seth
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Just Peachy
Posts: 977
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Post by seth on Dec 19, 2023 4:04:28 GMT
I was doing some stump testing with my Tod Cutler Dragon Hammer and it broke where the head attaches to the shaft. I'll have to remount it a bit shorter.
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Post by leviathansteak on Dec 19, 2023 9:10:20 GMT
Thats a shame. How deep does the haft go into the head?
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Post by mrstabby on Dec 19, 2023 12:14:53 GMT
How unfortunate! Did it go on the first strike? Probably not telling you something new here. Looks like the breakage you get when the head had a little play and the rim broke the wood. I would also look at the edge on the inside, might be a bit sharp.
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Post by takitam on Dec 19, 2023 13:49:02 GMT
Unfortunately, I'm not surprised. Choosing and preparing wood and making a solid haft is a forgotten art. Modern makers just use cheap manufactured pieces and, just like you can see on your example, mount them in the easiest possible way. You don't want sharp angles on your wooden haft.
But there is a lot more to it. I remember reading about preparing wood for an Irish stick (a different thing I know) and it sounded way more complicated than I had imagined.
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seth
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Posts: 977
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Post by seth on Dec 20, 2023 0:10:20 GMT
The socket of the head is about 2.25" deep. It broke after multiple swings. The head was attached solidly to the haft with no play. The wood used (ash) is a nice piece with long grains and no knots.
The head is very heavy. Based on my ages ago engineering classes, I think that all the stress from the strikes was borne at the point where it broke. I think an advantage of a war hammer with langets is that the langets distribute the stress from a strike down the haft to where the langets are attached. I have done the stump test with other hammers with langets without issue.
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Post by curiomansion on Dec 20, 2023 0:19:25 GMT
Tis but a scratch.
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Post by eastman on Dec 20, 2023 4:06:22 GMT
only a flesh wound. I've had worse.
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Post by bwaze on Dec 20, 2023 5:59:07 GMT
The socket appears rather small for this kind of weapon - I wonder if the original had thinner socket walls, or a transition at end so it thins out gradually rather than make a step in haft that is an obvious weak point.
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Post by izzy on Dec 20, 2023 13:22:02 GMT
The socket appears rather small for this kind of weapon - I wonder if the original had thinner socket walls, or a transition at end so it thins out gradually rather than make a step in haft that is an obvious weak point. Amen to that. It's close to a fantasy piece that met with reality. I looked at Tod's Site, and was not impressed with knives being made from medium carbon steel. Give me an Eastwing 16 oz. hammer ( or a Chinese copy like Aiyi) instead of that, not very historical, but it ain't gonna snap.
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Post by mrstabby on Dec 20, 2023 13:40:34 GMT
The socket appears rather small for this kind of weapon - I wonder if the original had thinner socket walls, or a transition at end so it thins out gradually rather than make a step in haft that is an obvious weak point. Amen to that. It's close to a fantasy piece that met with reality. I looked at Tod's Site, and was not impressed with knives being made from medium carbon steel. Give me an Eastwing 16 oz. hammer ( or a Chinese copy like Aiyi) instead of that, not very historical, but it ain't gonna snap. You mean EN45 steel? (couldn't find any others being used) And about the hammer, I honestly had no idea it was 800g! It looks to me like the socket has pretty sharp corners too. If it were me, I would take a file to the socket and widen it so it won't have such an abrupt corner.
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Post by izzy on Dec 20, 2023 13:57:49 GMT
Amen to that. It's close to a fantasy piece that met with reality. I looked at Tod's Site, and was not impressed with knives being made from medium carbon steel. Give me an Eastwing 16 oz. hammer ( or a Chinese copy like Aiyi) instead of that, not very historical, but it ain't gonna snap. You mean EN45 steel? (couldn't find any others being used) And about the hammer, I honestly had no idea it was 800g! It looks to me like the socket has pretty sharp corners too. If it were me, I would take a file to the socket and widen it so it won't have such an abrupt corner.
