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Post by toddstratton1 on May 31, 2022 18:08:23 GMT
Hey y'all, I was looking to pick up a sword for Iaito practice and training and wondered the difference between using an aluminum based training Iaito sword from Tozando, instead of picking up a real steel blade from Motohara. The reason being cost versus value, I am not sure how well those Iaito aluminum based swords hold up compared to real steel swords, although I know they require less maintenance. I don't want to spend thousands of dollars on multiple swords and would prefer having one very high end quality sword I can do most my practices with from cutting tameshigiri, to general training and etc. But if it is too risky for practicing the draw and cut from saya i.e. Iaito based draws for a real steel sword. Both for my hand health, and also accidentally cutting the saya, or wear and tear on the sword, I want to figure out if getting an Iaito practice sword made of the aluminum would be better in that regard and worth the investment or not? The one I am looking to pick up from Tozanda will cost me 785 dollars so not a cheap investment, want to be sure its worth it if I do that. Thanks!
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Post by MichaelRS on May 31, 2022 18:55:24 GMT
Here is this link. but the summary is most purpose built iaido swords, being an aluminum alloy, are lighter and just fine for for what they are used for... which does NOT include hitting or cutting things that need greater durability to do that www.martialartswords.com/blogs/articles/why-japanese-iadio-swords-are-constructed-with-aluminum-zinc-alloy#:~:text=Consisting%20of%20aluminum%20and%20zinc,of%20the%20price%20of%20steel.&text=In%20addition%20to%20being%20cheaper,third%20the%20weight%20of%20steel. One of the advantages of the lighter-weight is that it's less taxing on the joints so less chance of injury from the repetitive movements. Please note that less chance does not mean no chance. I've looked into this off and on over the last year and I haven't run across anything that says you have to absolutely cannot use a "real" sword for iaido... subject to your school's requirements. But one would think that you would want to do so with onr that has a more dull edge. I got this sword from Hanbon Forge to fart around with like that without risk of losing my limited number of fingers.. 2nd Katana - "Grim Reaper" - Iaito imgur.com/a/pCY8Ka9The problem with that is that it's not constructed in such a way as to make it most ideal or suitable for routine or long term iaido use. But it meets my limited needs re self entertainment <shrug>
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Post by novak77 on May 31, 2022 18:59:48 GMT
1- Ask your sensei. Not everyone is cool with shinken in the dojo.
2- Are you already using a shinken? If not, I'd recommend getting an iaito to start.
3- A good iaito (like one from Tozando), will last you forever.
Cheers
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Post by toddstratton1 on May 31, 2022 19:01:50 GMT
Here is this link. but the summary is most purpose built iaido swords, being an aluminum alloy, are lighter and just fine for for what they are used for... which does NOT include hitting or cutting things that need greater durability to do that. www.martialartswords.com/blogs/articles/why-japanese-iadio-swords-are-constructed-with-aluminum-zinc-alloy#:~:text=Consisting%20of%20aluminum%20and%20zinc,of%20the%20price%20of%20steel.&text=In%20addition%20to%20being%20cheaper,third%20the%20weight%20of%20steel. One of the advantages of the lighter-weight is that it's less taxing on the joints so less chance of injury from the repetitive movements. Please note that less chance does not mean no chance. I've looked into this off and on over the last year and I haven't run across anything that says you have to lie cannot use a "real" sword for iaido... subject to your school's requirements. But one would think that you would want to do so with a more dull edge. I got this sword from Hanbon Forge to fart around with like that without risk of losing my limited number of fingers.. 2nd Katana - "Grim Reaper" - Iaito 2nd Katana - "Grim Reaper" - Iaito 2nd Katana - "Grim Reaper" - Iaito
Yes, thanks for this info. For the purpose of the aluminum unsharpened sword it would be strictly dedicated for the practice of iaito draws from the saya. However the blade I would be using would be heavy weight as I need a bigger size blade that is only available for that option due to my height. I would have to get another real steel sword for tameshigiri and such and use that for cutting, and the iaito blade for just the draw from saya and training otherwise purpose. I probably wouldn't be practicing cutting very often either. As it gets expensive to keep buying the materials. Nonetheless Mostly I want to practice and train the draw from saya and technique training. From most Iaito forums I have visited everyone advises against using real steel blades as much as possible for regular training though. And the risks of damage to the sword, saya and otherwise from constant training and if you have the wrong technique on the draw and etc. The biggest risks continued to be mentioned from people is how dangerous it is to cut yourself training with a real steel blade during Iaito practice and that is my biggest concern. On another note, wow!! that is a cool sword you picked up!
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Post by toddstratton1 on May 31, 2022 19:07:10 GMT
1- Ask your sensei. Not everyone is cool with shinken in the dojo. 2- Are you already using a shinken? If not, I'd recommend getting an iaito to start. 3- A good iaito (like one from Tozando), will last you forever. Cheers I am not at a formal training school at the moment. I am looking to start with a new school but this sword would be for at home practice. I am not using a shinken now. Good to hear! Most likely I will end up picking up an Iaito blade to avoid any possible mistakes that could happen which could slice me open lol, and to avoid abusing a real blade and saya too much from constant practice and any mistakes I could make.
