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Post by madirish on Aug 17, 2023 0:18:54 GMT
Also, you say you're a gun/knife guy. In that hobby were you able to stop at just one? You're definitely going to end up cutting a lot. My suggestion would be to go with a durable sword and play with it a bunch. Maybe consider one of the Windlass RA longsword (both of them are "anti-armor" sword, therefore tough) as a beater. In the meantime, maybe get a wooden waster from Purpleheart Armory to practice. I ordered an Albion Wallace mid-last year and it's still not here so you got a while to wait. I dunno....it's taken him 10 yrs to pull the trigger on this one! This makes great sense, though....buy your first one from Albion to be one that moves you and practice cutting with something less costly! It is what I plan to do now that I have bought a few things that made me drool.
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Post by eastman on Aug 17, 2023 0:39:23 GMT
If you buy a cheap starter model with a similar blade type to the Albion you order, you'll have 20+ months for cutting practice before the Albion arrives.
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Post by curiomansion on Aug 17, 2023 2:17:55 GMT
If you buy a cheap starter model with a similar blade type to the Albion you order, you'll have 20+ months for cutting practice before the Albion arrives. madirish This! It's not mainly the cheapness that I'm getting at. It's the availability. 20+ months is a long time! Enough time to develop some serious skills.
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seth
Member
Just Peachy
Posts: 977
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Post by seth on Aug 17, 2023 17:34:33 GMT
Personally I like concave disc pommels a lot for both one and two hand swords. The little finger of the rear (or only) hand locks into the concave part of the disc (with the raised part of the disc acting as a hand stop) and really gives you a good grip (and an extra finger worth of grip). Very comfortable and secure grip. I also prefer shorter grips (in both one-hand and 2-hand swords). The Crecy IS nice, and I would pick it over the Ringeck if I had to choose, but I would also consider adding the Sempach to your list. It's my favorite Albion hand-and-a-half sword... Sort of the evolution of the Crecy into a more anti-armor weapon (but that can still cut). Blade definitely meets your durability criteria with the strong hexagonal cross section and spike tip, and does not have a wheel pommel... And it's just beautiful. The details on the pommel, the swooping guard, the sleek blade profile and design. When I look at it, I always think an Elf in the Lord of the Rings would have used this sword. It does have a fuller that goes into the tang (as was normal with real medieval swords). Nice, tight, comfortable grip (though you do have the pommel if you want to move your rear hand back). Light enough for one-hand use (and half-swording), and pretty agile. If I was only going to keep one Albion hand-and-a-half sword, it would be the Sempach. (For single hand, it would be Burgundian or Kingmaker, but lots of concerns raised about the edge durability... I don't know). For the 'zombie apocalypse' scenario I would actually pick a non-Albion-- the Valiant Armory Vision Milan (reinforced hexagonal cross section, single-hand, small, light, agile). The different designs are really interesting to me. They handle differently, are balanced differently, have different strengths and weaknesses, different blade geometries and cross-sections and mass distributions, were made in different times to solve different problems. So I wouldn't worry about trying to find the 'perfect' sword, because perfect for what? When you realize there are a lot of 'whats' (full plate armor? mail? unarmored? battlefield? civilian duel?) and contexts, then you really start wanting a collection rather than just a 'perfect' sword. Or I do, anyway. I want to understand what the swords can teach me about how they were designed to be used, and the way they were used in their time period. What it can tell me about how a Norman fought in 1050, a Crusader in 1150, a knight in the Hundred Years War, etc. I'm not looking for a sword that is designed in modern times to best slice through tatami mat or water bottles or whatever... I want swords that are true to the originals (if not exactly, then at least in design and function) so I can learn from them. Albions are a safe choice because they are well-researched and designed, and usually well-made. When you get your hands on one, even if it doesn't feel great to you, try to understand what it can teach you. Because it is based on good examples of real swords that actually existed and actually were used as life-or-death tools. Also, if you keep an open mind you might find that you like something that you never thought you would. I had no interest in type XIV until I tried some... Now I love them. About edge geometry, swords meant for going up against plate in later times will have the most reinforced edges (hexagonal cross-section being pretty much the ultimate in that direction as far as swords that can still actually cut). A blade from an earlier period, on the other hand, might seem almost delicate, because it was meant for mostly unarmored fighting. And of course on a later period battlefield there would be everything from heavily armored opponents to unarmored, so maybe you want a versatile blade that can handle a range of types of targets rather than a specialized sword. And climate (heat) plays a role in what armor was used, and so what swords were used in that area. That's what gives us such variety and makes it so interesting-- the tradeoffs and compromises that were made. Another option-- Albion also has a new hexagonal blade longsword, the Sankt Annen:
It is more of a wide XIIIa type blade (as opposed to the narrow, acutely tapered XVII Sempach), and heavier than the Sempach, but might suit your size better (?). But both have hexagonal cross sections with reinforced edges. This one is not on Albion's site yet, but you can order it if you talk to Albion. I have heard no first-hand reports about it yet, but I can tell you how it is in a year or so Wait time with Albions right now is about 20 months... keep an eye on the forum classified section. The Sankt Annen looks pretty awesome. Do you have the specs on it? Thanks.
