the $2-500 category.
I promise to keep everyone updated. 👍
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Post by larason2 on Mar 31, 2024 3:21:21 GMT
This is a fun experiment! My wife has ordered things from Ali Express. Most of the time they make it, but average ETA is 1-3 months. She's only had to actually pay for it about 20% of the time because of shipping delays! It's a lot of the same stuff you get from the dollar store, etc. (koshirae excepted, of course! I'd love it if I could buy koshirae at the dollar store!)
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Post by blairbob on Mar 31, 2024 9:30:06 GMT
I have played around on aliexpress though I have heard it's a crapshoot when your item may actually arrive.
For awhile now, I was looking at some site on Etsy that offers wood cores, wrapped and mounted tsuka, even a few swords though its mostly tsuka and wrapped tsuka cores.
I did notice they glue the panels on top of the cores and the shaping of the cores didn't look very oval, kinda blocky so meh.
I was hoping to order a tsuka, see if it was thinner than my Musashi's, then drill the holes and use it instead. Also bc I could have that dark red ito I like.
But this would be even better if I could ask for particular fuchi, kashira and menuki (tbh, dont care about fuchi and kashira, I just want vahrja menuki).
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tera
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Post by tera on Mar 31, 2024 15:56:27 GMT
Update:
I received email confirmation through Ali-Express's system that the Tsuka have shipped, as of about 4AM EST last night. No tracking information yet available.
My honest guess is they just printed the labels so far. I only confirmed an alternative set of Fuchi/Kashira for one Tsuka around 9pm last night. Surely they didn't complete two tsuka to-order for me already.
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tera
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Post by tera on Mar 31, 2024 16:06:47 GMT
I have played around on aliexpress though I have heard it's a crapshoot when your item may actually arrive. For awhile now, I was looking at some site on Etsy that offers wood cores, wrapped and mounted tsuka, even a few swords though its mostly tsuka and wrapped tsuka cores. I did notice they glue the panels on top of the cores and the shaping of the cores didn't look very oval, kinda blocky so meh. I was hoping to order a tsuka, see if it was thinner than my Musashi's, then drill the holes and use it instead. Also bc I could have that dark red ito I like. But this would be even better if I could ask for particular fuchi, kashira and menuki (tbh, dont care about fuchi and kashira, I just want vahrja menuki). I was thinking the same for my Musashi as well. That's why I gave in and ordered 2. Maybe at least one will be functional. Coincidentally, I picked Vajra menuki myself, for personal significance reasons. Won't know if the tsuka are well shaped until I get them, which is why I'm holding off on naming the seller, but so far the communication has been faster and better than any experience with Amazon, Ebay, or Etsy. Based on their photos, I fully expect the end knots to sit very proud. It does not appear they shape the core to receive it. At this price point, I wouldn't expect that or hishigami. I didn't even ask about hishigami. Can it beat a ~$90 Musashi or nearly match a ~$350 Munetoshi? Those are my benchmarks, realistically.
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Post by blairbob on Mar 31, 2024 22:30:15 GMT
So here in the US (or basically Europe or Australia), we think $30 isn't much. I've been meaning to look up CoL in China lately anyways as I did recently for some Latin American countries and India. Hell, we scoff at $97 swords from Hanbon as a starting price which is pretty much the same from Jkoo or RyanSword and maybe more expensive or cheaper off Amazon or Ebay if selling out of China. $1000 is the average income. Imagine if you sold 10 of those out of your shop in China? Even if you have a half dozen employees or so. I mean, I knew swords could be bought cheap off alibaba, but then shipping containers and all the fees and storage adds up in China or the port city. www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/country_result.jsp?country=ChinaSo $30 here is like $90-100 there. Now add a zero for some swords. And if you were to throw out the name of something like Z-sey or Huawei, they are doing very well for each sword (though I'm sure they have middleman and shipping to deal with). And if they are selling directly out of China rather than through a middleman, that's money in their pocket.
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steveboy
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Measure twice, cut once.
