seth
Member
Just Peachy
Posts: 977
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Post by seth on Jan 4, 2024 2:43:37 GMT
Noooooooo...lol Let's not re-hash the 9mm/.45acp rebate here... Good, cuz I was just about to point out why .40 S&W is the clear answer. Answer, all of the above, due to ammo availability issues. Besides, different bullet weight and powder ranges (low velocity .40 or high velocity 9mm, for instance) can make all three shoot very much like each other. Nope. A .75 caliber Brown Bess with bayonet is the answer.
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Post by izzy on Jan 4, 2024 6:59:35 GMT
Good, cuz I was just about to point out why .40 S&W is the clear answer. Answer, all of the above, due to ammo availability issues. Besides, different bullet weight and powder ranges (low velocity .40 or high velocity 9mm, for instance) can make all three shoot very much like each other. Nope. A .75 caliber Brown Bess with bayonet is the answer. All common SD pistol calibers are anemic, choose one between .32 and .45 with the proper set up ( not a total mouse gun) and call it a day. A rifle OTOH has gasses that will clear take a head off at close range ( ugly but true).
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Post by izzy on Jan 4, 2024 7:18:49 GMT
Peace guys! Is my idea of not lethal ammo (rubber, pepper spray, gas, torch) really so unthinkable for you? You still have a visible pistol that makes bangbang to shock the attacker and this ammo is a weapon on knife distance too. And you don't shoot your family and neighbors. One day there will be peace. But not now. The world is in a downward spiral.
Pepper spray cans go "off" (go bad) quick with body heat and time and are not reliable. Even if it works there are cases where it just enrages the attacker to attack more.
Rubber bullets wound ( and can also kill /maim, esp. for steel core Police / Military versions), if one goes that route better make sure it can fire repeat shots. Not advisable to meet deadly force with less force, IMHO, but that is a personal choice if you want to try.
How do you know it will be "knife distance" ?
How do you know how many attackers it will be in advance? ( criminals often work in groups)
How do you know what weapons will be used by the attacker?
There is no perfect answer.
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Post by AndiTheBarvarian on Jan 4, 2024 7:35:03 GMT
There is:
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Post by izzy on Jan 4, 2024 14:51:07 GMT
There is: Andi, Just remember to shoot one at a time.
Another tip on pepper spray, don't use anything but the "stream" kind indoors or you'll get some too.
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Post by howler on Jan 4, 2024 17:25:57 GMT
Nope. A .75 caliber Brown Bess with bayonet is the answer. All common SD pistol calibers are anemic, choose one between .32 and .45 with the proper set up ( not a total mouse gun) and call it a day. A rifle OTOH has gasses that will clear take a head off at close range ( ugly but true). I'd add that you choose the most powerful handgun you can shoot and carry effectively FOR YOU. Now, shooting and carrying effectively open up a whole kettle of questions that probably need another thread or two. Mouse guns are cool, and I dig my Ruger .380ACP max, but far better choices for the nightstand in the bedroom.
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Post by Lord Newport on Jan 4, 2024 19:14:45 GMT
Problem solved....45acp AND 9mm at the same time!
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Post by howler on Jan 4, 2024 19:23:09 GMT
Problem solved....45acp AND 9mm at the same time! A modern day Blackbeard.
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Post by izzy on Jan 4, 2024 19:38:50 GMT
All common SD pistol calibers are anemic, choose one between .32 and .45 with the proper set up ( not a total mouse gun) and call it a day. A rifle OTOH has gasses that will clear take a head off at close range ( ugly but true). I'd add that you choose the most powerful handgun you can shoot and carry effectively FOR YOU. Now, shooting and carrying effectively open up a whole kettle of questions that probably need another thread or two. Mouse guns are cool, and I dig my Ruger .380ACP max, but far better choices for the nightstand in the bedroom. I agree with that. one needs every bit of help one can get. The odds are the BG makes the first move, and when/ if he gets the "drop" on you your odds of survival go down dramatically. It's not so easy to keep up with situational awareness, and in crowded areas it gets worse.
I've shot the P-32 and found it hard to make rapid hits, not as bad as with .44 a Desert Eagle, but enough that I would not carry it. I never shot the little Rugers, but used to carry either a PPK OR my Khar MK-9. These days there are plenty of plastic framed mid-sized 9mm, some with 15 round mags, that is what I favor now.