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Post by toddstratton1 on Aug 17, 2023 17:54:19 GMT
toddstratton1 My thought process goes like this. If an average size man can use an arming swords as a one handed sword...Sorry for redundancy. Then I should be able to use a bastard, or long sword one handed to the same effect. And two handed to great effect. This is why I only have 1 one-handed sword on my list. And although I am not a giant, and you are probably right about weight and height not being a major factor. I am pretty strong, which I think should have some effect. God I hate saying that, but it is a determining factor. My reach is not as much as yours, and I bet your hands are bigger than mine. Both these are things I was concerned about in my own self, so this is a relief to here that the shorter hilts can still be use to great effect by you. Which is definitely a different experience to what others have said on the matter. I have considered the barron over the duke and other larger hand and a half swords. I need to revisit it. Thanks I get it but a hand and a half sword is not designed with single hand use in mind. Because the handle is much longer than what is used for one hand. With an arming sword it locks your hand in place between the crossguard and pommel with less wiggle room. Also arming swords on average require more strength to use than Long swords, because they are heavier in feeling in the hand since used with one hand. There are also a multitude of sizes for longswords and arming swords. Some arming swords weigh well over 3 pounds and are quite big and hefty. Look at the Saint Maurice or some of the other Albion Arming sword examples like the Tritonia. This was mostly because it was also intended to be used on horseback or with a huge shield. At least for those particular swords. Viking swords are similarly hefty with a forward tip heavy blade. The Gaddjhalt is an excellent sword choice by the way. You'd like the Baron though for longsword options where it's at the heavier and heftier end and your strength will make weilding it easier. But one thing to note is swords are not really heavy weapons that require much strength in general, so really no sword is going to require you to have a lot of strength and size to get more power out of it. In fact when sword fighting you shouldn't be using that much muscle and strength to swing the sword around either. It should rely on technique, body mechanics, leverage, and allowing the flow of the momentum carry through each movement. Muscling your way through swings will just fatigue you faster and lead to injury. Where strength and size is more useful is in grappling range which is very common in fencing to use wrestling, grappling, etc when you close the range or in certain contexts.
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Post by tomtx on Aug 17, 2023 18:41:11 GMT
This was on Albion's fb page about the Sankt Annen: Blade length 35 3/4" (90.8 cm)
Overall length 44 1/2" (113 cm)
PoB 3 3/4" (9.5 cm) CoP 19.75" (50.1 cm) Weight 3.31 lbs (1.5 kg) It is one of their museum line, so closely follows the original sword at top of this photo (sorry, I don't know who to credit for photo, possibly a museum photo): In case some people are unfamiliar with hexagonal cross section blades, here is a closeup of the two swords in the above image: These have much reinforced edges over other types. It looks extreme in the photo, near the guard, but in most cases the thickness will become less toward the point so it can still cut pretty well.
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seth
Member
Just Peachy
Posts: 977
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Post by seth on Aug 17, 2023 19:02:42 GMT
This was on Albion's fb page about the Sankt Annen: Blade length 35 3/4" (90.8 cm)
Overall length 44 1/2" (113 cm)
PoB 3 3/4" (9.5 cm) CoP 19.75" (50.1 cm) Weight 3.31 lbs (1.5 kg) It is one of their museum line, so closely follows the original sword at top of this photo (sorry, I don't know who to credit for photo, possibly a museum photo):
In case some people are unfamiliar with hexagonal cross section blades, here is a closeup of the two swords in the above image: These have much reinforced edges over other types. It looks extreme in the photo, near the guard, but in most cases the thickness will become less toward the point so it can still cut pretty well.
Thank you!
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Post by tomtx on Aug 17, 2023 19:50:37 GMT
tomtx, Do you not find the disk pommel to dig into the your hand, especially on a shorter grip? And just by looking, I would not expect the Sempach to cut, but I didn't realize it was hexagonal shaped. I wrongly thought it was diamond. I could defiantly see Fingofin using this blade, as he hewed the Morgoths foot. Interesting. I have not heard of the Sankt Annen. That is exiting. Ill have to check it out. I was strongly considering VA, even more so than Albion. But that was mainly for the scabbard. Ive since decided to make my own. Now Alibon is back on the menu. Because of the historical accuracy like you mentioned.
