rschuch
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Sharp blades are good to have, if Shire-folk go walking, east, south, far away into dark and danger.
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Post by rschuch on Dec 6, 2023 18:08:52 GMT
I've been using thick gun oil for a couple years now and recently bought some Renaissance Wax which I'm new to. Will I have to clean the oil off the blades first before applying the wax or can it go right on top? Is the wax smooth and creamy and easy to apply or is it harder and going to leave chunks? Thanks. Any suggestions appreciated. Attachments:
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Post by madirish on Dec 6, 2023 18:55:13 GMT
Yes, clean the blades thoroughly with isopropyl. You couldn't apply wax over oil.
A lot of this stuff goes a long way, you are only going to dab your microfiber cloth into it and work it around. Shouldn't be using so much there are chunks!
Honestly, I have gone from Rennwax to oil. I had coated a new Albion with a couple layers of Rennwax and it rusted a bit while I was away on business for a couple of weeks. I've been a little dubious about it since. Right now, i have two swords by the same maker side by side on my wall...one with rennwax, the other with Break Free Collector and seeing how they work out. I;ve been using RemOil on my antiques
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rschuch
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Sharp blades are good to have, if Shire-folk go walking, east, south, far away into dark and danger.
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Post by rschuch on Dec 6, 2023 19:20:36 GMT
Yes, clean the blades thoroughly with isopropyl. You couldn't apply wax over oil. A lot of this stuff goes a long way, you are only going to dab your microfiber cloth into it and work it around. Shouldn't be using so much there are chunks! Honestly, I have gone from Rennwax to oil. I had coated a new Albion with a couple layers of Rennwax and it rusted a bit while I was away on business for a couple of weeks. I've been a little dubious about it since. Right now, i have two swords by the same maker side by side on my wall...one with rennwax, the other with Break Free Collector and seeing how they work out. I;ve been using RemOil on my antiques Really, so you switched the other way? I haven't had any problems yet with the gun oil I use, so maybe I should just stick with what works. I just heard some members talking about ren wax and thought it was better for some reason. Oil certainly goes on easily... maybe I can just sell the wax here or return it. I use Flitz for buffing any problem areas and then just oil them up and it seems to work well, and I'm in Florida so extreme humidity here.
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Post by mrstabby on Dec 6, 2023 20:26:18 GMT
It seems RenWax just does not work for some, for others it does well. There is a specific way to apply it which works (It should be mentioned in the booklet or on their homepage). Some swear by warming the surface beforehand, I found it to be harder to apply on a warm surface since it dries very fast, but warming the surface after application to the point where the wax gets liquid gives me a nice finish. I don't use it for the blades, but for the mild steel and brass fittings and there it works better than oil (though it isn't very humid here). It even seems to survive some handling, which oil does not. For the blade I use a mix of petroleum jelly and minearl oil. It's tasteless, odourless, protects well but wipes away easily. Had some problems with oil not sticking to a highly polished blade and it getting rust spots within days, the mix is more viscous than oil alone and sticks to even that blade. EDIT: It has a weird texture, it's relatively hard, like cocos fat, but gets more liquid with pressure/wiping. You don't need much, but it isn't like any wax or oil I had used before. It also dries, so don't leave it open too long and be swift at applying it (you'll feel when it begins to ry because it begins to tug at the cloth you use to apply, then you need to refresh the cloth if you aren't finished or let it dry for a minute and buff it to a shine.
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rschuch
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Sharp blades are good to have, if Shire-folk go walking, east, south, far away into dark and danger.
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Post by rschuch on Dec 6, 2023 20:38:38 GMT
It seems RenWax just does not work for some, for others it does well. For the blade I use a mix of petroleum jelly and mineral oil. It's tasteless, odourless, protects well but wipes away easily. Had some problems with oil not sticking to a highly polished blade and it getting rust spots within days, the mix is more viscous than oil alone and sticks to even that blade. Tasteless? Good to know in case I decide to use my arbedo to cut my steak! I cancelled the Ren wax order... I'll just stick with what works. Did get another bottle of gun oil of a different type.
Interesting mix and logical reason. I have my swords hanging point down so after a cleaning/oiling session I do notice after a few days the oil collects towards the tip, but I haven't had much problem with rust or spotting/pitting. I do have a military rapier and the basket hilt started to get some oxidation, but only because I only oiled the blade, not the hilt parts, so I Flitzed it down and oiled it and it's been fine ever since. I did have some issues with a couple of Tod Cutler daggers I had in their leather sheaths and started to rust after just a few days, but I store them bare bladed now.
