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Post by mrstabby on Jan 27, 2024 21:06:41 GMT
I haven't watched the whole Shadiversity video, he is just too long winded for me, but is Shad right or overreacting in your opinion?
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Post by pellius on Jan 27, 2024 21:25:54 GMT
I haven’t watched the roughly two hours of video yet, but the intros seem to indicate a disagreement about swords and their various evaluations.
Those are perfectly appropriate subjects to discuss on SBG.
My understanding is that some previous YouTube criticisms of Shad were based upon his religious and personal beliefs. Whether that was the case or not, the members are reminded that respectful communications with one another on SBG are required by the Rules, and any discussions regarding religion or politics are prohibited by them (this thread seems fine so far).
Thanks.
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Post by mrstabby on Jan 27, 2024 21:33:39 GMT
Yeah, Sellsword said you should not take sword (fight) advice from someone with no training or using the wrong equipment and Shad seems to be quite offended. At least that's what I got from it.
Nothing political this time, but he mentiones the other thing. I don't want to warm up old stories, just thought it's interesting he answers with over 2h of video to under 20minutes. I am aware, that's his style, but I don't really get why this seems to have cut him so deeply.
EDIT: I am going to watch Shads stuff tomorrow. I do agree with Sellsword so far that you can't compare foam swords to steel. Might give you some insight, but you can't say it works with foam therefore it is vaiable with steel or even in a real fight. But you don't have to be a sword master to have vluable insights if done right.
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Post by nddave on Jan 28, 2024 0:13:20 GMT
I watched the videos and basically SellSwordarts started a back and forth with Shad over a video Shad did about double edged swords. SSA got a little nasty in the rebuttal video and in the comments basically calling Shad an armchair swordsman and then kinda crapped the bed when he called out all sword enthusiast youtubers who don't "fence" or basically do HEMA, stating they are not to be trusted and their content is unreliable. Which Shad in turn posted his own rebuttal.
My two cents is SSA is coming off a bit snobby and disrespectful to other creators and then in his second video basically went back and apologized for it without actually apologizing for anything. It was even more ironic, he called out fantasy and film focused enthusiasts while wearing a assassins creed/pirate/D&D Rogue looking outfit...
So really all it is, is more tradition vs unorthodox Martial Art debate. SSA would be hard pressed if say a non-traditional sword practitioner put on some gear and knocked him down a few pegs. Kinda like when you see a black belt get put down by the street fighter. In my opinion training is training be that traditional or non traditional. Never take either for granted and never underestimate either.
One more underhanded point regarding SSA is his berating of a commenter who stated he wouldn't subscribe to SSA due to SSA's behavior. SSA's response was a crude attack on the poster's Trump avatar, stating, "I wouldn't want someone with your avatar subscribing to my channel anyway."
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Post by izzy on Jan 28, 2024 1:10:49 GMT
Can't waste my data watching guys flap gums, Would it not be more entertaining if they just had a friendly duel with blunt training swords? Or would that be like Musk vs. Zuckerburg, just talk and no action? nddave Wrote: "So really all it is, is more tradition vs unorthodox Martial Art debate. SSA would be hard pressed if say a non-traditional sword practitioner put on some gear and knocked him down a few pegs. Kinda like when you see a black belt get put down by the street fighter. In my opinion training is training be that traditional or non traditional. Never take either for granted and never underestimate either." I'm not exactly a street fighter, but doing some Shotokan I did catch a Lower level black belt's high kick, held up his heel in the air, and we danced in a circle while he hopped, we both ended up laughing as we did this "dance routine" until the instructor told us to stop. Every opponent is different, and one can only be sure of himself ( or herself) once the dust has settled.
Edit: I also think I got "lucky" as some ( most?) of those Shotokan guys are deadly serious, but I got a nice one.
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Post by glendon on Jan 28, 2024 1:58:56 GMT
He lost me at "An Inviation".
Look, Youtube is monetized, and market share is market share. Attacking an established company if you are an upstart is classic capitalism, of which I approve. Here's the thing, though: Unlike almost every other market, the Internet allows one to go head-to-head with everybody; there aren't established trophic levels, and unlike video games, anime, RPGs, etc., you don't get some semblance of balance. Sorry, but the appropriate metaphor here is actual war, and this kid just got smoked. Despite his physique, panache, cat-walk panapoly and presumable skill at arms, HE CLASSICALLY EFFED UP because he FAILED TO UNDERSTAND THE FUNDAMENTALS OF THE FIELD OF BATTLE.