About the pommel, it really depends on how it's shaped and finished... Some are more ergonomic than others. Sort of like pistol grips... I can say that the Squire, Fiore (same blade as Ringeck but with disc pommel), Crecy, and Kingmaker all feel pretty good to me. With some the edges are more smoothed and comfortable (Squire and Fiore) than others that are more sharply machined and not smoothed (Kingmaker). The Kingmaker pommel is also a larger diameter with a shallower hollow-ground part so the shape doesn't match with my hand very well (but the Kingmaker grip is extra long, so it doesn't really matter anyway). A lot depends on the shape... You will just have to get some of these in your hand and see what you think, but they can be really comfortable.
That's cool that you can make your own scabbards (probably a pretty good business opportunity with all the naked Albions out there...) But another option is VA-- they will make scabbards for Albions for (starting at) about $500.
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Post by murman1983 on Aug 18, 2023 3:30:50 GMT
Lionhardt, I appreciate it. The mercenary is really calling my name too. I also find the Squires taper to be slightly more attractive than the Knight, and that is saying quite a bit.
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Post by murman1983 on Aug 18, 2023 3:42:13 GMT
curiomansion,
Ya I'm from Texas and have skulled out (Europian mounted) several deer and pigs. Those skulls are no joke. Not gonna lie, what you are describing sounds....satisfying.
No, I didnt stop at one gun lol, not at all. Ive built a few, eh, they're modern day swords. Now its time to go back to my roots, waaaaaaay back. I think I'm for sure dead set on Albion, for now. Ill check out your suggestions, especially the type XVIIs.
Thanks man
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Post by murman1983 on Aug 18, 2023 3:43:36 GMT
Also, you say you're a gun/knife guy. In that hobby were you able to stop at just one? You're definitely going to end up cutting a lot. My suggestion would be to go with a durable sword and play with it a bunch. Maybe consider one of the Windlass RA longsword (both of them are "anti-armor" sword, therefore tough) as a beater. In the meantime, maybe get a wooden waster from Purpleheart Armory to practice. I ordered an Albion Wallace mid-last year and it's still not here so you got a while to wait. I dunno....it's taken him 10 yrs to pull the trigger on this one! This makes great sense, though....buy your first one from Albion to be one that moves you and practice cutting with something less costly! It is what I plan to do now that I have bought a few things that made me drool. lol Ya, this seems like the right move.
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Post by murman1983 on Aug 18, 2023 3:48:21 GMT
If you buy a cheap starter model with a similar blade type to the Albion you order, you'll have 20+ months for cutting practice before the Albion arrives. Holy crap, I never thought of that. Maybe even a VA, ( I know they are not cheep, and incredible swords) which is what I originally considered. On that note, I saw some VA atrims available for ship on their website.
I feel like when I used to look, years ago, atrims were not available, this surprised me, maybe Im wrong.
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Post by murman1983 on Aug 18, 2023 3:58:10 GMT
toddstratton1 My thought process goes like this. If an average size man can use an arming swords as a one handed sword...Sorry for redundancy. Then I should be able to use a bastard, or long sword one handed to the same effect. And two handed to great effect. This is why I only have 1 one-handed sword on my list. And although I am not a giant, and you are probably right about weight and height not being a major factor. I am pretty strong, which I think should have some effect. God I hate saying that, but it is a determining factor. My reach is not as much as yours, and I bet your hands are bigger than mine. Both these are things I was concerned about in my own self, so this is a relief to here that the shorter hilts can still be use to great effect by you. Which is definitely a different experience to what others have said on the matter. I have considered the barron over the duke and other larger hand and a half swords. I need to revisit it. Thanks I get it but a hand and a half sword is not designed with single hand use in mind. Because the handle is much longer than what is used for one hand. With an arming sword it locks your hand in place between the crossguard and pommel with less wiggle room. Also arming swords on average require more strength to use than Long swords, because they are heavier in feeling in the hand since used with one hand. There are also a multitude of sizes for longswords and arming swords. Some arming swords weigh well over 3 pounds and are quite big and hefty. Look at the Saint Maurice or some of the other Albion Arming sword examples like the Tritonia. This was mostly because it was also intended to be used on horseback or with a huge shield. At least for those particular swords. Viking swords are similarly hefty with a forward tip heavy blade. The Gaddjhalt is an excellent sword choice by the way. You'd like the Baron though for longsword options where it's at the heavier and heftier end and your strength will make weilding it easier. But one thing to note is swords are not really heavy weapons that require much strength in general, so really no sword is going to require you to have a lot of strength and size to get more power out of it. In fact when sword fighting you shouldn't be using that much muscle and strength to swing the sword around either. It should rely on technique, body mechanics, leverage, and allowing the flow of the momentum carry through each movement. Muscling your way through swings will just fatigue you faster and lead to injury. Where strength and size is more useful is in grappling range which is very common in fencing to use wrestling, grappling, etc when you close the range or in certain contexts. So you are saying I need a battle axe instead? JK. See you learn something new everyday on here. I didn't really know that about the one handed swords, and that pretty much defeats my theory. I was really leaning towards the merc for the reasons I stated above, now Im not so sure. Ill check out those swords you mentioned.