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Post by jyamada on May 31, 2022 19:08:07 GMT
1- Ask your sensei. Not everyone is cool with shinken in the dojo. 2- Are you already using a shinken? If not, I'd recommend getting an iaito to start. 3- A good iaito (like one from Tozando), will last you forever. Cheers ^ This.
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Post by jyamada on May 31, 2022 19:17:10 GMT
1- Ask your sensei. Not everyone is cool with shinken in the dojo. 2- Are you already using a shinken? If not, I'd recommend getting an iaito to start. 3- A good iaito (like one from Tozando), will last you forever. Cheers I am not at a formal training school at the moment. I am looking to start with a new school but this sword would be for at home practice. I am not using a shinken now. Good to hear! Most likely I will end up picking up an Iaito blade to avoid any possible mistakes that could happen which could slice me open lol, and to avoid abusing a real blade and saya too much from constant practice and any mistakes I could make. If you already have a school in mind, better to wait and know what their requirements are for iaito and shinken. i.e. ask the sensei. Even if you're just going to use it at home, if it's not suitable for the ryuha you're going to study, then it'll just be an extracurricular toy. Seen lots of new students that buy before joining a school, and find out their sword is not allowed in the dojo. If you're just going to self train at home, do whatever you want to do. It's good you're asking questions before buying.
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Post by toddstratton1 on May 31, 2022 19:34:39 GMT
I am not at a formal training school at the moment. I am looking to start with a new school but this sword would be for at home practice. I am not using a shinken now. Good to hear! Most likely I will end up picking up an Iaito blade to avoid any possible mistakes that could happen which could slice me open lol, and to avoid abusing a real blade and saya too much from constant practice and any mistakes I could make. If you already have a school in mind, better to wait and know what their requirements are for iaito and shinken. i.e. ask the sensei. Even if you're just going to use it at home, if it's not suitable for the ryuha you're going to study, then it'll just be an extracurricular toy. Seen lots of new students that buy before joining a school, and find out their sword is not allowed in the dojo. If you're just going to self train at home, do whatever you want to do. It's good you're asking questions before buying. Yeah, I was also curious if the difference between using an unsharpened real steel sword would be more sturdy than an aluminum based Iaito. As I know there are certain laws in Japan itself that lead to them using the aluminum ones in the first place. I just don't know the quality of those aluminum based ones or how well they hold up over time. The fact that they are made of aluminum and zinc sounded less stable. But I have never even held one myself to know what it is like in practice and long time ownership. Definitely it would be easier that an Iaito would also be allowed at a training school.
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Post by leed on May 31, 2022 19:41:03 GMT
Why not buy a 140 buck 1060 laito katana and practice with what feels like the real thing? Or buy a 75 buck 1045 sharp katana...which normally is overweight, and grind off the sharp edge?
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Post by toddstratton1 on May 31, 2022 19:52:40 GMT
Why not buy a 140 buck 1060 laito katana and practice with what feels like the real thing? Or buy a 75 buck 1045 sharp katana...which normally is overweight, and grind off the sharp edge? I could get a real steel sword and request it be made dull, or buy one that has a dulled edge as is. But I want a higher quality sword that is well made and balanced for long time use. Also spending more for higher quality means I am more committed to follow through with practice and training because of the investment. Katanas that are sub 200 dollars always seem to have a ton of issues spring up with them. And they just aren't well made imo. A cheaper Iaito is a good option though, its just again I want something of quality that will last a long time from a good maker.
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tera
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Post by tera on May 31, 2022 20:01:37 GMT
Aluminum Iaito are totally fine for all things Iai. They are not for contact, sparring, or cutting with, but if you study any Iai or Battou school, your Iaito will be what you use the most (possibly a bokken with plastic saya at first).
I understand not wanting to buy twice, but I don't personally recommend starting out with a live blade when studying Iaido. I don't know of a Sensei who would allow it, honestly. You can do a lot of damage with mistakes, and injuries can still occur with Iaito if you manage to get the tip of the kissaki moving linearly towards your body or off-hand.
It'd suggest a decent, but affordable Iaito in the sub $300 range and save up for a live blade when you're ready. I don't even own anything as nice in a motohara, but if that's in your budget it is a good choice.
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Post by JH Lee on May 31, 2022 20:21:45 GMT
It'd suggest a decent, but affordable Iaito in the sub $300 range and save up for a live blade when you're ready. I don't even own anything as nice in a motohara, but if that's in your budget it is a good choice. This is the best advice. There is no real reason to spend unnecessary $$$ on iaito. The budget option from Tozando (or Seido, etc.), in my experience, feels just the same in motion as the "pretty" one with the extra bells and whistles.