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Post by Arlequin on Jan 4, 2024 20:25:15 GMT
.357 is God's calibre. Nuff said.
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Post by howler on Jan 4, 2024 23:06:47 GMT
.357 is God's calibre. Nuff said. Amazing versatility. Weak .38 special practice rounds, check. Standard to plus P .38 special, check. Lower powered .357, check. Standard to plus P .357 magnum, check. Heavy weight hunting rounds from regular to fire breathing magnum, check.
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Post by izzy on Jan 7, 2024 8:11:07 GMT
.357 is God's calibre. Nuff said. Amazing versatility. Weak .38 special practice rounds, check. Standard to plus P .38 special, check. Lower powered .357, check. Standard to plus P .357 magnum, check. Heavy weight hunting rounds from regular to fire breathing magnum, check. But in general low capacity, of course you may not need that with such a good round, unless it's a gang. I understand people don't really mean to say God Uses a .357, but that's still slightly heretical to me. I've carried .357, and even moved houses with one carried by my belly, I don't think it's a good idea to pounce on any caliber form 7.65X17 /.32 ACP ( with European FMJ) to whatever you prefer and up, as all (with the right loads!) will meet the the 12" minimum penetration in an unarmored attacker not behind barrier protection.
Again, I am full agreement it's better to have the largest caliber one can carry, it's just as important to practice with what one has and shoots well, regardless of caliber (within reason). The number of potential shots matter as well. In no way am I equating a 7+1 PPK in .32 to a .357 Magnum, but the ease of carry, and ease of reloading in an smaller automatic ( say mid sized 9mm) can not be dismissed.
I have watched a mid size dog get euthanized with .357 (it was dying of cancer, and someone did not want to pay the Vet). That dog was still moving it's legs like it wanted to run after 3 shots to the head, in the end the whole cylinder had to be used, between assessments of what was going on, the shooter ( not me) apologizing to the dog after the first couple of rounds, before finishing it off...this took a few minutes of work ( like 2-3 if memory is correct). While I am relatively sure an attacker hit with a head shot would find it difficult to shoot back, but it would not be impossible. Don't expect an attacker will go down so quick from pistol rounds, even to the CNS / brain. One has to keep shooting till they go down, and are no longer a threat, that is the harsh reality.
Another note, a pair of Walker's game ears ( or other electronic earmuffs) will be very useful indoors, and for those who shoot 5.56 outdoors as well. One may not have time or presence of mind to do so, and I have found 762X39 to be ideal in rural areas when you just grab something an go, while 5.56 Nato makes the ears ring for while, and that was outdoors.
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Post by mrstabby on Jan 7, 2024 8:37:43 GMT
I have watched a mid size dog get euthanized with .357 (it was dying of cancer, and someone did not want to pay the Vet). That dog was still moving it's legs like it wanted to run after 3 shots to the head, in the end the whole cylinder had to be used, between assessments of what was going on, the shooter ( not me) apologizing to the dog after the first couple of rounds, before finishing it off...this took a few minutes of work ( like 2-3 if memory is correct). While I am relatively sure an attacker hit with a head shot would find it difficult to shoot back, but it would not be impossible. Don't expect an attacker will go down so quick from pistol rounds, even to the CNS / brain. One has to keep shooting till they go down, and are no longer a threat, that is the harsh reality.
The movement of limbs does not necessarily mean the dog was still concious. The CNS does repeat the last signal it got sent on loop in case the origin of the signal cuts out for as long as there is energy in the nerves to send signals or the muscles to contract. That's why many times the limbs still move because they got the "run" command last. Does not mean it isn't hard to watch, but the dog very likely was already gone after the first shot. Unless it was a very unlucky hit missing all vital brain areas. If the brain stem stays intact, there will be movement for a while, no matter the status of the higher brain function. Very uncoordinated movement, which makes it look wild.
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Post by izzy on Jan 7, 2024 10:31:08 GMT
If it had been an attacker with a finger on the trigger, that trigger could have been pulled easy, even as the life escapes from them. That is my point.
As a gory side note the dog was still whimpering, that does not prove anything, but it's an indication the dog was feeling pain. The dog only tried to run after it was shot as it had no reason to suspect ( yes likely a reflex). ( Again it was not my bright idea, and I was not the shooter, but I did witness this).