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Post by murman1983 on Aug 18, 2023 4:12:15 GMT
tomtx, Do you not find the disk pommel to dig into the your hand, especially on a shorter grip? And just by looking, I would not expect the Sempach to cut, but I didn't realize it was hexagonal shaped. I wrongly thought it was diamond. I could defiantly see Fingofin using this blade, as he hewed the Morgoths foot. Interesting. I have not heard of the Sankt Annen. That is exiting. Ill have to check it out. I was strongly considering VA, even more so than Albion. But that was mainly for the scabbard. Ive since decided to make my own. Now Alibon is back on the menu. Because of the historical accuracy like you mentioned.
About the pommel, it really depends on how it's shaped and finished... Some are more ergonomic than others. Sort of like pistol grips... I can say that the Squire, Fiore (same blade as Ringeck but with disc pommel), Crecy, and Kingmaker all feel pretty good to me. With some the edges are more smoothed and comfortable (Squire and Fiore) than others that are more sharply machined and not smoothed (Kingmaker). The Kingmaker pommel is also a larger diameter with a shallower hollow-ground part so the shape doesn't match with my hand very well (but the Kingmaker grip is extra long, so it doesn't really matter anyway). A lot depends on the shape... You will just have to get some of these in your hand and see what you think, but they can be really comfortable.
That's cool that you can make your own scabbards (probably a pretty good business opportunity with all the naked Albions out there...) But another option is VA-- they will make scabbards for Albions for (starting at) about $500. Ya Ive looked into VA for that very reason before, even though I don't own an Albion right now.
I've made knife sheathes before (double stitched, grooved stitch lines, welted, solid brass rivets, the works). I calculated what I would sell them for and the hours put in....It would have been minimum wage at most lol. Also, it is too hard for me to part with a piece when Ive finished them, so i just keep them around. So, it amazes me how people like Sonny can turn a profit with scabbards, then again he is much more efficient and has his art down to a T.
Ill check out those pommels. Ive always like the looks of the disks too.
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Post by murman1983 on Aug 18, 2023 4:13:20 GMT
This was on Albion's fb page about the Sankt Annen: Blade length 35 3/4" (90.8 cm)
Overall length 44 1/2" (113 cm)
PoB 3 3/4" (9.5 cm) CoP 19.75" (50.1 cm) Weight 3.31 lbs (1.5 kg) It is one of their museum line, so closely follows the original sword at top of this photo (sorry, I don't know who to credit for photo, possibly a museum photo):
In case some people are unfamiliar with hexagonal cross section blades, here is a closeup of the two swords in the above image: These have much reinforced edges over other types. It looks extreme in the photo, near the guard, but in most cases the thickness will become less toward the point so it can still cut pretty well.
This is some great information right here boys.
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Post by fayebarca on Aug 18, 2023 5:35:09 GMT
Ill check out your suggestions, especially the type XVIIs. If you do decide on an XVII, KultofAthena has a Landgraf in stock right now in satin finish/dark brown grip. Can skip the 20+ month wait. Or you could ignore this particular devil on your shoulder
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seth
Member
Just Peachy
Posts: 977
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Post by seth on Aug 18, 2023 15:21:16 GMT
Ill check out your suggestions, especially the type XVIIs. If you do decide on an XVII, KultofAthena has a Landgraf in stock right now in satin finish/dark brown grip. Can skip the 20+ month wait. Or you could ignore this particular devil on your shoulder Must...resist...Landgraf...Sempach coming maybe by Christmas.
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Post by toddstratton1 on Aug 18, 2023 16:42:44 GMT
Ill check out your suggestions, especially the type XVIIs. If you do decide on an XVII, KultofAthena has a Landgraf in stock right now in satin finish/dark brown grip. Can skip the 20+ month wait. Or you could ignore this particular devil on your shoulder I almost bought myself but the 200 extra in tax amd fees dissuaded me lol
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Post by eastman on Aug 18, 2023 19:42:52 GMT
Ill check out your suggestions, especially the type XVIIs. If you do decide on an XVII, KultofAthena has a Landgraf in stock right now in satin finish/dark brown grip. Can skip the 20+ month wait. Or you could ignore this particular devil on your shoulder
The Landgraf is a very attractive devil (mine has a green grip and blackened fittings)
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stormmaster
Member
I like viking/migration era swords
Posts: 7,649
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Post by stormmaster on Aug 18, 2023 21:51:56 GMT
If you do decide on an XVII, KultofAthena has a Landgraf in stock right now in satin finish/dark brown grip. Can skip the 20+ month wait. Or you could ignore this particular devil on your shoulder Must...resist...Landgraf...Sempach coming maybe by Christmas. why not have both?
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