What's the ratio of jelly to oil?
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Post by bwaze on Dec 6, 2023 20:47:54 GMT
I have used Renaissance Wax in the beginning in such a way I still got rust spots occasionally. Apparently it isn't a cleaner, so if you just apply it over metal that was handled there can still be acids and dirt below the layer of wax eating away at the steel. Or I just didn't apply it thoroughly enough.
Now I use it with Ballistol "all purpose" mineral oil, and lately also with lanolin based Fluid Film oil. I just use a bit of oil on a paper tissue, wipe all the surfaces, and then apply a bit of Renaissance Wax over the thinly oiled steel with paper tissue - I believe oil thins the wax a bit so it's easier to apply and I use much less wax this way. I only do this when I expect not to use the items for a longer period of time, during the season I just apply a bit of oil. Haven't had any problem since, but I don't expect my wax + oil protection to survive handling, I always wipe it with oil after use - but I don't have any problems even on two day events with hundreds of people touching the items, or even some light rain on my armour and weapons.
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Post by mrstabby on Dec 6, 2023 20:48:04 GMT
I have no specific mix, but it's mostly petroleum jelly, maybe 2:1, depending how hard the jelly is to begin with, just needs to be a bit stickier tan oil and less hard than the jelly for me. I like the no taste non toxic aspect, because I can put it on any carbon steel, even things that come into contact with food. It's also not bad for leather and wood.
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Post by mrstabby on Dec 6, 2023 20:55:03 GMT
... and then apply a bit of Renaissance Wax over the thinly oiled steel with paper tissue.... That's interesting, everybody says it does not work on an oiled surface, but I found as well that it does as long as the item isn't drenched in oil. It won't get as hard as it would on a clean surface.
The thing about the cleaning might be something some people miss.
I am not a big fan of Ballistol. It works, but it leave a gummy residue if left for a long time. Also hate the smell. I use sewing machine oil or food grade mineral oil.
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Post by bwaze on Dec 6, 2023 21:05:41 GMT
Yeah, the amount of oil after cleaning the items really isn't large, just a bit oily surface to the touch. I can imagine there would be a problem if applying Renaissance Wax over larger amounts of oil. But I guess my application isn't the proper "waxed surface", mixture of small amount of oil and small amount of wax isn't hard protection.
The smell of Ballistol was the reason I started looking into other solutions, but Fluid Film, while it doesn't have as strong of a smell, smells a bit like a wet sheep while applying. But at least the smell doesn't carry from the garage all over the house as with Ballistol. It isn't a problem with small area and small quantities, but after wiping an armour or two, three swords, poleaxe etc...
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Post by mrstabby on Dec 6, 2023 21:31:40 GMT
.... but Fluid Film, while it doesn't have as strong of a smell, smells a bit like a wet sheep while applying.... I can imagine, it's made from lanoline wich comes from sheeps wool. I have never used it since the thought of smearing sheep wax everywhere doesn't sit right with me. It has been used for ages as rust prevention. Not that bee spit is a nicer thought, but it smells nicer. I have also been trying out oils en masse because of smell and allergies, really happy with the petroleum jelly+mineral oil mix. Though if you get bad quality of either it can smell gross as well, it isn't as intense as ballistol. Just a slight smell of old motor oil. Some on the forum use carnauba based car wax, which also seems to work for them.
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rschuch
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Sharp blades are good to have, if Shire-folk go walking, east, south, far away into dark and danger.
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Post by rschuch on Dec 6, 2023 22:08:03 GMT
Huh, car wax seems like a nice choice! Don't know why I never thought of that... Next time I'll try it.
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Post by larason2 on Dec 6, 2023 22:58:23 GMT
I use renwax, but not for sword blades. For that I use mineral oil or Japanese clove oil. The renwax goes on tools and fittings. I don't use tons, but enough to just cover the surface, then wipe off extra with a paper towel. If you mix wax and a lot of oil, the wax will come off in clumps, no big deal. I get my renwax from Lee Valley, apparently different brands are of different quality. It seems to be environment related, here I have never had a problem with renwax. We're not very humid here though, and far from the sea. Of note though, I only ever put it on a surface that I've cleaned or polished with stones or magnolia charcoal, and both of these seem to resist rust by themselves. If I clean an acid etched funish off a sword with stones, it also seems to resist rust better. Oils seem to be a better agent to prevent rust, you wouldn't use wax to preserve sodium or potassium metal, for instance! But they have their place. I use them on anything I'm going to touch.