At the very least, he lacks self-oversight, and at worst, he isn't as bright as he would like to think he is; and now, no matter what, everybody knows it because the Internet never goes away. My guess is, in a real swordfight, if you present as a dirtbag peasant he's going to consistently under-estimate you, over-estimate himself, and if you give him an obvious opening he'll try to take it; even after it happens he's never going to believe that he just got killed by an illiterate redneck with a beer gut. Dead, says I.
Now, as to why Shad defended himself at length: Wouldn't you? Wouldn't you defend yourself if some idiot spread lies about how your company was doing shoddy work?
As an aside, its obvious the kid never worked in Academia, Sports, or the Arts: Commenting without ability is the foundation of being a critic, a sportswriter, or of mentoring a thesis.
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Post by AndiTheBarvarian on Jan 28, 2024 3:35:29 GMT
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Post by izzy on Jan 28, 2024 7:01:19 GMT
Danke for the laugh. So true and so good.
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Post by mrstabby on Jan 28, 2024 7:31:21 GMT
I think Shad might be a tad trigger happy since the whole other debacle. Seems the drama is getting a bit concentrated these days. No soap opera lovers here, ey? (me neither, but it would be called "Everybody hates Shad" in my mind) I didn't see the video they are (in hindsight) obviously quarreling about. Makes more sense now. Honestly did nt see a direct connection, and OK, it looks like Sellsword did intend some offence.
I found shads videos with the sharp swords interesting, I did know, they behave differently to blunts, but you seldon see them clash, so I can honestly say that shad can bring some information to the table.
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AJGBlack
Member
"This world will stress you like Orson Wells on the radio." -RTJ
Posts: 383
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Post by AJGBlack on Jan 28, 2024 8:24:57 GMT
All of Shad's content that I have watched gives me heavy BS flashbacks of mall-ninja masters of the 80s and 90s. My first encounter with his work was when I came across a reply video by Skallagrim RE swords a woman could use. Having studied both HEMA and JSA alongside women the premise itself rankled me and turned me off from his content. I didn't have any context for this beef beyond the first SSA video stating his opinion on practitioner vs armchair and honestly? He was a little arrogant in the way someone younger and confident can be but I took it at face value that his intentions were in the right place.
Either way, while I'll admit to being biased against Shad, I think he's blown it way out of proportion for the views.
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Post by Jussi Ekholm on Jan 28, 2024 11:05:46 GMT
Surprisingly I was watching Youtube sword videos after a long time this week, and as they are popular channels I bumped into these videos just before this thread. I have great respect for those that make youtube content as that is very difficult to be entertaining to watch. However I would totally agree on what was said about different channels making different kind of content, and viewer should be careful on what they see. Unfortunately general people wont understand the finer details on things and can easily believe everything the channel host is saying. You need to be charismatic to be popular. And I don't blame popular hosts, I believe they do try to do research on the things they are presenting. I do not believe they are spreading misinformation on purpose, however they might use sources that have incorrect information to begin with. That makes things difficult as there is so much wrong information about historical swords floating online.
Of course the presenters will do research before their videos but as many of the popular youtubers present such a wide range of subjects and push out videos at fast speed I cannot imagine them spending many months of focused research on single subject as that would greatly reduce their ability to push out videos.
I admit it is very rare for me that I can watch western youtubers videos about Japanese swords (there are few exceptions). As I have been pretty much researching historical Japanese swords for my whole life from teenager, there are often just so many incorrect things that are being said. However the few very knowledgeable guys get extremely small audience as their videos are not as exciting. I think it might be the same thing for martial arts, historical European swords etc.
As I know almost nothing about fighting with swords I can watch HEMA or JSA videos and enjoy them, not knowing there can be huge inaccuracies that I just don't know about and perhaps the youtubers does not either. Same thing with watching videos about European swords even though I know tad more about them than combat.
