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Post by treeslicer on Jan 16, 2022 3:02:34 GMT
All talk about how pretty..... I guess that is most important to most of you. I'm not amongst your elitist group. My cheapo....1 dollar...Kat in 1045 cut thru fresh redwood 2x4, 36" long, with ONE swipe. 14 pieces spread over maybe 30 min utes. Plenty of discoloration, no bend or visible damage. Good enough for the job intended. The OP question was about subjective reactions to seeing and handling nihonto, not about how much slash and gash you can buy for a buck.
We've all got plenty of hardworking cheapies, but that wasn't what was asked about.
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Post by leed on Jan 16, 2022 3:29:37 GMT
Your priorities are apparent.
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Post by JH Lee on Jan 16, 2022 4:16:18 GMT
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AndiTheBarvarian
Member
"Lord of the Memes"
Bavarianbarbarian - Semper Semprini
Posts: 10,124
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Post by AndiTheBarvarian on Jan 16, 2022 4:38:58 GMT
I completely understand the passion for excellent craftsmanship. Especially if it can be seen in "simple" details and not in blingbling. I somehow expected there is feelable difference in handling but I also consider the bandwidth of handling within nihonto and repros.
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Post by treeslicer on Jan 16, 2022 5:18:32 GMT
I completely understand the passion for excellent craftsmanship. Especially if it can be seen in "simple" details and not in blingbling. I somehow expected there is feelable difference in handling but I also consider the bandwidth of handling within nihonto and repros. If you are referring back to your "blindfolded" question, recall that you asked about nihonto in general, and that "bandwidth" covers around 1000 years of differing sugata, schools, and individual smiths, which includes masterpieces of excellent handling, absolutely woeful dogs, and everything in between. The widespread practice of shortening or otherwise modifying once fine blades doesn't help any, either.
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tera
Moderator
Posts: 1,715
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Post by tera on Jan 16, 2022 6:44:52 GMT
This is just a general reminder for everyone to please be polite and treat each other with respect. It would be a shame for another good conversation to be lost to confrontation. Relevant forum rule: 4. To treat other Members, staff and moderators with respect at all times (in public and via private message) despite your personal feelings toward them. If as a Member you are treated disrespectfully or “attacked” by another Member, do not react to it in the same spirit but simply report the post to a moderator. The chivalrous thing to do in these situations is to simply ignore inflammatory comments – they will be dealt with quickly enough by the active moderator on duty;
So, as long as we can get along, carry on!
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Post by Drunk Merchant on Jan 16, 2022 19:46:16 GMT
The good news, they did build them to exacting standards: good blades/Wazamono were even in peacetime expected to survive brutal testing they took it so seriously feudal domains even publicly humiliated a famous smith because his “bundle sword” work didn’t do well in a torture test and gave all his orders to the winner. They’re also real good lookers, even meh cheap arsenal grade blades from the sengoku that Japan turns its nose up at - when they haven’t just been whittled away to core steel - are pretty good lookers: well organized Hada that blends with other parts of the blade, strong natural dynamic hamon that reminds you of coin luster and usually lined with things like nie. What they call art swords (also usually Wazamono too) even more impressive with weird effects like foggy utsuri. Most are also superbly balanced and nice to hold. ![D5D8C479-4D86-4ACF-9D40-DA22DA9B4814.jpeg](//storage.forums.net/1694914/thumbnailer/PpzDyvANfYSyrIoOewNf.png) ![342D8FE5-580B-4E2E-A262-D456B46C8216.jpeg](//storage.forums.net/1694914/thumbnailer/XgwiLqfmrzszPJCbakGu.png) ![EB6ABC6B-DF99-499E-9DA7-75A158218A30.jpeg](//storage.forums.net/1694914/thumbnailer/acetfhmVtJgFJyZtGFXg.png) So the downside (and it’s quite a downside) is that all antique swords are a dying breed, no one will ever make another real Kaga Kiyomitsu let alone a Kanemitsu. If you break one or damage one beyond repair then you’ve brought them one step closer to extinction. Even scuffing damage and tiny nicks are a problem as they take a ~4000$+ polish to safely fix and even then you’ve lost some of the hard outer steel and shortened its lifespan. So yeah, they’re pretty much relegated to eye candy, I’ve seen some nice looking custom Chinese smiths that come pretty close and get the proportions pretty good, so if you needed a sword for martial arts, probably better to run the replica car, than take your vintage Triumph or Mazarati on an off road race. Funny enough though, Japan doesn’t care: at least two pre sengoku swords I own were used by owners for tameshigiri and have scuffs and tiny nicks to show for it. Why I don’t know, but I do know it made them cheap. I’ve retired them though. If I ever have the urge to cut, it sure won’t be with something I’ll cringe over scratching.
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Post by AIKIGIG$ on Feb 9, 2022 20:41:30 GMT
Also curious on the "how they work"? How so? All of mine cut and handle very well indeed. How you would compare nihonto with motohara ?
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Post by AIKIGIG$ on Feb 9, 2022 20:42:39 GMT
What do you mean by "how they work"? Also curious on the definition of "how they work"? From a Koryu student point of view, my Nihonto are in a different league than my Motohara for Iai. Cheers How you would compare nihonto with motohara ?
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Post by vidar on Feb 9, 2022 22:48:48 GMT
I think Motohara outperforms many Nihonto, at least those of a similar price range.
