Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 21, 2010 6:34:04 GMT
strapped heater is the final evolution of the shield before the gun put it out of buisness all together. it is by and large the best protection you can get. i always recomend that newer fighters use them. i never insist on it, but really recomend it. i personally started with a center grip round based on that whole, "pain is a good teacher" mantra, and it sucked bad. i did not stay alive long enough in fights to learn anything, and i often couldn't sit in a chair with arms for a week at a time. the heaters limit your offense a bit, but having fought many, many other shield types the truth is that it really dosen't hinder you all that much. as for mobility, i find that with the smaller shields you are forced to be mobile, and are effectivly "put on the run" where as with a heater you can choose where you want to go being as you are better protected and still alive. there is a reason that the heater shield is the most common shield in the SCA.
btw, +1 to anyone who can tell me why it is called a heater shield.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 21, 2010 6:43:58 GMT
strapped heater is the final evolution of the shield before the gun put it out of buisness all together. it is by and large the best protection you can get. i always recomend that newer fighters use them. i never insist on it, but really recomend it. i personally started with a center grip round based on that whole, "pain is a good teacher" mantra, and it sucked bad. i did not stay alive long enough in fights to learn anything, and i often couldn't sit in a chair with arms for a week at a time. the heaters limit your offense a bit, but having fought many, many other shield types the truth is that it really dosen't hinder you all that much. as for mobility, i find that with the smaller shields you are forced to be mobile, and are effectivly "put on the run" where as with a heater you can choose where you want to go being as you are better protected and still alive. there is a reason that the heater shield is the most common shield in the SCA. btw, +1 to anyone who can tell me why it is called a heater shield. It resembles a flat iron. Thus, heater.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 21, 2010 8:25:57 GMT
strapped heater is the final evolution of the shield before the gun put it out of buisness all together. it is by and large the best protection you can get. i always recomend that newer fighters use them. i never insist on it, but really recomend it. i personally started with a center grip round based on that whole, "pain is a good teacher" mantra, and it sucked bad. i did not stay alive long enough in fights to learn anything, and i often couldn't sit in a chair with arms for a week at a time. the heaters limit your offense a bit, but having fought many, many other shield types the truth is that it really dosen't hinder you all that much. as for mobility, i find that with the smaller shields you are forced to be mobile, and are effectivly "put on the run" where as with a heater you can choose where you want to go being as you are better protected and still alive. there is a reason that the heater shield is the most common shield in the SCA. btw, +1 to anyone who can tell me why it is called a heater shield. Actually, the final evolution of the shield is the buckler(which was STILL used with guns on the battlefield). Heaters were long out of fashion before guns became popular. If you died too fast, whoever was training you wasn´t doing a good job. They should have had you doing slow work for months to get you to be able to block. Even then they should be taking it easy for a while at full speed until you actually learn to use a shield. NO shield will do you any good if they beat you like a baby seal from the get go.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 21, 2010 17:18:09 GMT
I got beat like a baby seal from the getgo. And I do just fine...
...I'd do better if I could train like tsafa does, though. I just don't have the regularity in my training that I need.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2010 7:49:26 GMT
I got beat like a baby seal from the getgo. And I do just fine... ...I'd do better if I could train like tsafa does, though. I just don't have the regularity in my training that I need. Well I´m sure you would have learned faster had you not been beat like a baby seal. And you do use a rather large shield...just saying . Yeah regular training is a big help.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2010 19:05:45 GMT
Cold Napalm, if you knew just how much I actually DO train, you'd probably be surprised. I go and have gone months, even years at a time doing no more training than visualization. My most active training period was the year before I ran into tsafa where I averaged 2 fight practices a month (averaged; some months I didn't train at all).
I would Love for my schedule to settle enough for me to hit regular training just once a week...
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2010 0:05:53 GMT
Hehe, I know how you feel. I work in catering so my ability to have regular anything is iffy . This is the slow months so I should be training more...except for the storms keep getting FP canceled...and WMA practices canceled and...yeah I need to smack something damn it .