I've seen lots of bigger animals ( Cows and Bulls) move and fight the certain death when either a captive bolt went into the head, or when I or one of my group did it, cutting their vitals ( windpipe, Gullet, Jugulars on both sides)...they have lot's of vitality, which is a good thing, that way you know they are somewhat healthy.
But the dog was sick and dying, with the only option from the Vet to pay big bucks to put it down, and it was .357 with full power ammo, with 3 rapid shots ( at first) to the brain of the dog, all shots well centered....With 3 more that finally put an end to that.
I personally hold the Vet responsible, as that dog was never the same after having undergone general Anesthesia at the same clinic to have it's ears cropped, tail docked. IMHO either too much anesthesia, and/or it got a virus at the vet IMHO.
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Post by mrstabby on Jan 7, 2024 10:47:25 GMT
If it had been an attacker with a finger on the trigger, that trigger could have been pulled easy, even as the life escapes from them. That is my point. As a gory side note the dog was still whimpering, that does not prove anything, but it's an indication the dog was feeling pain. The dog only tried to run after it was shot as it had no reason to suspect ( yes likely a reflex). ( Again it was not my bright idea, and I was not the shooter, but I did witness this). I've seen lots of bigger animals ( Cows and Bulls) move and fight the certain death when either a captive bolt went into the head, or when I or one of my group did it, cutting their vitals ( windpipe, Gullet, Jugulars on both sides)...they have lot's of vitality, which is a good thing, that way you know they are somewhat healthy. But the dog was sick and dying, with the only option from the Vet to pay big bucks to put it down, and it was .357 with full power ammo, with 3 rapid shots ( at first) to the brain of the dog, all shots well centered....With 3 more that finally put an end to that. I personally hold the Vet responsible, as that dog was never the same after having undergone general Anesthesia at the same clinic to have it's ears cropped, tail docked. IMHO either too much anesthesia, and/or it got a virus at the vet IMHO. Yeah, finger on the trigger, the shot is likely to go, no debating that. Although there is a relatively tiny T shaped zone for humans where there will be a flaccid paralysis (probably similar on any animal) EDIT not that that's guaranteed to work either, hostage rescue trains a lot to hit there. Any hit everywhere else very likely leads to a hard flinch of all muscles. Not that it means surviving, it's lights out either way.
Always a bad situation when penny pinching and pets meet....Always to the detriment of the animal. So happy that that stuff (cropping, but also shooting animals youirself unless you are a state licensed hunter) is illegal here, would you be the same after waking up with no ears (comparatively speaking)?
ALSO EDIT: I have seen 2 videos recently, one where showing a gun worked, one where it didn't. For the second guy, outlook is bad.... Unfortunately best decision is to shoot first and go for the overkill, you're gonna regret not to shoot more, if the other party decides to fire first.
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Post by izzy on Jan 7, 2024 14:41:45 GMT
If it had been an attacker with a finger on the trigger, that trigger could have been pulled easy, even as the life escapes from them. That is my point. As a gory side note the dog was still whimpering, that does not prove anything, but it's an indication the dog was feeling pain. The dog only tried to run after it was shot as it had no reason to suspect ( yes likely a reflex). ( Again it was not my bright idea, and I was not the shooter, but I did witness this). I've seen lots of bigger animals ( Cows and Bulls) move and fight the certain death when either a captive bolt went into the head, or when I or one of my group did it, cutting their vitals ( windpipe, Gullet, Jugulars on both sides)...they have lot's of vitality, which is a good thing, that way you know they are somewhat healthy. But the dog was sick and dying, with the only option from the Vet to pay big bucks to put it down, and it was .357 with full power ammo, with 3 rapid shots ( at first) to the brain of the dog, all shots well centered....With 3 more that finally put an end to that. I personally hold the Vet responsible, as that dog was never the same after having undergone general Anesthesia at the same clinic to have it's ears cropped, tail docked. IMHO either too much anesthesia, and/or it got a virus at the vet IMHO. Yeah, finger on the trigger, the shot is likely to go, no debating that. Although there is a relatively tiny T shaped zone for humans where there will be a flaccid paralysis (probably similar on any animal) EDIT not that that's guaranteed to work either, hostage rescue trains a lot to hit there. Any hit everywhere else very likely leads to a hard flinch of all muscles. Not that it means surviving, it's lights out either way.