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Post by izzy on Jan 28, 2024 12:40:31 GMT
Surprisingly I was watching Youtube sword videos after a long time this week, and as they are popular channels I bumped into these videos just before this thread. I have great respect for those that make youtube content as that is very difficult to be entertaining to watch. However I would totally agree on what was said about different channels making different kind of content, and viewer should be careful on what they see. Unfortunately general people wont understand the finer details on things and can easily believe everything the channel host is saying. You need to be charismatic to be popular. And I don't blame popular hosts, I believe they do try to do research on the things they are presenting. I do not believe they are spreading misinformation on purpose, however they might use sources that have incorrect information to begin with. That makes things difficult as there is so much wrong information about historical swords floating online.
Of course the presenters will do research before their videos but as many of the popular youtubers present such a wide range of subjects and push out videos at fast speed I cannot imagine them spending many months of focused research on single subject as that would greatly reduce their ability to push out videos.
I admit it is very rare for me that I can watch western youtubers videos about Japanese swords (there are few exceptions). As I have been pretty much researching historical Japanese swords for my whole life from teenager, there are often just so many incorrect things that are being said. However the few very knowledgeable guys get extremely small audience as their videos are not as exciting. I think it might be the same thing for martial arts, historical European swords etc.
As I know almost nothing about fighting with swords I can watch HEMA or JSA videos and enjoy them, not knowing there can be huge inaccuracies that I just don't know about and perhaps the youtubers does not either. Same thing with watching videos about European swords even though I know tad more about them than combat.
Yes sir, There has always been misinformation, or at least writers who knew little about certain subjects they put to pen, way before the internet, Herodotus comes to mind, "Big Science" of today is another. One book or paper just uses the other as a resource, and We all fall prey to that at one time or another. Best to live learn, admit mistakes and move on.
Controversy sells, and a little rivalry will help both camps, ( and google loves this, Mo' Advertising $$).
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Post by izzy on Jan 28, 2024 12:57:10 GMT
Yeah, Sellsword said you should not take sword (fight) advice from someone with no training or using the wrong equipment and Shad seems to be quite offended. At least that's what I got from it. Nothing political this time, but he mentiones the other thing. I don't want to warm up old stories, just thought it's interesting he answers with over 2h of video to under 20minutes. I am aware, that's his style, but I don't really get why this seems to have cut him so deeply. EDIT: I am going to watch Shads stuff tomorrow. I do agree with Sellsword so far that you can't compare foam swords to steel. Might give you some insight, but you can't say it works with foam therefore it is vaiable with steel or even in a real fight. But you don't have to be a sword master to have vluable insights if done right. Off to practice with my squires ( progeny), pool noodles for swords.
After that, it's range practice with Nerf cannons.
HUAH! ( /s O-tay! )
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Post by mrstabby on Jan 28, 2024 13:16:08 GMT
Yeah, Sellsword said you should not take sword (fight) advice from someone with no training or using the wrong equipment and Shad seems to be quite offended. At least that's what I got from it. Nothing political this time, but he mentiones the other thing. I don't want to warm up old stories, just thought it's interesting he answers with over 2h of video to under 20minutes. I am aware, that's his style, but I don't really get why this seems to have cut him so deeply. EDIT: I am going to watch Shads stuff tomorrow. I do agree with Sellsword so far that you can't compare foam swords to steel. Might give you some insight, but you can't say it works with foam therefore it is vaiable with steel or even in a real fight. But you don't have to be a sword master to have vluable insights if done right. Off to practice with my squires ( progeny), pool noodles for swords.
After that, it's range practice with Nerf cannons.
HUAH! ( /s O-tay! )
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Post by izzy on Jan 28, 2024 16:19:15 GMT
Off to practice with my squires ( progeny), pool noodles for swords.
After that, it's range practice with Nerf cannons.
HUAH! ( /s O-tay! )
People do some fun stuff with nerf...can't watch vids on youtube as it eats my data...
Stabby labs came up with search / youtube link :
What a co-incidence.
"Fun stuff" to read that does not require youtube:
Here is the 12Ga from Hell:
( now known as the .700 Hubel Express)
A 730 gr. bullet in a rifled slug barrel going 2700 fps ( or more).