Just going by his own site's description of some of the knives.
En-45, if it is that, can have wide variances making it either medium or low end high carbon steel :
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seth
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Posts: 977
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Post by seth on Dec 20, 2023 14:37:41 GMT
The description says this is a piece scaled down from a staff weapon 20 cm wide. My hammer head is 14 cm wide (mouth to tail) and 14 cm tall so the original is quite a bit larger. Here is a picture of the original: todcutler.com/en-us/collections/medieval-daggers-and-large-knives/products/hammer-2 You can see where the haft goes into the socket, the edges of the socket overhang the haft which maybe prevented them from cutting into the haft upon striking. If the socket is very deep then it would distribute more the force of the blow over a greater area. When I remount this one, I will try smoothing and widening out the edges of the socket as suggested. I will reuse the same haft so it will be shorter. I have quite a bit of Tod's products. I have no complaints about the steel used. I have a long seax I have used for cutting brush, trimming logs, and other chores, and it has held up fine. He has a good Youtube channel where they test his items like rondels and they hold up. I guess I view it as whatever steel they use, it's likely better than what was used in the originals.
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Post by Lonely Wolf Forge on Dec 21, 2023 14:29:45 GMT
this is why i refuse to make hafted/socketed items. Its impossible to guarantee the wood wont break and then your left owing a customer a replacement.
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seth
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Posts: 977
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Post by seth on Dec 21, 2023 15:13:26 GMT
I don't consider this the maker's issue. I chose to stress test the hammer by repeatedly hitting a stump. It's my personal therapy. LOL.
I've broken windlass hammers this way (their wood is generally bad). I've broken waxwood. I've broken plenty of hickory hawk handles because I throw them. The only thing I haven't broken yet is the cold steel war hammer and the windlass English warhammer that I rehafted with oak.
Although I know some customers would demand a replacement. One of my pet peeves are the one star reviews on tomahawks and axes because the user broke a handle throwing.
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Post by Lord Newport on Dec 21, 2023 21:26:09 GMT
I chose to stress test the hammer by repeatedly hitting a stump. It's my personal therapy. LOL.
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Post by eastman on Dec 21, 2023 23:29:26 GMT
everybody needs a hobby, his is StumpThumping
(maybe someone could write a song about that?)
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Post by Lonely Wolf Forge on Dec 22, 2023 0:04:02 GMT
I don't consider this the maker's issue. I chose to stress test the hammer by repeatedly hitting a stump. It's my personal therapy. LOL. I've broken windlass hammers this way (their wood is generally bad). I've broken waxwood. I've broken plenty of hickory hawk handles because I throw them. The only thing I haven't broken yet is the cold steel war hammer and the windlass English warhammer that I rehafted with oak. Although I know some customers would demand a replacement. One of my pet peeves are the one star reviews on tomahawks and axes because the user broke a handle throwing. Amen
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seth
Member
Just Peachy
Posts: 977
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Post by seth on Dec 22, 2023 0:07:40 GMT
everybody needs a hobby, his is StumpThumping (maybe someone could write a song about that?) Maybe I should burn "Stump Thumper" into one of my hammer's handles.
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Post by glendon on Dec 22, 2023 0:35:48 GMT
everybody needs a hobby, his is StumpThumping (maybe someone could write a song about that?) Maybe I should burn "Stump Thumper" into one of my hammer's handles. (rofl) And then "Hump Bambi."
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quinnwaterfield
Member
I'm a blacksmith and a machinist, A machinesmith? A blackinist... wait no.
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Post by quinnwaterfield on Dec 23, 2023 2:27:31 GMT
this is why i refuse to make hafted/socketed items. Its impossible to guarantee the wood wont break and then your left owing a customer a replacement. Just warranty the metallurgy. Not like its uncommon for hardware stores to stock replacement hickory tool handles, its the same principle.
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