Always a bad situation when penny pinching and pets meet....Always to the detriment of the animal. So happy that that stuff (cropping, but also shooting animals youirself unless you are a state licensed hunter) is illegal here, would you be the same after waking up with no ears (comparatively speaking)?
ALSO EDIT: I have seen 2 videos recently, one where showing a gun worked, one where it didn't. For the second guy, outlook is bad.... Unfortunately best decision is to shoot first and go for the overkill, you're gonna regret not to shoot more, if the other party decides to fire first.
Based on what I know, unless I was a breeder, I would not put an animal under general anesthesia just for looks, too much can go wrong, and I suspect that Vet was not the cleanest ( thus some kind of cancer causing virus/ bacteria). I have seen humans not wake up from operations, as my parents who have medical backgrounds used to tell me "doctors bury their mistakes".
While I don't like what happened, one can't blame the owner, to pay hundreds a vet to do what they could do, even if it's not "humane". In the USA the so called "humane" way to execute Murderers with IV drugs often turns out not to be so "humane" in any case. My main job was to shovel and help bury the dog. To make myself feel better I planted a tree on top, knowing it should grow well.
In rural Florida I had to cull "black giant" chickens with bird flu, ( gasping for air, wheezing) or some kind of worms (?). We consulted the state on what to do, but no dewormer, or antibiotic we paid dearly for worked. They were "slaughter weight", and we tried to salvage some before I culled them, for food, but the esophagus kept moving ( pulsing) after slaughter ( not normal) and we decided against that.
First I tried subsonic .22lr, in a rifle, they took shot after shot and were strutting around the grounds ( some 4 to 5 shots), then I broke out an old box of frangible .22 LR (quik-shok) and they dropped like flies. I was so P.O.'d about having to do it, but could not have the pathogen move to my other birds (Geese, Ducks, Guinea fowl, and Quail). I Poured gallons of Bleach in their pen, worked it into the soil, did not use that pen for a long time ( we would let them,and most of our animals out of the pens twice a day, so who knows what they picked up and where). I buried those chickens, what I thought was deep enough, but the coyotes dug them up and ate them...such is life.
There is no "moral superiority" in Europe, U.K. Or Canada vis. most of the the USA, one may "feel" better it's against the law to cull an animal, but right now humans are being culled, and not just with assisted suicide. In the U.K. it was diamorphine, and just about every where the well known treatment protocol for Covid was withheld, and people put on ventilators that hastened death. In the USA palliative care consists of Morphine and Ativan ( lorazepam ) or Midazolam in Europe ( genuine Phycotropic / psychiatric drugs)...so things are pretty messed up right now.
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Post by mrstabby on Jan 7, 2024 15:02:10 GMT
Yeah, finger on the trigger, the shot is likely to go, no debating that. Although there is a relatively tiny T shaped zone for humans where there will be a flaccid paralysis (probably similar on any animal) EDIT not that that's guaranteed to work either, hostage rescue trains a lot to hit there. Any hit everywhere else very likely leads to a hard flinch of all muscles. Not that it means surviving, it's lights out either way.
Always a bad situation when penny pinching and pets meet....Always to the detriment of the animal. So happy that that stuff (cropping, but also shooting animals youirself unless you are a state licensed hunter) is illegal here, would you be the same after waking up with no ears (comparatively speaking)?
ALSO EDIT: I have seen 2 videos recently, one where showing a gun worked, one where it didn't. For the second guy, outlook is bad.... Unfortunately best decision is to shoot first and go for the overkill, you're gonna regret not to shoot more, if the other party decides to fire first.
Based on what I know, unless I was a breeder, I would not put an animal under general anesthesia just for looks, too much can go wrong, and I suspect that Vet was not the cleanest ( thus some kind of cancer causing virus/ bacteria). I have seen humans not wake up from operations, as my parents who have medical backgrounds used to tell me "doctors bury their mistakes".
While I don't like what happened, one can't blame the owner, to pay hundreds a vet to do what they could do, even if it's not "humane". In the USA the so called "humane" way to execute Murderers with IV drugs often turns out not to be so "humane" in any case. My main job was to shovel and help bury the dog. To make myself feel better I planted a tree on top, knowing it should grow well.
