|
Post by CivilSavage on Mar 8, 2024 0:33:30 GMT
While I am very impressed with Evolutions product it has struck me that pricing is not even hinted at on the website. I have seen pricing as high as $5K to as low as $2500 (more recent) that people have declared or mentioned. I am curious as to why. Does anyone know why? I had spoken with the rep Jason? in the past and he provided a breakdown in pricing, but I had to ask about it. I find it strange and well...off putting. I have never seen a business model where pricing "up front" was not a thing with some rare exceptions like car dealerships.
I interested in potentially making a purchase but when looking at a minimum of $2000 + investment I would like to know on the outset what I should expect to pay.
Thanks in advance to any and all who provide intel on this curious anomaly of the sword market.
|
|
|
Post by darknovashin on Mar 8, 2024 0:37:15 GMT
Jason will assemble an itemized list of costs for you at the end of the discussion for approval prior to making the order. His goal is to get you exactly what you want/need for your intended purpose. That's partly why he insists on that conversation first as there are so many variables. Just the difference in Shibuchi vs silver or cotton Ito vs deerskin can be a couple hundred dollars in material difference. Same with any changes to one of the standard blade profiles: a single inch can affect a $200-300 change in extra labor between forging and polishing. Allot of the cost swings come from the types of fittings and steel used so prior to that there are allot of variables. It's not far off from other custom work in garments, art or armor I have had made. You might be able to give him the budget you are working with prior and then see how much you can fit into that range to streamline things?
|
|
|
Post by CivilSavage on Mar 8, 2024 0:43:08 GMT
So, to that point what is the bare bones price layout? The lowest end blade (arguably still superior in many respects to the average kat blade) which I believe is the SK3. Base Shibuichi fittings, etc. comes to ballpark what? $2500...more? I see many posted on their FB page but they appear to be pieces that incorporate features I am uninterested in (while visually striking) and more costly (i.e. silver fuchi/kashira, double silver habaki and so forth...). We are talking $3500 +++.
Case in point they have a piece on their Ebay page that they list as near $12K!!!
|
|
|
Post by toddstratton1 on Mar 8, 2024 0:43:28 GMT
There is a lot of customization that goes into the swords with increasing cost on some of those options. So I believe although it starts at 2000, or 2500 now. It can get much more expensive depending on the steel type you use, type of fittings, type of saya, etc. Some materials and options are just more labour or expensive. I got mine with extra blade length and silver fittings, with a half rayskin saya, silk wrap on handle. Extended tsuka length etc. Sgt multi purpose cutter. Ran me 3400
|
|
|
Post by CivilSavage on Mar 8, 2024 0:47:50 GMT
There is a lot of customization that goes into the swords with increasing cost on some of those options. So I believe although it starts at 2000, or 2500 now. It can get much more expensive depending on the steel type you use, type of fittings, type of saya, etc. Some materials and options are just more labour or expensive. I got mine with extra blade length and silver fittings, with a half rayskin saya, silk wrap on handle. Extended tsuka length etc. Sgt multi purpose cutter. Ran me 3400 Thank you.
|
|
|
Post by darknovashin on Mar 8, 2024 0:51:24 GMT
So, to that point what is the bare bones price layout? The lowest end blade (arguably still superior in many respects to the average kat blade) which I believe is the SK3. Base Shibuichi fittings, etc. comes to ballpark what? $2500...more? I see many posted on their FB page but they appear to be pieces that incorporate features I am uninterested in (while visually striking) and more costly (i.e. silver fuchi/kashira, double silver habaki and so forth...). We are talking $3500 +++. So, I don't it's possible to have a "base" price layout in that fashion as the definition of "base" is very broad. Are you after a pure mat cutter sized for a "standard" person or for your height? Even that will give you a couple inches of variability in blade length and therefore price. If it helps, I can DM you the prices he quoted me last year when, after buying someone else's reservation, he stretched to let me customize the final weapon to my own specs rather than the previous person. It will show the difference in silver vs shibuchi handachi fittings at least. I think you are right though, the silver alone I think takes you up into the 3500 range from my memory.