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Post by strigoil on Dec 7, 2023 0:25:52 GMT
... and then apply a bit of Renaissance Wax over the thinly oiled steel with paper tissue.... That's interesting, everybody says it does not work on an oiled surface, but I found as well that it does as long as the item isn't drenched in oil. It won't get as hard as it would on a clean surface.
The thing about the cleaning might be something some people miss.
I am not a big fan of Ballistol. It works, but it leave a gummy residue if left for a long time. Also hate the smell. I use sewing machine oil or food grade mineral oil.
Same on the oil+wax combo. My cleaning routine is clean off the old renwax with ballistol, very small amount tho just a bit on a cloth and then clean it. Then I rub in some renwax..I've had them waxed for 1.5 years before reapplying and I also dry handle them with gloves in the meantime, no rust and I live by the ocean with humidity between 50-80% most of the year.
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Post by madirish on Dec 7, 2023 0:45:18 GMT
I have my swords hanging point down so after a cleaning/oiling session I do notice after a few days the oil collects towards the tip,........I did have some issues with a couple of Tod Cutler daggers I had in their leather sheaths and started to rust after just a few days, but I store them bare bladed now.
If you are getting drips/collection of oil at the tip, you are using way too much! BTW, Tod warns not to store blades in scabbards.
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Post by larason2 on Dec 7, 2023 4:23:06 GMT
Japanese swords can be stored in wooden scabbards, but that doesn't mean they won't rust! But I agree, particularly with felt or leather lined blade protectors, better stored in open air, so there's nothing to collect moisture on the surface of the blade.
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rschuch
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Sharp blades are good to have, if Shire-folk go walking, east, south, far away into dark and danger.
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Post by rschuch on Dec 7, 2023 13:39:42 GMT
Japanese swords can be stored in wooden scabbards, but that doesn't mean they won't rust! But I agree, particularly with felt or leather lined blade protectors, better stored in open air, so there's nothing to collect moisture on the surface of the blade. Yeah, my katanas and jian I keep in their wood scabbards and just check them periodically. Everything else is naked.
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Post by mrstabby on Dec 7, 2023 14:09:01 GMT
Problem with leather sheaths is, they suck away the oil where they are in contact with the blade, and most have retaining flaps near the mouth, that's where the rust will begin (these flaps are the only place I had problems so far on leather sheaths, can't leave the blades bare because of intrusive cats but I do clean them at least every other month). Also some leather is not washed well enough after tanning and has agressive chemicals left in it, I have a sheath that can actually corrode 420 stainless steel....
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Post by carbon on Dec 7, 2023 18:02:50 GMT
Honestly, I have gone from Rennwax to oil. I had coated a new Albion with a couple layers of Rennwax and it rusted a bit while I was away on business for a couple of weeks. I've been a little dubious about it since. Right now, i have two swords by the same maker side by side on my wall...one with rennwax, the other with Break Free Collector and seeing how they work out. I;ve been using RemOil on my antiques I made the same switch a while back for the same reason. I tried RenWax a few times and, like you, wound up with small rust spots here and there after about a week. I tried CLP first, which was better than RenWax, then switched to Break Free Collector oil. The C/O has worked the best for me so far. I'll be interested to see if your results are the same as mine with Collector Oil.
FWIW, when I have the time I'm going to clean the blades and try Rig Universal gun grease. It might be a little messy but it ...should... work even better than C/O.
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Post by mrstabby on Dec 7, 2023 19:53:11 GMT
So interesting, that it does not work for some. I have only had problems, when I just put a layer on without wiping the old oil off first, didn't harden at all, rubbed off somehow and got a small spot or when I was too slow applying it. You could maybe also get spots when the waxed surface gets in contact with oil after curing, I think oil could dissolve the wax again. I have a cutter blade around I waxed a few months back when I got my wax, still rust free even though it spent a few weeks on the floor. Though humidity isn't that high inside, mostly 50-60%. But I know from experience that the floor makes unprotected blades rust quickly. I like the wax for fittings, but on the blade it is too much work to remove when I want to resharpen the blade. I also like the smell, smells flammable.
What I can think of is either high temperature or humidity making the wax cure before it is correctly applied, the cleaning product used doesn't agree with the wax or didn't evaporate fully (for example alcohol always has some water in it which might stay behind for longer) or a bad batch of wax.
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Post by madirish on Dec 7, 2023 23:45:14 GMT
Honestly, the Albion is the only one I've had trouble with. The few other swords I had at the time were also Renwax'd and did not have an issue, but it was enough to turn me off as I knew I had definitely put plenty on.
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