In rural Florida I had to cull "black giant" chickens with bird flu, ( gasping for air, wheezing) or some kind of worms (?). We consulted the state on what to do, but no dewormer, or antibiotic we paid dearly for worked. They were "slaughter weight", and we tried to salvage some before I culled them, for food, but the esophagus kept moving ( pulsing) after slaughter ( not normal) and we decided against that.
First I tried subsonic .22lr, in a rifle, they took shot after shot and were strutting around the grounds ( some 4 to 5 shots), then I broke out an old box of frangible .22 LR (quik-shok) and they dropped like flies. I was so P.O.'d about having to do it, but could not have the pathogen move to my other birds (Geese, Ducks, Guinea fowl, and Quail). I Poured gallons of Bleach in their pen, worked it into the soil, did not use that pen for a long time ( we would let them,and most of our animals out of the pens twice a day, so who knows what they picked up and where). I buried those chickens, what I thought was deep enough, but the coyotes dug them up and ate them...such is life.
There is no "moral superiority" in Europe, U.K. Or Canada vis. most of the the USA, one may "feel" better it's against the law to cull an animal, but right now humans are being culled, and not just with assisted suicide. In the U.K. it was diamorphine, and just about every where the well known treatment protocol for Covid was withheld, and people put on ventilators that hastened death. In the USA palliative care consists of Morphine and Ativan ( lorazepam ) or Midazolam in Europe ( genuine Phycotropic / psychiatric drugs)...so things are pretty messed up right now.
Non mammals can take A LOT more than most mammals can. There are multiple records of headless chickens surviving for weeks, though this is more a botched slaughter. Also pigeons, fish and insects with a lot of missing stuff still living somehow.
I am not talking moral superiority, I am just saying 99% of people would botch that and therefore it's good it is somewhat being restricted. Not that I have not seen enough "shovelings". I have also heard of people getting mauled trying to finish off a wounded animal.
Don't begin with covid please, there is so much being said that's just untrue and discussing that here just makes no sense (also has no place here according to the rules).
EDIT: I would not go so far as equating vets with human doctors, vets don't have to bury as much because they won't get in trouble as much, at least in europe. On the other hand that means they can be less accurate whenever they do something, leading to errors. Not saying all do, but there are always bad ones.
And the problem with the execution by lethal injection isn't the method itself, it is that it's being done by laymen, some of whom couldn't hit a vein if you helped their hand.
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Post by izzy on Jan 7, 2024 16:28:02 GMT
Based on what I know, unless I was a breeder, I would not put an animal under general anesthesia just for looks, too much can go wrong, and I suspect that Vet was not the cleanest ( thus some kind of cancer causing virus/ bacteria). I have seen humans not wake up from operations, as my parents who have medical backgrounds used to tell me "doctors bury their mistakes".
While I don't like what happened, one can't blame the owner, to pay hundreds a vet to do what they could do, even if it's not "humane". In the USA the so called "humane" way to execute Murderers with IV drugs often turns out not to be so "humane" in any case. My main job was to shovel and help bury the dog. To make myself feel better I planted a tree on top, knowing it should grow well.
In rural Florida I had to cull "black giant" chickens with bird flu, ( gasping for air, wheezing) or some kind of worms (?). We consulted the state on what to do, but no dewormer, or antibiotic we paid dearly for worked. They were "slaughter weight", and we tried to salvage some before I culled them, for food, but the esophagus kept moving ( pulsing) after slaughter ( not normal) and we decided against that.
First I tried subsonic .22lr, in a rifle, they took shot after shot and were strutting around the grounds ( some 4 to 5 shots), then I broke out an old box of frangible .22 LR (quik-shok) and they dropped like flies. I was so P.O.'d about having to do it, but could not have the pathogen move to my other birds (Geese, Ducks, Guinea fowl, and Quail). I Poured gallons of Bleach in their pen, worked it into the soil, did not use that pen for a long time ( we would let them,and most of our animals out of the pens twice a day, so who knows what they picked up and where). I buried those chickens, what I thought was deep enough, but the coyotes dug them up and ate them...such is life.
There is no "moral superiority" in Europe, U.K. Or Canada vis. most of the the USA, one may "feel" better it's against the law to cull an animal, but right now humans are being culled, and not just with assisted suicide. In the U.K. it was diamorphine, and just about every where the well known treatment protocol for Covid was withheld, and people put on ventilators that hastened death. In the USA palliative care consists of Morphine and Ativan ( lorazepam ) or Midazolam in Europe ( genuine Phycotropic / psychiatric drugs)...so things are pretty messed up right now.