And here is what could have been if not for assassination and the Gulf War, from what I can tell, a further development of the V-3, but able to launch small rockets as well. If it had been made, it would have been bombed from the sky like the Osirak reactor in 1981:
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Post by nddave on Jan 28, 2024 16:52:12 GMT
Can't waste my data watching guys flap gums, Would it not be more entertaining if they just had a friendly duel with blunt training swords? Or would that be like Musk vs. Zuckerburg, just talk and no action? nddave Wrote: "So really all it is, is more tradition vs unorthodox Martial Art debate. SSA would be hard pressed if say a non-traditional sword practitioner put on some gear and knocked him down a few pegs. Kinda like when you see a black belt get put down by the street fighter. In my opinion training is training be that traditional or non traditional. Never take either for granted and never underestimate either." I'm not exactly a street fighter, but doing some Shotokan I did catch a Lower level black belt's high kick, held up his heel in the air, and we danced in a circle while he hopped, we both ended up laughing as we did this "dance routine" until the instructor told us to stop. Every opponent is different, and one can only be sure of himself ( or herself) once the dust has settled.
Edit: I also think I got "lucky" as some ( most?) of those Shotokan guys are deadly serious, but I got a nice one.
Lol, reminds me of my time in Judo as a teenager having to throw around this big (6' 200+ pound) adult who smelt like B.O. and Marijuana... unfortunately we were the only two closest in weight and size (I was 5'8" still am... and around 175) it was a learning experience, definitely learned technique over strength with that guy lol. Learned how to hold my breath too! Great guy funny and friendly but some right guard would've been appreciated! --One thing I'd like to point out in the general thread regarding the videos is, even though Shad isn't very technical or traditional with his sword reviews and demonstrations/experiments. He is historically focused (more so in past videos than recently) but has always been more focused on actual medieval culture (lifestyles, castles, science and engineering of the period, etc) than sword focused. Recently as he's gotten more popular he's blended in more fantasy pop culture into his videos and most recently had a trio him included who do tests and theory checking while still adding a flair of fantasy pop culture. He still does focus on historical aspects of medieval culture, especially with castle and architecture. Nothing really wrong with that, he has a style and people apparently enjoy his content based on his views and subscribers. I mean even other content creators have delved into other branches for example Skallgrim who does a lot of video game stuff on his channel lately. I think it's just so content stays fresh and they might too even get bored doing the same things over and over again. Like me I have a hard time just finding the time to do videos anymore with my busy professional work schedule, one of the biggest negatives I get feedback from my channel is most of my viewers want to see more cutting tests and demonstrations, and it's not that those are really hard to film, it's just finding the time and cutting targets (bottles and stuff don't grow on trees lol, plus I always feel I'm not bringing much to the table just cutting bottles when more financially accessible channels are doing ballistic gels and tatami frequently) can be more of a challenge than you would think. Also weather is always a factor. These guys do videos as a career basically where I just do them for fun like I did written reviews here for the last decade. I don't even monetize my videos because that's never been my goal to profit from reviews and probably wouldn't have even got into videos if not motivated by you guys here and a few friends and family at home. But it always lights a fire under me when I get time to post here and chat with you guys, so who knows maybe I'll go play behind the camera today! If I don't end up napping all day like I usually do on Sunday due to a 6 day work week with double shifts on Thursday and Friday lol...
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Post by chrisparkes on Jan 28, 2024 18:18:57 GMT
Content creators like to manufacture drama because it's good for the YouTube algorithm. Videos like these get more clicks, create more revenue, and perpetuate a schism between "sides" that keeps people coming back. Some of them fancy themselves "scholars of the arts" and not LARPers in doublets. The former like to take snapshots at the latter despite rarely mentioning anyone by name... which leads to things such as this.
One look at the Thumbnails tells you everything you need to know. I'm too old to get sucked into sword nerd Top Trumps.
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Post by nerdthenord on Jan 28, 2024 20:59:16 GMT
I can't stand Shad on a personal level, and I'm far too old to be wasting my time even watching these videos. I don't recommend anyone watch them since, as others have pointed out, it's designed to generate controversy and views for money.
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Post by RufusScorpius on Feb 17, 2024 15:45:55 GMT
This entire debate reminds me as to why the Romans had arenas.
Can't settle the argument? Fight it out in the arena and let the gods decide.
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Post by AndiTheBarvarian on Feb 17, 2024 16:24:12 GMT
This entire debate reminds me as to why the Romans had arenas. Can't settle the argument? Fight it out in the arena and let the gods decide. That's how Barbarians did it in a holmgang. The degenerated Romans let gladiators fight for them, mostly for show.
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