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 3, 2010 3:30:38 GMT
strapped heater is the final evolution of the shield before the gun put it out of buisness all together. it is by and large the best protection you can get. i always recomend that newer fighters use them. i never insist on it, but really recomend it. i personally started with a center grip round based on that whole, "pain is a good teacher" mantra, and it sucked bad. i did not stay alive long enough in fights to learn anything, and i often couldn't sit in a chair with arms for a week at a time. the heaters limit your offense a bit, but having fought many, many other shield types the truth is that it really dosen't hinder you all that much. as for mobility, i find that with the smaller shields you are forced to be mobile, and are effectivly "put on the run" where as with a heater you can choose where you want to go being as you are better protected and still alive. there is a reason that the heater shield is the most common shield in the SCA. btw, +1 to anyone who can tell me why it is called a heater shield. Actually, the final evolution of the shield is the buckler(which was STILL used with guns on the battlefield). Heaters were long out of fashion before guns became popular. If you died too fast, whoever was training you wasn´t doing a good job. They should have had you doing slow work for months to get you to be able to block. Even then they should be taking it easy for a while at full speed until you actually learn to use a shield. NO shield will do you any good if they beat you like a baby seal from the get go. k. i am sure that i read this in a way that it was not intended. the internet is famous for changing the intent of a statement. but... my knight was the guy doing the training, and i happen to think he did a pretty sempriniin' job. slow work has always been a part of the routine, but there is no replacement for time actually spent inside of the helmet. to be honest, had he made me show up to practice, and do slow work for months on end while i watched wars come and go, i never would have stayed around. i wanted the action of being on the field. at every turn my knight was by my side, giving advice, and teaching. my losses are my own responsibility, as are my victories. i will say no more on the issue. as to shields. the buckler, though a fun shield, and a hell of a good training tool, is not in the same class as shields like the heater or the round. when i think of shields of that class, i think of shields that would have been used by large forces of men during melee battles. my vote is still for the heater. btw, +1 to claymore
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 3, 2010 15:08:05 GMT
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2010 4:48:46 GMT
It was also, and more importantly, shown to have insufficient stopping power against a naked man hopped up on drugs in that same conflict.
Thus the development of Browning's Model 1911 which Does have sufficient stopping power against a human target regardless what he's on...
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2010 22:15:30 GMT
Taking this back to the first post, the scutum is actually superior to the heater or kite shields as defensive armor. The grip of the scutum was just a single horizontal bar either at the middle of the shield, or just below, which allowed it to be lifted from the shoulder exclusively. This meant that the hand and forearm needed to simply keep a firm on the scutum, and occasionally kick it out to punch someone with the bottom edge.
To block an overhead or diagonal cut to the head, the scutum simply required that you lift your upper arm as high as you could while ducking your head and torso to the side. Even if the blow was heavy enough to knock the top of your scutum backwards, that set you up to duck under your shield (which now prevented your opponent from bringing his arms down again) and dragging your blade across the backs of his knees or cutting his achilles tendons. In fact, that's why some scutums had the handle just below center, to make it top-heavy, which made that maneuver easier.
Granted, there wasn't a lot of side-to-side play possible, but that's why the scutum was curved. The correct stance is a shield-forward sideways stance, like a mirror of the modern sport-fencing stance. That way, the only direction to worry about was vertical. As long as your opponent didn't have a sica or some weapon designed to whip around a shield's edge, you just needed to worry about not letting him flank you.
Medieval square shields are not even comparable to the Roman scutum, as they were too small to offer the same level of defence, and often no better than a few boards nailed together. Of course, the style of fighting was completely different. Though, if you wanted to, using a modern reproduction of a single-hand sword (the shorter 11th-13th century kinds) would work well with a Roman scutum. That gets into the issue of drawing a longer blade from behind the scutum, but that's another issue entirely.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2010 23:59:25 GMT
Technology and tactics evolved to make the scutum impractical even during the Roman Empire. It had begun to disappear even before Constantine's reign. Replaced by a lighter, more maneuverable center grip oval (carried by Constantine's troops). The scutum limits offense drastically and slows the soldier carrying it.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2010 4:54:46 GMT
The technology that phased the scutum out was the stirrup and the advances in metalurgy that allowed for longer, stronger blades. The combination of better cavalry and longer blades suitable for use on horseback appealled to the Romans to a certain degree, but more so to the various barbarian tribes that used their increased mobility against Rome. And on horseback, a round shield is much less cumbersome. The oval shield that gained prominence had been in use among Roman cavalry auxiliaries for centuries. But it's common use toward the end of Rome was the result of splitting the difference between cavalry and infantry needs, rather than its defense benefits.
So, yes, while the scutum does limit your ability to attack, in that you can't really use it on a horse, and its weight of 22 pounds would slow charges or pursuits (didn't bother the Romans, though), it still stands as the best form of shield for defense. That it was abandoned demonstrates a shift in the military methods rather than a flaw in its design. As far as that is concerned, it serves the purpose of defense better than all other types, but at the cost of the mobility needed for one on one combat.
|
|