Non mammals can take A LOT more than most mammals can. There are multiple records of headless chickens surviving for weeks, though this is more a botched slaughter. Also pigeons, fish and insects with a lot of missing stuff still living somehow.
I am not talking moral superiority, I am just saying 99% of people would botch that and therefore it's good it is somewhat being restricted. Not that I have not seen enough "shovelings". I have also heard of people getting mauled trying to finish off a wounded animal.
Don't begin with covid please, there is so much being said that's just untrue and discussing that here just makes no sense (also has no place here according to the rules).
EDIT: I would not go so far as equating vets with human doctors, vets don't have to bury as much because they won't get in trouble as much, at least in europe. On the other hand that means they can be less accurate whenever they do something, leading to errors. Not saying all do, but there are always bad ones.
And the problem with the execution by lethal injection isn't the method itself, it is that it's being done by laymen, some of whom couldn't hit a vein if you helped their hand.
I got where your coming from. It's nice not to have to see death up close, it's nice to let a Vet "handle it", on that I agree. I also agree sometimes firearms are not always the answer...but it's an "easy" answer for most in the USA.
Rules...hmm, well we knew what might work because we had SARS and MERS before "that plague". Didier Raoult, and Luc Montagnier ( found HIV) had their names dragged through the mud, AFAIK Dr. Luc's still being slandered on Wiki even after his untimely death. If they had been listened to we could have saved countless of lives. Then there was the retracted paper from the Lancet that C18H26ClN3O, a drug used for 90 years was a "killer" when they front loaded doses too close to the LD50, and they knew that.
YES there is too much dis-info, especially from the "Viruses don't exist" crowd. The more you show that viruses are indeed isolated, the more they parrot stuff from the 1890's ( Koch's postulates), which have been met in any case, at least in terms of general viruses. Viruses are Nano Particles in nature, and not easy to isolate, but it's been done. If one looks for real world information it's best to check out Steve Kirch, or Igor Chudov on substack, or look up Dr. Lu Montagnier at the Rair Foundation...some of what was "conspiracy" is now fact backed by science and .gov statistics...that is all I will say on that issue.
As for chickens and subsonic .22 LR, I still don't trust the stuff, but that's a personal thing.
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Post by howler on Jan 7, 2024 18:34:23 GMT
Amazing versatility. Weak .38 special practice rounds, check. Standard to plus P .38 special, check. Lower powered .357, check. Standard to plus P .357 magnum, check. Heavy weight hunting rounds from regular to fire breathing magnum, check. But in general low capacity, of course you may not need that with such a good round, unless it's a gang. I understand people don't really mean to say God Uses a .357, but that's still slightly heretical to me. I've carried .357, and even moved houses with one carried by my belly, I don't think it's a good idea to pounce on any caliber form 7.65X17 /.32 ACP ( with European FMJ) to whatever you prefer and up, as all (with the right loads!) will meet the the 12" minimum penetration in an unarmored attacker not behind barrier protection.
Again, I am full agreement it's better to have the largest caliber one can carry, it's just as important to practice with what one has and shoots well, regardless of caliber (within reason). The number of potential shots matter as well. In no way am I equating a 7+1 PPK in .32 to a .357 Magnum, but the ease of carry, and ease of reloading in an smaller automatic ( say mid sized 9mm) can not be dismissed.
I have watched a mid size dog get euthanized with .357 (it was dying of cancer, and someone did not want to pay the Vet). That dog was still moving it's legs like it wanted to run after 3 shots to the head, in the end the whole cylinder had to be used, between assessments of what was going on, the shooter ( not me) apologizing to the dog after the first couple of rounds, before finishing it off...this took a few minutes of work ( like 2-3 if memory is correct). While I am relatively sure an attacker hit with a head shot would find it difficult to shoot back, but it would not be impossible. Don't expect an attacker will go down so quick from pistol rounds, even to the CNS / brain. One has to keep shooting till they go down, and are no longer a threat, that is the harsh reality.
Another note, a pair of Walker's game ears ( or other electronic earmuffs) will be very useful indoors, and for those who shoot 5.56 outdoors as well. One may not have time or presence of mind to do so, and I have found 762X39 to be ideal in rural areas when you just grab something an go, while 5.56 Nato makes the ears ring for while, and that was outdoors.