|
|
|
Post by CivilSavage on Mar 8, 2024 0:59:27 GMT
So, to that point what is the bare bones price layout? The lowest end blade (arguably still superior in many respects to the average kat blade) which I believe is the SK3. Base Shibuichi fittings, etc. comes to ballpark what? $2500...more? I see many posted on their FB page but they appear to be pieces that incorporate features I am uninterested in (while visually striking) and more costly (i.e. silver fuchi/kashira, double silver habaki and so forth...). We are talking $3500 +++. So, I don't it's possible to have a "base" price layout in that fashion as the definition of "base" is very broad. Are you after a pure mat cutter sized for a "standard" person or for your height? Even that will give you a couple inches of variability in blade length and therefore price. If it helps, I can DM you the prices he quoted me last year when, after buying someone else's reservation, he stretched to let me customize the final weapon to my own specs rather than the previous person. It will show the difference in silver vs shibuchi handachi fittings at least. I think you are right though, the silver alone I think takes you up into the 3500 range from my memory. Sent you a PM.
|
|
|
Post by CivilSavage on Mar 8, 2024 1:04:02 GMT
Additionally, my past katana's have come from Kensie/Loren Graves and more recently Feilong. Which I realize are stock production as opposed to a semi-custom if not actually custom. The only Hanwei I owned was a base model Practical kat from 20 years ago. I entertained Huawei but recent commentary is that there are problems there so that's off the table unless that changes. Other makers either lack an aesthetic appeal for me.
|
|
|
Post by larason2 on Mar 8, 2024 2:10:19 GMT
Are their base fittings actually shibuichi? that would surprise me. From what I've seen on their website, none look like shibuichi to me. At least, none of them are traditionally polished and patinated, and none of the coppers look pink enough. I think it's more likely they just use copper and brown them with liver of sulfur, or some such, but I could be mistaken. If they don't traditionally polish or patinate, I don't see the point of using shibuichi over copper anyway.
|
|
|
Post by toddstratton1 on Mar 8, 2024 3:32:48 GMT
Additionally, my past katana's have come from Kensie/Loren Graves and more recently Feilong. Which I realize are stock production as opposed to a semi-custom if not actually custom. The only Hanwei I owned was a base model Practical kat from 20 years ago. I entertained Huawei but recent commentary is that there are problems there so that's off the table unless that changes. Other makers either lack an aesthetic appeal for me. I would suggest just reaching out to Jason by email on the site and setting up time to take a call with him and talk over what exactly you are looking for and your budget range, etc. Then he can set you to the appropriate options. Just skim through the site first and get an idea of the things you like and would be interested in before taking the call or email is all.
|
|
|
Post by JH Lee on Mar 8, 2024 4:12:42 GMT
Personally, I simply cannot justify getting a sword that expensive unless it's a nihonto for collecting.
|
|
|
Post by toddstratton1 on Mar 8, 2024 4:40:36 GMT
Personally, I simply cannot justify getting a sword that expensive unless it's a nihonto for collecting. A Howard Clark sword can run you 10k. But there is quite a world of difference with a Motohara compared to the mid range budget production swords from the Chinese sword steel market. It's very noticeable in performance, feel, fit, and finish as a JSA practioner. In Japan modern day nihonto are also very expensive but it's all they are legally allowed to train with as sharps. All have to be traditionally made with tamahagane.
|
|
|
Post by JH Lee on Mar 8, 2024 5:03:59 GMT
Oh, the fit and finish are top-notch with Motohara. No doubt about that.
That said, "feel" is largely subjective and can be relative to how familiar you feel handling any specific sword.