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Post by steveboy on Apr 1, 2024 5:36:55 GMT
I have played around on aliexpress though I have heard it's a crapshoot when your item may actually arrive. FWIW I've been fairly happy with a few tsuba and some tanto stands I've ordered from Ali. For the most part I've intended to use them for highly customized projects, so I've been pretty forgiving, considering that I'm gonna strip a lot down and repaint. But those $8 tanto stands go for $20 here, so ... heck yeah. I do think that it takes a bit of shopping and research, though.
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tera
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Post by tera on Apr 1, 2024 17:36:40 GMT
Update:
The good news is it looks like they finished the work quickly and attempted to ship the tsuka yesterday, March 31st.
The bad news is I received the following in an Ali-Express email updating status:
"Rejected at departure Country/Region sorting center."
I've just messaged the seller thanking them for great communication and fast work, and asking if they need anything from me to help with the shipping situation.
This is snafu #2, and could not be their fault (shipping issues in/out of China are not uncommon). This is a little disappointing but the original delivery estimate was only April 14th, which would have been crazy fast.
Will update on how/if the shipping problem is resolved.
EDIT: Heard back from the seller. They said they will investigate and not to worry. My spidey senses are tingling, but we'll see.
Probably would have been smart to request a photo of the custom work prior to shipping. That way, less chance of them mailing something cheap they know customs will block and claiming the work was done and sent.
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Post by wildv on Apr 2, 2024 11:20:25 GMT
Update: The good news is it looks like they finished the work quickly and attempted to ship the tsuka yesterday, March 31st. The bad news is I received the following in an Ali-Express email updating status: "Rejected at departure Country/Region sorting center." I've just messaged the seller thanking them for great communication and fast work, and asking if they need anything from me to help with the shipping situation. This is snafu #2, and could not be their fault (shipping issues in/out of China are not uncommon). This is a little disappointing but the original delivery estimate was only April 14th, which would have been crazy fast. Will update on how/if the shipping problem is resolved. EDIT: Heard back from the seller. They said they will investigate and not to worry. My spidey senses are tingling, but we'll see. Probably would have been smart to request a photo of the custom work prior to shipping. That way, less chance of them mailing something cheap they know customs will block and claiming the work was done and sent. I order a heap from Ali as I have young nephews living with me and I get them random odd gifts. Don't worry about - "Rejected at departure Country/Region sorting center." It will be on the way or they'll re-send (if you ask) or you'll easily get a refund, no stress. You'll always see random stuff like that in their tracking, it's odd. Even when it arrives at the post office and a large box I need to goto physically pick up the Ali tracking says "Delivery attempt failed, Unable to process" or something like that and it's always there. Even when it goes through customs about half the time it says "failed to clear customs import" but a few days later it's on the way. I figure the system is automated and if it doesn't clear customs immediately you get that error. I;ve received every package that said "failed to clear." I've ordered 100's of things and only one thing has gone missing. I have once or twice now received a small yellow padded envelope with nothing in it. They do this (the seller) if they don't have stock of what you ordered but need to ship fast. I always get a refund, just make sure you take a video recording of opening the satchel, it's obvious there is nothing in it, it's just to satisfy the "Choice" shipping option ali have and the seller cannot cancel an order... Only you can which is why some sellers message you and say they don't have stock and ask you to cancel the sale, in the drop down there is even an option for "item is out of stock." Otherwise they just post nothing to you. It's a odd system, but you'll receive something I'm 90% sure of it.
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tera
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Post by tera on Apr 6, 2024 14:08:25 GMT
Update:
I gave the seller a few days to investigate, knowing they had other work to do, then messaged last night them asking for status. They told me the issue has been resolved and not to worry.
Sure enough, I've received and email from Ali-Express that the package was both accepted by the sorting facility and has now left the sorting facility. I believe the next step is for it to actually leave the country of origin, so first hurdle has been cleared.
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tera
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Post by tera on Apr 11, 2024 18:40:33 GMT
Update:
The package is showing as having cleared US Customs. Might even get it next week.
Will post pictures when I receive them, along with comparisons against my Paul Chen Iaito, Munetoshi Viper, and Musashi Bamboo.
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Zen_Hydra
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Post by Zen_Hydra on Apr 11, 2024 18:47:46 GMT
I can't wait for the "What is this...a tsuka for ants" post.
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