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Post by nerdthenord on Jan 1, 2024 0:46:51 GMT
Anyone here acquainted with the Colt Bisley? I suspect I’d enjoy one more than the traditional Single Action Army, with my smaller hands and frame, but I’m looking for input from y’all.
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Post by Curtis_Louis on Jan 1, 2024 1:41:44 GMT
I don't particularly care for the Bisley grip. I don't hate it, but it seems to roll more under recoil than my SAA. I'm not sure you will find it more suitable to smaller hands.
Have you tried a SAA with reduced sized grips? My El Patron has slim grips and they make a considerable difference in grip size. I have XL hands, but still prefer the slim grips over the standard SAA grips.
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Post by Lord Newport on Jan 1, 2024 2:54:25 GMT
Anyone here acquainted with the Colt Bisley? I suspect I’d enjoy one more than the traditional Single Action Army, with my smaller hands and frame, but I’m looking for input from y’all. You're going full cowboy on us aren't you?
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Post by nerdthenord on Jan 1, 2024 19:15:56 GMT
I don't particularly care for the Bisley grip. I don't hate it, but it seems to roll more under recoil than my SAA. I'm not sure you will find it more suitable to smaller hands. Have you tried a SAA with reduced sized grips? My El Patron has slim grips and they make a considerable difference in grip size. I have XL hands, but still prefer the slim grips over the standard SAA grips. Thanks, guess I’ll have to try and handle one IRL, have had polarized responses to the Bisley where I’ve asked, no middle ground.
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Post by nerdthenord on Jan 1, 2024 19:16:29 GMT
Anyone here acquainted with the Colt Bisley? I suspect I’d enjoy one more than the traditional Single Action Army, with my smaller hands and frame, but I’m looking for input from y’all. You're going full cowboy on us aren't you? Yep, even found a SASS club 40 minutes away that services my area.
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Post by carbon on Jan 1, 2024 20:06:01 GMT
You're a Texan. Goin' full cowboy is your birthright.
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Post by nerdthenord on Jan 1, 2024 21:46:36 GMT
You're a Texan. Goin' full cowboy is your birthright.
Heck yeah!
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Alan Schiff
Registered
Manufacturers and Vendors
Posts: 464
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Post by Alan Schiff on Jan 2, 2024 22:52:24 GMT
Best thing is to see if you can handle one and compare. I have small hands, and don't care for the Bisley grips myself. The actual profile of the grip panels can make a huge difference in comfort. When I was first looking at SAAs many of them had thick, boxy grips that didn't fit my hand well. It turned me off from full-size SAAs and I ended up getting a Frontier Scout, which is 3/4 size. It also had boxy grips but they were still more comfortable. I ended up replacing them with Altomont bonded ivory grips, which have a waisted profile and made a huge difference. Eventually I did get a real SAA, and put grips with a similar profile on it.
Another option is to go with a 3/4 size Uberti, if you can find one. I believe it was called the Stallion, available in .38spl. I had one and it was a perfect fit, but sold it after I got the SAA.
Hope that helps, Alan
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Post by nerdthenord on Jan 3, 2024 1:55:15 GMT
Best thing is to see if you can handle one and compare. I have small hands, and don't care for the Bisley grips myself. The actual profile of the grip panels can make a huge difference in comfort. When I was first looking at SAAs many of them had thick, boxy grips that didn't fit my hand well. It turned me off from full-size SAAs and I ended up getting a Frontier Scout, which is 3/4 size. It also had boxy grips but they were still more comfortable. I ended up replacing them with Altomont bonded ivory grips, which have a waisted profile and made a huge difference. Eventually I did get a real SAA, and put grips with a similar profile on it. Another option is to go with a 3/4 size Uberti, if you can find one. I believe it was called the Stallion, available in .38spl. I had one and it was a perfect fit, but sold it after I got the SAA. Hope that helps, Alan Thanks, short of actually being able to handle one IRL, I may just go with the classic grip since I at least have experience with it and don’t have much of an issue if I use my off hand to operate the hammer.
