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Post by mythosequidae on Nov 14, 2008 13:06:31 GMT
The knife and razor people rely on these. I thought that it would be near to impossible to strop a Katana. Maybe a piece of leather fixed to a hand pad??? I see that Lee Valley tools sells 1"x 30" leather belts for stationary sanders. You load the leather with a fine compound. Has anybody used this on a Kat? Has anybody seen a leather belt that fits a 4" x ??" sander? Does anyone know how or if one could make such a belt? How would the but joint be done? Thanks.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 14, 2008 14:40:34 GMT
You COULD use a strop backed by something very stiff, like wood or plastic, but you have to go in 1 direction only (from spine to cutting edge). Using a Random orbital or linear power sander with a leather pad will at best round over the the cutting edge, and at worst the leather will catch on the cutting edge destroying the leather and probably the backer as well. If the edge catches and sticks you would then have a sword stuck to an electric RUNNING power tool (very bad).
I am not sure if you are considering this type of sander, so i just put this part out for general safety sake.
A stationary belt sander would work or a portable held in a vice. Traditional leather belts were sewn with flat leather stitching. but you could use contact cement. you will need to sand the strop surface lightly to make sure there is no glue on the surface. Also you might consider gluing a thin woven fabric backer behind the butt joint.
Anything that uses a back and forth or rotational pad will not be effective because of the change in direction.
A better choice MIGHT be to firmly attach a piece of leather to some kind of work surface, then strop in a tradition manner.
My thought where Katana are concerned is that stropping has been around for a very long time, yet the traditional method of "sharpening " for Katana remains unchanged.(stones) I suspect there is a reason for this. ;D
Many members here have had success using very fine grit sandpaper with a hand held block which is the method that i use to sharpen swords. The level of control is excellent.
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Post by mythosequidae on Nov 14, 2008 21:32:54 GMT
Thank you sir. Very thorough reply. I also use abrasive paper, but I am never satisfied with the degree of sharpness. I'm in no condition to use Japanese water stones... I can get them very sharp, but with burrs. When I try to remove the burrs with the paper, it becomes less sharp. Medievals are no trouble, I don't obsess about them being razor sharp, and even finish with a spiral sewn wheel and rouge. How do you move the abrasive paper? I like your plan for the large patch of leather bonded to say, a piece of glass. The butt joint execution information was good also. Thanks Steve.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 15, 2008 4:21:45 GMT
If you are stropping on a belt grinder with a leather belt, then you will be running the sword against the belt edge down, so no worries of it catching. To the point of using a leather strop, I don;t think that many if any production katana will be able to take and hold the kind of edge where a fine stropping will make a noticeable difference in the edge. but a strop can restore an edge somewhat, I won't stop you give it a try. I do all my sharpening on a belt grinder now, with maybe a final strop on a buffer with a semi stiff cotton sewn wheel, with green rouge buffing compound. Start with a 120 grit slack belt, then 220 then 400, maybe 800 or a finer finishing belt, if I had the choice I would progress in grits from 120 to 1500, then strop on the buffer with green rouge.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 15, 2008 4:45:39 GMT
When using abrasive paper with a sanding block(I prefer the hard rubber ones) use the flat side. hold the block oriented so that the long dimension of the block is pointing down the blade. long strokes down the blade with slight movement from mune to ha. I use a 3" x 5" block and start my stroke near the edge of the block, I try to end the stroke about 2/3 of the way across the block at right angles to the stroke.
BE CAREFUL as the motion you are using is exactly the same as slicing through stuff, if you slip and contact the cutting edge it can be nasty. leather gloves may help but a sharp blade will cut right through the leather and into your hands. It is deceptively easy to do. Once you get past 400 grit it will be extremely sharp the remaining grits are for appearance.
My safety recommendation is get a good nite's sleep, eat something 1st, and no booze or other recreational chemicals until after you are finished. Take your time.
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Post by Tom K. (ianflaer) on Nov 16, 2008 16:09:09 GMT
I too use sand paper. I tend to start with 400 grit and work my way up to 2000. I find that if you move the paper across the blade from mune to ha or from center ridgeline to cutting edge (for westerns) it WILL get sharper. in fact I touch up my kaze's edge with 1000 or 2000 grit paper whenever it starts to lose it's best edge. the trick is to NEVER take paper across the edge in the direction that would cut the paper as that will round off the edge.