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Post by toddstratton1 on May 31, 2022 20:55:34 GMT
It'd suggest a decent, but affordable Iaito in the sub $300 range and save up for a live blade when you're ready. I don't even own anything as nice in a motohara, but if that's in your budget it is a good choice. This is the best advice. There is no real reason to spend unnecessary $$$ on iaito. The budget option from Tozando (or Seido, etc.), in my experience, feels just the same in motion as the "pretty" one with the extra bells and whistles. Yes this does sound the best option . As long as functionally the lower cost ones are well put together that would work for me. It is hard to find them in the longer length options though which I need based on my height. I will look at some of the budget Tozando ones though. I would prefer my bigger budget purchases to be real steel. As long as I am getting something that is functionally very sound at the lower prices for the Iaitos.
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tera
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Post by tera on May 31, 2022 21:52:48 GMT
I'm just one person, but in my... oh man, 31 years in Japanese martial arts I have never heard anyone say Tozando sold junk. To me, they are to the Iaito world what Bujin Designs is to keiko gi for Aikidoka. It's kind of gucci to be rocking one.
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Post by toddstratton1 on May 31, 2022 23:21:53 GMT
I'm just one person, but in my... oh man, 31 years in Japanese martial arts I have never heard anyone say Tozando sold junk. To me, they are to the Iaito world what Bujin Designs is to keiko gi for Aikidoka. It's kind of gucci to be rocking one. Oh for sure makes sense, I don't know anything about the Iaito market so I just wasn't familiar on quality differences between cheaper and more expensive products from these brands. I just know from previous experience and research that most the cheaper katanas and a lot of stuff out there gives people a ton of complaints. If I can find a budget or mid range price Iaito sword from Tozando I will be happy with that. I loved what I was able to make with the one for 780 bucks, but I don't know if I want to spend a lot on a sword that is isn't even real steel as long as the cheaper version is not prone to break down faster or give me other issues for being a "budget version". To me based on your responses and others here that the cheaper ones just have less fancy add ones with the swords that make it pretty but not anyway functionally superior or more durable.
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Post by Drunk Merchant on May 31, 2022 23:23:58 GMT
Tozando might sell good martial arts stuff but their nihonto are overpriced and they slipped someone a pricy tachi without mentioning it had a kitae ware “crack”. That’s a very minor flaw but still, other places give full disclosure and they didn’t apart from photos where it was out of the way and hard to see. True story.
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Post by toddstratton1 on May 31, 2022 23:33:46 GMT
Tozando might sell good martial arts stuff but their nihonto are overpriced and they slipped someone a pricy tachi without mentioning it had a kitae ware “crack”. That’s a very minor flaw but still, other places give full disclosure and they didn’t apart from photos where it was out of the way and hard to see. True story. Hmm well that is rather odd. Most their stuff seems to be made after orders are placed rather than in regular inventory stock from what I have seen, but I would certainly not be happy to pay for a sword that comes in less than perfect condition being that it is new. I don't know the market of Iaito at all to know what is over priced or not. I know some of their swords are CRAZY expensive though haha. But the budget ones and such I don't know if the material and quality is over priced because there doesn't seem much to compare to .
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Post by novak77 on May 31, 2022 23:49:06 GMT
It'd suggest a decent, but affordable Iaito in the sub $300 range and save up for a live blade when you're ready. I don't even own anything as nice in a motohara, but if that's in your budget it is a good choice. This is the best advice. There is no real reason to spend unnecessary $$$ on iaito. The budget option from Tozando (or Seido, etc.), in my experience, feels just the same in motion as the "pretty" one with the extra bells and whistles. +1 for what these gents said. I started off with one of these www.seidoshop.com/products/iaito-jisei-ajiro-koshirae-js003 that I used the piss out of, before graduating to a Nosyudo, then to shinken. Cheers
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Post by Lord Newport on Jun 1, 2022 5:19:01 GMT
1- Ask your sensei. Not everyone is cool with shinken in the dojo.2- Are you already using a shinken? If not, I'd recommend getting an iaito to start. 3- A good iaito (like one from Tozando), will last you forever. Cheers ^^^^ Best advice! Ask your Sensei. He may not feel you have progressed to safely use a shinken for kata. In my dojo, use of a shinken for kata / dojo training was not permitted until you had achieved minimally tested and achieved nidan ranking. Several higher ranked students iato regardless. As mentioned above, a bokken also was used extensively with beginning students.
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Post by MichaelRS on Jun 1, 2022 5:56:58 GMT
On another note, wow!! that is a cool sword you picked up! Thank you. I designed it myself from theit selection of custom build items, but I had to send them the font an image of vectors for the engraving/laser etching. Just for shitz and giggles here's the rest of my collection if you're bored. Some of the themes worked better than others.... Summary of my Hanbon Forge Collection imgur.com/a/ZPmFFjO
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