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tera
Moderator
Posts: 1,662
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Post by tera on Jan 3, 2024 6:48:47 GMT
Wee had an original Colt Bisley for a while in the shop. Went for somewhere between $2-3k.
Solid design, but the grip felt geared toward target shooting more than defense. Just one opinion. Not a bad gun overall.
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Post by izzy on Jan 3, 2024 8:49:12 GMT
I don't particularly care for the Bisley grip. I don't hate it, but it seems to roll more under recoil than my SAA. I'm not sure you will find it more suitable to smaller hands. Have you tried a SAA with reduced sized grips? My El Patron has slim grips and they make a considerable difference in grip size. I have XL hands, but still prefer the slim grips over the standard SAA grips. Thanks, guess I’ll have to try and handle one IRL, have had polarized responses to the Bisley where I’ve asked, no middle ground. Hopefully someone with a Bisley will let you pop off a few rounds to help you decide. With cowboy action rounds it should not be too bad. I shot a Ruger Bisley version years ago and thought it was great.
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Post by carbon on Jan 3, 2024 16:11:07 GMT
Definitely do an IRL if you can. I've seen far to many people at the range struggling to shoot with a gun that just doesn't fit them.
Also, try this. If you find something you like do a 'pointability' check. First make sure that the gun is unloaded and have the salesperson double check it with you. Next, pick a target in a safe direction. While gripping the gun as you normally would (finger off the trigger of course) and pointed downward* focus on your chosen target and bring the gun up to firing position. The sights should line up reasonably well without you having to adjust your grip or wrist angle. Note that a simple change of grips can make a difference if it is close.
Good luck with your quest for a new gun and sport.
* Low ready position
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tera
Moderator
Posts: 1,662
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Post by tera on Jan 3, 2024 18:25:45 GMT
I always agree with trying firearms on for fitment. That every gun shop doesn't help customers evaluated individual fitment is a pet peeve.
As for pointability, I think that's the Bisley's greatest asset and flaw. The grip allows you to very comfortable point and aim your first shot. However, the angle of the grip and relative high bore axis make it less suited to rapid follow-up. But, again, that's an opinion based on my own anatomy. Try one on and see how it works for you.
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Post by carbon on Jan 3, 2024 19:14:05 GMT
I always agree with trying firearms on for fitment. That every gun shop doesn't help customers evaluated individual fitment is a pet peeve. As for pointability, I think that's the Bisley's greatest asset and flaw. The grip allows you to very comfortable point and aim your first shot. However, the angle of the grip and relative high bore axis make it less suited to rapid follow-up. But, again, that's an opinion based on my own anatomy. Try one on and see how it works for you. I've never owned a Bisley which is why I won't make a specific comment on them.
You made a couple of good points. A high bore axis will make for more muzzle flip and thus longer recovery time.
As far as gun shops go, most in my area don't bother to train the sales people well enough to give the customer the needed advice. Some offer training classes or individual instruction with rental guns available which is a plus but the salespeople, for the most part, just aren't up to that task. There are exceptions of course. Sad really...
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Post by Lord Newport on Jan 3, 2024 19:32:11 GMT
I always agree with trying firearms on for fitment. That every gun shop doesn't help customers evaluated individual fitment is a pet peeve. As for pointability, I think that's the Bisley's greatest asset and flaw. The grip allows you to very comfortable point and aim your first shot. However, the angle of the grip and relative high bore axis make it less suited to rapid follow-up. But, again, that's an opinion based on my own anatomy. Try one on and see how it works for you. I've never owned a Bisley which is why I won't make a specific comment on them.
You made a couple of good points. A high bore axis will make for more muzzle flip and thus longer recovery time.
As far as gun shops go, most in my area don't bother to train the sales people well enough to give the customer the needed advice. Some offer training classes or individual instruction with rental guns available which is a plus but the salespeople, for the most part, just aren't up to that task. There are exceptions of course. Sad really...
