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Post by aspaulding on Jul 21, 2021 0:34:11 GMT
I purchased this dagger from an estate sale in Canada. The estate sale had a lot of Chinese and Egyptian artifacts. I was told it was a Manchurian warlord military dagger from the auctioneers. I can not read the symbols and I wonder why there is a pirate symbol on it. Somebody suggested navy but what if it's a cheap fake. Thank you for any help you can give.
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Post by aspaulding on Jul 21, 2021 0:38:41 GMT
The dagger is 19" long.
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Post by randomnobody on Jul 21, 2021 1:16:43 GMT
Now that's an odd bit of curiosity. It barely resembles a Manchurian dirk (Such as this one: www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/ww2-japanese-manchurian-railway-dirk-1823107373 ) but it looks like it's trying to combine very Nazi-esque symbols (eagle motif reminiscent of, but not exactly, Wehrmacht eagle, whatever symbol in the middle of the guard looking like someone had a swastika vaguely described and made an approximation) and pirate themes (Jolly Roger) with Chinese or Japanese naval dirks. It's weird.
Edit: I searched Google for "Chinese eagle dirk" and went to images, and one of the last images is an exact match of your hilt, but it's a thumbnail that links to eBay's page for "Tibetan Antique Chinese Swords for Sale" which brings up almost 600 results under "Antique Chinese Swords" so I'm going through to see if I can actually find one...
Otherwise, I'm having no luck.
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Post by aspaulding on Jul 21, 2021 2:03:58 GMT
Thank you so much for your help.
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Post by aspaulding on Jul 21, 2021 2:17:32 GMT
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Post by randomnobody on Jul 21, 2021 2:24:25 GMT
I'm not seeing any of the symbols on your dagger, on the dagger you linked, or vice-versa.
Your link is definitely a legitimate Japanese dagger from around WW2; your dagger...I have no idea.
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Post by aspaulding on Jul 21, 2021 2:40:37 GMT
The link has pictures further down. I guess it would help if I could read them.
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Post by aspaulding on Jul 21, 2021 2:42:54 GMT
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Post by randomnobody on Jul 21, 2021 2:51:19 GMT
Oh, if you're talking about the kanji in the illustrated diagram, then yeah, one of those is the same as what's on your scabbard, but only one. I don't know what it means, either, or any of the others.
I wouldn't think them relevant, though.
Perhaps someone more knowledgeable will turn up...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2021 7:15:24 GMT
I purchased this dagger from an estate sale in Canada. The estate sale had a lot of Chinese and Egyptian artifacts. I was told it was a Manchurian warlord military dagger from the auctioneers. I can not read the symbols and I wonder why there is a pirate symbol on it. Somebody suggested navy but what if it's a cheap fake. Thank you for any help you can give. Welcome aboard. The dagger is a complete fantasy.
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Post by Murffy on Jul 21, 2021 14:35:55 GMT
But whose fantasy and when?
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Post by aspaulding on Jul 21, 2021 15:46:31 GMT
Good question. Kinda of disappointed it's not real. That's what the auctioneer said. I guess I need to do more research before bidding. Thank you'll for all your help
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Post by Murffy on Jul 21, 2021 17:11:50 GMT
"Real" seems like it would depend on your definition. The quasi-Nazi symbols don't seem like something one would use for tourist trinkets.
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Post by randomnobody on Jul 21, 2021 17:36:38 GMT
Auction houses don't always know what they have. It's important to know, yourself, what you're bidding on.
I'm still annoyed that I can find a thumbnail match but it doesn't go anywhere. Very frustrating.
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pgandy
Moderator
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Post by pgandy on Jul 21, 2021 18:32:33 GMT
Remember that the Nazis and Japanese were allies and worked closer together than many give them credit for today.
After closing I decided that perhaps I should add more words; While I see nothing there that I would call official that does not excluded a private smith from making such a dagger and embellishing it with what they considered a well-intended compliment towards a partner. I am not saying that is the case but put that out as food for thought.
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Post by Murffy on Jul 21, 2021 19:00:23 GMT
Just thinking out loud -- the Germans and Chinese had pretty close relations up until 1937 when the Sino-Japanese war started. Chinese warlords bought quite a lot of German military equipment. I recently learned about a Chinese woman pirate - Zheng Yi-Sao - who was a force to be reckoned with in the early 19th century. A quick look didn't reveal anything like skull-and-crossed-swords symbols, however, but who knows. Picture of said pirate ...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2021 19:20:08 GMT
The fantasy is continuing to research this object as historically genuine. A timeline of less than thirty years and a chromium steel blade and crap alloy fittings with applied patina. One can place an association with Japanese and Chinese dirks but overlooking the obvious false nature of this object is basically further a waste of time. Start with Bud-K catalogs back to the 1990s.
Get cereal guys. Maybe Fruit Loops.
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Post by AndiTheBarvarian on Jul 21, 2021 19:21:44 GMT
There are nazi daggers the OP dagger probably is inspired by. I extracted and enhanced the coat of arms symbol, trying to search for it, yet without success.
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Post by aspaulding on Jul 21, 2021 19:34:03 GMT
I wish somebody could translate it. Maybe that would be the key.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2021 19:35:59 GMT
It is a fantasy cross type. Here is a modern "buy it now". 15 minutes I'll never get back. www.ebay.com/itm/132465747458?"but mine looks old and different"
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