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Post by novak77 on Feb 10, 2022 2:28:18 GMT
I think Motohara outperforms many Nihonto, at least those of a similar price range. I think this is a good summarization. For $3k you can get a really nice Moto, built to your specs, or for $3k you can get a Nihonto that will prolly need work. PS- I've bought $3k Nihonto, and they needed work lol. Cheers
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Post by toddstratton1 on Jun 28, 2024 2:20:04 GMT
Old thread here, but since I am in Japan at the moment cutting with Nihonto, and also cut with quite a few of Jasons Motohara katanas, alongside my own Motohara Katana I bought from him that I have not cut with yet. As a first obvious thing, every sword is going to feel different in their weight distribution, handling, and feel when using them. Whether its a modern sword or traditionally made Nihonto. I have visited some various sword specialty stores in Tokyo to try the handling and feel of some modern made Nihonto, but also got to hold some older antiques as well.
Its been a really fun experience to do everything here in Japan. And what immediately sticks out about Nihonto is the quality of the craftsmanship and artistic aspects of every detail in each sword. From the fittings, to tsuba, and Habaki, down to all the pretty details of the blade itself and the variation of the hamon, etc.
However when it comes to cutting there is one obvious larger difference that I am continuing to encounter and see when you compare traditionally made Nihonto to the Motoharas. And that is the fact that Nihonto will take a bend on bad cuts when you are using them without great technique. These bends will take a set however are very easy to straighten out after. I don't know at one point metal fatigue would set in after having a bend happen one too many times with the sword. However it hasn't been something I have seen or dealt with using the Motohara Katanas. Even when the sword was much thinner and lighter like a Light Mat Cutter from Motohara.
In Japan people have no choice but to use traditionally made Nihonto and they are beautifully made swords. However the downsides I would say for me are strictly just cost, as if you are using it for a lot of training and cutting it is quite a bit more expensive than getting a more budget range modern made katana you can practice with while developing your ongoing technique and skill. Something that would make me nervous to stress the sword out too much before my skills improve to a point that I make far less mistakes. Aside from that it would just be my concerns about taking too many bends with bad cuts using the Nihonto. As after a certain point I am sure it will affect the integrity of the sword. Modern made katana are not excluded from this issue though, some even have worse problems if they do take a set after bending, because they will be a lot less malleable to straighten out again, and possibly with more stress to the sword thereafter.
When it comes to other aspects of durability I am sure there is a wide variety in the depth of durability of traditionally made Nihonto and modern made Katana, and it has more factors than just the steel type itself, whether modern made swords or traditional nihonto. When you are just cutting bamboo mats, enhanced durability doesn't seem to be as much of an importance though.
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Post by treeslicer on Jun 28, 2024 16:23:18 GMT
Old thread here, but since I am in Japan at the moment cutting with Nihonto, and also cut with quite a few of Jasons Motohara katanas, alongside my own Motohara Katana I bought from him that I have not cut with yet. As a first obvious thing, every sword is going to feel different in their weight distribution, handling, and feel when using them. Whether its a modern sword or traditionally made Nihonto. I have visited some various sword specialty stores in Tokyo to try the handling and feel of some modern made Nihonto, but also got to hold some older antiques as well. Its been a really fun experience to do everything here in Japan. And what immediately sticks out about Nihonto is the quality of the craftsmanship and artistic aspects of every detail in each sword. From the fittings, to tsuba, and Habaki, down to all the pretty details of the blade itself and the variation of the hamon, etc. However when it comes to cutting there is one obvious larger difference that I am continuing to encounter and see when you compare traditionally made Nihonto to the Motoharas. And that is the fact that Nihonto will take a bend on bad cuts when you are using them without great technique. These bends will take a set however are very easy to straighten out after. I don't know at one point metal fatigue would set in after having a bend happen one too many times with the sword. However it hasn't been something I have seen or dealt with using the Motohara Katanas. Even when the sword was much thinner and lighter like a Light Mat Cutter from Motohara. In Japan people have no choice but to use traditionally made Nihonto and they are beautifully made swords. However the downsides I would say for me are strictly just cost, as if you are using it for a lot of training and cutting it is quite a bit more expensive than getting a more budget range modern made katana you can practice with while developing your ongoing technique and skill. Something that would make me nervous to stress the sword out too much before my skills improve to a point that I make far less mistakes. Aside from that it would just be my concerns about taking too many bends with bad cuts using the Nihonto. As after a certain point I am sure it will affect the integrity of the sword. Modern made katana are not excluded from this issue though, some even have worse problems if they do take a set after bending, because they will be a lot less malleable to straighten out again, and possibly with more stress to the sword thereafter. When it comes to other aspects of durability I am sure there is a wide variety in the depth of durability of traditionally made Nihonto and modern made Katana, and it has more factors than just the steel type itself, whether modern made swords or traditional nihonto. When you are just cutting bamboo mats, enhanced durability doesn't seem to be as much of an importance though. While using nihonto on your trip, have you experienced the noticeable improvement in ease of cutting compared to production swords, that Verity and I discussed in the thread about his trip to Japan back in 2018? sbg-sword-forum.forums.net/thread/54889/greetings-japan-swords
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Post by larason2 on Jun 28, 2024 16:58:13 GMT
Unhardened Nihonto steel is very close to wrought iron, which can take a lot more bends and bend backs than most modern steels. That's also why it feels so soft. It will work harden at some point, but it's not like carbon steel or most other modern steels in that way. Still, I totally agree with you better to work out your bad form with a reproduction.
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