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Post by jonessteave on Jun 13, 2024 19:11:33 GMT
The knife and razor people rely on these. I thought that it would be near to impossible to strop a Katana. Maybe a piece of leather fixed to a hand pad??? I see that Lee Valley tools sells 1"x 30" Men's Classic Belt for stationary sanders. You load the leather with a fine compound. Has anybody used this on a Kat? Has anybody seen a leather belt that fits a 4" x ??" sander? Does anyone know how or if one could make such a belt? How would the but joint be done? Thanks. Using a leather belt on a stationary sander for stropping a katana is feasible. The 1"x 30" belts from Lee Valley can work for small sections, but a wider belt is preferable. Custom leather workers might help you get a 4" wide belt. To make one, cut high-quality leather to size, use strong adhesive, and possibly stitch the joint for strength, ensuring it's smooth. Load the belt with fine compound for best results. Alternatively, a leather strop on a hand pad can provide more control. Anyone with more experience, please share your tips!
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Post by madirish on Jun 13, 2024 19:28:55 GMT
Now THAT is reviving a zombie post!
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Post by larason2 on Jun 13, 2024 21:52:23 GMT
A strop is basically a sort of fine grit abrasive. The abrasive gets caught in the leather matrix. The beauty of this is that you can change up different abrasives with different properties (even different grits), and you can match the surface of the strop to the surface of the material. Whereas the Japanese use fine stones to accomplish the same thing. You need a lot more different stones to accomplish what you can with one strop. That being said, the strop needs more skill to use. Most swords, even Japanese swords, don't need to be that sharp though. Really, sharpening it with a 1000 grit stone is enough to cut most things. If it's really hard, finely polishing an edge can help prevent chipping, but only so much. Trying to use a strop to polish a Japanese sword probably isn't a good idea though, unless you've only ever used very fine abrasives with that strop, and only to replace the finest stones. Here though, it would be more challenging than trying to use stones, because you want the abrasive at just the right distance from the material, and that's more challenging with a strop. So I'd leave the stropping for razors, its rare enough for someone to polish katanas with stones! If you don't have stones, sandpaper is probably the best, and these days you can get all kinds of very fine automotive sandpapers. If you want it extra sharp and don't have stones and don't want to buy sandpaper, and have a strop, I guess you could use one, but there's probably no need.
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Post by treeslicer on Jun 15, 2024 1:33:34 GMT
A strop is basically a sort of fine grit abrasive. The abrasive gets caught in the leather matrix..............If you don't have stones, sandpaper is probably the best, and these days you can get all kinds of very fine automotive sandpapers. If you want it extra sharp and don't have stones and don't want to buy sandpaper, and have a strop, I guess you could use one, but there's probably no need. Now, now. I use a strop on katana occasionally with diatomaceous earth as an abrasive, and it's not from a lack of stones, in either sense.
IMHO, the strop produces the sharpest possible edge, particularly on very hard edges like on nihonto. This can be important on some targets, for getting a smooth flat edge on the cut target.
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Post by mrstabby on Jun 15, 2024 8:59:39 GMT
A strop removes microscopic burrs and refines the edge, makes it more uniform, a more stable edge to straight off stone or sandpaper. Stropping can also restore edges to sharp pretty quickly during a cutting session. A strop does not replace sharpening though, the apex must be already pretty good for a strop to be effective. I mean, yes you could theorethically sharpen via strop, but the strop can't contain too much metal dust and needs to be cleaned when it gets too loaded, and that happens quickly if you try to really shapren with it. Then there is the debate rough vs smooth side. Personally I find the smooth produces a finer edge but gets clogged pretty fast. Sometimes when people lament the edge retention of a blade is subpar, it can be a microscopic burr. And I mean microscopic, as in small pieces of jagged metal sticking straight off the apex. These are sharp, but break off easily making an edge last only a very short time. This is a bigger problem on low hardness high toughness steels that like to keep a burr - so monotemper swords. I am sure the micro-burr problem is much less on the super hard edges of Katana.
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