You have to admit, counterhelp in a gun store does not offer much of a career path unless you are the owner.
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Post by carbon on Jan 3, 2024 19:46:12 GMT
Ain't that the truth! I worked in one when I went into semi-retirement a few years back. That lasted about a month before I moved on. I got a good discount on a gun or two but it just wasn't worth the trouble, and don't get me started on what I saw going on in the indoor range.
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Post by exeter on Jan 3, 2024 21:33:26 GMT
For someone with small hands, I'd recommend you take a look at a birds head grip. The old Colt lightning and Thunderer single actions from the late 1800/early 1900's had that style grip, and they fit smaller hands very well.
I believe Uberti makes a few models with birds head grips.
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tera
Moderator
Posts: 1,662
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Post by tera on Jan 3, 2024 23:49:53 GMT
I have short fingers and palm of average width and can say, in my case, birds head grips (or bobtail cut 1911s) feel good. I'd definitely try some on. Again, it's about learning how to find what fits YOU so take everything on the internet with a grain of salt.
As for gun shops, I worked for a national chain that prides itself on service for a few years as a "vacation job". I was part time consultant for a Software Dev. Think Tank, part time firearms sales. My prior experience in the software world led to some industry crossover. So, I did it because I believed no one should be forced to be a victim and took pride in providing quality care. I admit not all gun clerks do. At the time, I made less behind the gun counter than a high school kid folding T-Shirts at Target, but it wasn't a career, so I got by.
Like, during my interview I was asked some basic questions. I answered, then went on some ramble about, yes, X firearm is in Y barrel twist rate because Person A, who designed the caliber, wanted to stabilize bullets between this range of grain. My soon-to-be-boss was dubious, and asked if I knew the guy. Yes, I knew the guy. I'd been to their R&D and manufacturing facilities, and he even let me update his personal website. After that, he shoved his papers in a drawer and said, "Well, I don't need to ask you any of these questions... when can you start?"
So, in short, I am a big advocate for helping people be informed consumers in any industry. I hate that people, even the USCCA, will make a statement like "X is the best carry gun". Buying a gun should be like buying a suit, only we are short on skilled tailors.
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Post by mrstabby on Jan 4, 2024 10:53:55 GMT
I haven't held a Bisley, but an Umberti Colt Single Action Army replica with a similar grip. I found it weird. Is there any specific reason to the curved grip geometry?
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Post by nerdthenord on Jan 4, 2024 22:47:36 GMT
I haven't held a Bisley, but an Umberti Colt Single Action Army replica with a similar grip. I found it weird. Is there any specific reason to the curved grip geometry? I’ve heard, but must be clear that it’s just what I’ve heard and there’s a LOT of made up information about old west gun history and doctrine, that it was designed to keep the hand in position better than the “plough” grips on most “cowboy” revolvers, which have the habit of rocking in your hand. The fact that multiple people I trust here say that it actually rocked more in hand than normal grips leads me to doubt that without hard evidence like a written primary source. Without a primary source I seriously doubt the conjecture that “plough” grips were designed to rock back in hand to help with recoil. From my own experience, full sized military revolvers, not necessarily shorter barrel civilian models, have mild recoil even with normal pressure.45 colt, and having a gun rock in your hand sounds like a side effect of the smooth polished wood grips more than any intentional doctrine. My 1860 Mason Conversion in .45 colt devoured recoil when I tested it with normal pressure loads, very little difference from the low power cowboy loads it normally gets fed. The gun mechanism itself, with the open top design, suffered more from the normal military pressure loads than my hand or wrist did. Based on the known amount of poor quality information about old west guns and my personal experiences, I’d believe that the idea that “cowboy” revolvers were designed to rock in hand is wrong, but will freely change my mind if presented with a primary source that says they were. So long story short, I have no clue lol, but doubt a lot of the stories on the internet.
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