In terms of "performance," I really wonder about that. The ability to cut through a traditional target medium like tatami or bamboo is most directly affected by the quality of the polish/edge geometry. Is Motohara doing a superior job in this regard compared to others? Just how optimized should a sword be for cutting such targets anyway? My guess is that, in the final analysis, most swords will do the same job just as well, whether you're using a high-end custom or a dojo beater. There just isn't a practical necessity for a sword to be Howard Clark bainite level of toughness to cut traditional targets or water bottles (or just air). And more subtle feedback like drag/resistance is not enough to justify the price tag, in my opinion. But hey, if you can afford the bells and whistles and it makes you happy, go for it! :)
|
|
|
Post by toddstratton1 on Mar 8, 2024 5:36:40 GMT
Oh, the fit and finish are top-notch with Motohara. No doubt about that. That said, "feel" is largely subjective and can be relative to how familiar you feel handling any specific sword. In terms of "performance," I really wonder about that. The ability to cut through a traditional target medium like tatami or bamboo is most directly affected by the quality of the polish/edge geometry. Is Motohara doing a superior job in this regard compared to others? Just how optimized should a sword be for cutting such targets anyway? My guess is that, in the final analysis, most swords will do the same job just as well, whether you're using a high-end custom or a dojo beater. There just isn't a practical necessity for a sword to be Howard Clark bainite level of toughness to cut traditional targets or water bottles (or just air). And more subtle feedback like drag/resistance is not enough to justify the price tag, in my opinion. But hey, if you can afford the bells and whistles and it makes you happy, go for it! I think on a certain level you are right and I have bias for sure. However I feel like a lot of the Chinese production swords I've seen don't hold up quite the same for the very long term, taking bends, or needing more frequent resharpening, heat treat issues on some differently hardened stuff, also the tsuka and tsuba getting loose a bit more easily , the wrap in the grip being more easily pushed around. Here is a huge thing about Motohara though, the swords have a lifetime warranty when being used as intended. So if you're a serious practioner and plan to train for a long time, you'll definitely get the value out of what you pay and it will feel worth it. As a backyard cutter though and being more casual it's certainly overkill.
|
|
|
Post by jiandao76 on Mar 8, 2024 7:54:01 GMT
I picked up a Motohara on the resale market last year for under 2600. It was new and not used. I contacted Jason about the lifetime warranty. He will recognize it for the new owner under the same requirements for the person who originally owned it.
|
|
|
Post by wildv on Mar 11, 2024 11:11:19 GMT
You will not get a new Motohara for $2500. I don't know where you heard that they more or less "start" at $3000. Just clearing up some confusion.
|
|
|
Post by samuraiguy on Mar 11, 2024 14:15:34 GMT
You will not get a new Motohara for $2500. I don't know where you heard that they more or less "start" at $3000. Just clearing up some confusion. Well, you're not wrong, but it's $2,600 so only $100 difference. I would say closer to 2,500 than 3,000. Like if I was explaining it to my wife I would say "baby, it's about $2,500" instead of "baby, it's about $3,000" hahahaha See attached image for basic sword prices.
|
|
|
Post by wildv on Mar 12, 2024 0:05:11 GMT
You will not get a new Motohara for $2500. I don't know where you heard that they more or less "start" at $3000. Just clearing up some confusion. Well, you're not wrong, but it's $2,600 so only $100 difference. I would say closer to 2,500 than 3,000. Like if I was explaining it to my wife I would say "baby, it's about $2,500" instead of "baby, it's about $3,000" hahahaha See attached image for basic sword prices. You're not wrong either, but you have to include any postage/tax into that. To be fair in the statement, not that it would affect the base price but everyone ends up adding a thing or two or changing this or that and you're realistically looking at $3000 start without going crazy on anything. Just trying to be honest about stuff so someone with EXACTLY $2500 to spend doesn't get tricked into thinking a Motohara is affordable for them. $100 can be a stretch if $2500 is the limit and already breaking the bank.
|
|
|
Post by samuraiguy on Mar 12, 2024 0:21:29 GMT
c’mon man.
|
|
|
Post by wildv on Mar 12, 2024 3:07:00 GMT
c’mon man. Sorry, it's just when I purchased my Motohara around 1-1.5 years ago, someone told me they were $2200. A few years before that I'd purchased a Citadel for the exact same price, so I figured it made sense -- manufacturing competition and all of that. But my Motohara came out to $3200 and I barely changed anything. So I was a bit annoyed I had to fork out an extra $1000.
|
|