Yup, they don't jam, but revolvers can't enjoy the advantage of having 13-20 rounds of double stack semi-auto goodness, as I can only max out at 8 rounds with my Ruger Redhawk and S&W 627. Wonder what type of .357 round was used on that dog, as I noted the HUGE performance variation inherent in the caliber. A proper high energy hollow point should blow it's freaking brains out.
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Post by izzy on Jan 7, 2024 19:01:35 GMT
But in general low capacity, of course you may not need that with such a good round, unless it's a gang. I understand people don't really mean to say God Uses a .357, but that's still slightly heretical to me. I've carried .357, and even moved houses with one carried by my belly, I don't think it's a good idea to pounce on any caliber form 7.65X17 /.32 ACP ( with European FMJ) to whatever you prefer and up, as all (with the right loads!) will meet the the 12" minimum penetration in an unarmored attacker not behind barrier protection.
Again, I am full agreement it's better to have the largest caliber one can carry, it's just as important to practice with what one has and shoots well, regardless of caliber (within reason). The number of potential shots matter as well. In no way am I equating a 7+1 PPK in .32 to a .357 Magnum, but the ease of carry, and ease of reloading in an smaller automatic ( say mid sized 9mm) can not be dismissed.
I have watched a mid size dog get euthanized with .357 (it was dying of cancer, and someone did not want to pay the Vet). That dog was still moving it's legs like it wanted to run after 3 shots to the head, in the end the whole cylinder had to be used, between assessments of what was going on, the shooter ( not me) apologizing to the dog after the first couple of rounds, before finishing it off...this took a few minutes of work ( like 2-3 if memory is correct). While I am relatively sure an attacker hit with a head shot would find it difficult to shoot back, but it would not be impossible. Don't expect an attacker will go down so quick from pistol rounds, even to the CNS / brain. One has to keep shooting till they go down, and are no longer a threat, that is the harsh reality.
Another note, a pair of Walker's game ears ( or other electronic earmuffs) will be very useful indoors, and for those who shoot 5.56 outdoors as well. One may not have time or presence of mind to do so, and I have found 762X39 to be ideal in rural areas when you just grab something an go, while 5.56 Nato makes the ears ring for while, and that was outdoors.
Yup, they don't jam, but revolvers can't enjoy the advantage of having 13-20 rounds of double stack semi-auto goodness, as I can only max out at 8 rounds with my Ruger Redhawk and S&W 627. Wonder what type of .357 round was used on that dog, as I noted the HUGE performance variation inherent in the caliber. A proper high energy hollow point should blow it's freaking brains out. I know it was HP .357 magnum defensive load, something like 124 gr. but It's been almost 30 years, so I'm not sure 100% about the grain. They were nickel plated cases so not the cheap stuff.
Even if was a snub .38 at that range, and that kind of shot, I'm not sure it makes much a of a difference.
While I have my own personal bias, This guy makes some sense:
" Realistic Expectations: I think this is where we go astray; we expect way too much from our handguns. Hunters have known that seemingly equivalent shots on similar animals can produce very differing results. One may instantly drop while the other runs, yet both received lethal hits to the heart/lung area. This is so often seen that's it's accepted. Deadly force scenarios for most of us are much rarer and there are folks interested in self-protection that have no experience in hunting; they have never seen anything shot. They have never seen a deer with a shredded heart run a hundred yards.....If a 150 pound deer can be shot through the heart with a .30-06 180-gr. expanding bullet at 2700 ft/sec and keep moving, should we expect that a 200 pound human hit with a 180-gr. expanding forty-caliber bullet at 975 ft/sec to be instantly incapacitated?....The high-velocity rifle bullet doesn't always stop the game animal even with good hits, but normally the animal will not run as far before dying as when hit with an arrow. Even though hemorrhaging severely, they can go surprising distances if too quickly pursued. Adrenaline and the will to live push them beyond what many consider possible."
From: "Have No Faith in Your Defensive Handgun Caliber or Load! (Or Why I don't Get Involved in "Caliber Wars.") "
Here are the results of common Handgun stopping power study ( not Marshall), I think it's an important read even if he combines certain calibers into groups, IOW a flawed study, but not as bad as Evan Marshall :
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