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Post by L Driggers (fallen) on Jul 17, 2021 3:35:36 GMT
Let us begin with twenty more questions. What do you mean.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2021 9:05:51 GMT
Will we see an actual review in this thread?
What was the question again?
Does anyone else have relevant questions?
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Post by Kane Shen on Jul 17, 2021 18:03:32 GMT
Unhardened? So they forgot to even quench it?
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Post by shepherd214 on Jul 17, 2021 23:11:33 GMT
Anyone here that seems a little confused, or acts like this is even a little bit acceptable, let me clear this up for you. The blade should NOT bend like that and stay bent. A through hardened 1095 blade, properly heat treated, will NEVER bend that way and stay bent. This sword was not hardened. Withers something went wrong during the quench, or they didn't bother to quench it at all, who knows. There is no excuse for this. If you paid through PayPal or credit card I'd file a dispute immediately. This is shoddy, dangerous work. They didnt even test this sword for 5 minutes before they sent it to you. Like Lonely Wolf said, it doesn't take that much force to bend a sword that is unhardened. At all.
I also received my sword with a massive warp in mine. They didnt seem to want to acknowledge how bad it was but they did refund me my money. The grind on the blade also was no where near as good as their website photos too. There was barely a bevel on mine compared to their photo. Overall the entire thing was made poorly in my opinion, way too thick of s handle for example. They did offer to fix that though but the whole thing just wasn't worth it. Idk how they would have fixed the warp.
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Post by tommyh on Jul 19, 2021 15:18:47 GMT
I also received my sword with a massive warp in mine. They didnt seem to want to acknowledge how bad it was but they did refund me my money. The grind on the blade also was no where near as good as their website photos too. There was barely a bevel on mine compared to their photo. Overall the entire thing was made poorly in my opinion, way too thick of s handle for example. They did offer to fix that though but the whole thing just wasn't worth it. Idk how they would have fixed the warp. Maybe you should have gone through with the fix option. I read the other thread on this issue and I'm also very curious about how they would have fixed it. Would be interesting for someone who's willing to take the monetary hit to send their sword back for a fix and then retest when they get it back to see if the "fix" is really that.
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Post by Lord Newport on Jul 19, 2021 15:48:26 GMT
I also received my sword with a massive warp in mine. They didnt seem to want to acknowledge how bad it was but they did refund me my money. The grind on the blade also was no where near as good as their website photos too. There was barely a bevel on mine compared to their photo. Overall the entire thing was made poorly in my opinion, way too thick of s handle for example. They did offer to fix that though but the whole thing just wasn't worth it. Idk how they would have fixed the warp. Maybe you should have gone through with the fix option. I read the other thread on this issue and I'm also very curious about how they would have fixed it. Would be interesting for someone who's willing to take the monetary hit to send their sword back for a fix and then retest when they get it back to see if the "fix" is really that. Based on the same issue surfacing with this manufacturer from others, the manufacturer's unwillingness to cover any shipping costs it would just be throwing good money after bad. I suspect that they have a third party doing batch heat treat and it got screwed up...and they have to protect their "made from quality steel heat treated in our shop" marketing slogan and therefore cant admit the work wasn't done directly by them. That or whomever is doing the heat treat in-house is totally unqualified.
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Post by tommyh on Jul 19, 2021 18:36:39 GMT
Maybe you should have gone through with the fix option. I read the other thread on this issue and I'm also very curious about how they would have fixed it. Would be interesting for someone who's willing to take the monetary hit to send their sword back for a fix and then retest when they get it back to see if the "fix" is really that. Based on the same issue surfacing with this manufacturer from others, the manufacturer's unwillingness to cover any shipping costs it would just be throwing good money after bad. I suspect that they have a third party doing batch heat treat and it got screwed up...and they have to protect their "made from quality steel heat treated in our shop" marketing slogan and therefore cant admit the work wasn't done directly by them. That or whomever is doing the heat treat in-house is totally unqualified. You may be right, I'm just curious to see what they would do. It would have to be someone that didn't mind gambling with the money.
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Post by Lord Newport on Jul 19, 2021 18:43:55 GMT
Based on the same issue surfacing with this manufacturer from others, the manufacturer's unwillingness to cover any shipping costs it would just be throwing good money after bad. I suspect that they have a third party doing batch heat treat and it got screwed up...and they have to protect their "made from quality steel heat treated in our shop" marketing slogan and therefore cant admit the work wasn't done directly by them. That or whomever is doing the heat treat in-house is totally unqualified. You may be right, I'm just curious to see what they would do. It would have to be someone that didn't mind gambling with the money. Based on everything that has been reported about the company and its swords here...and given that these are not expensive blades to begin with, I think its all just a write-off (company and sword) and you move on.
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Post by Lonely Wolf Forge on Jul 19, 2021 23:56:44 GMT
I wouldnt even say it was botched heat treat, these are acting like they have absolutely no heat treat whatsoever, Even a poorly heat treated blade will generally have some spring to it, even in the 40s rockewell
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Post by shepherd214 on Jul 20, 2021 3:15:24 GMT
I wouldnt even say it was botched heat treat, these are acting like they have absolutely no heat treat whatsoever, Even a poorly heat treated blade will generally have some spring to it, even in the 40s rockewell I also believe this but I was just giving them the benefit of the doubt, as a bad heat treat still shows an attempt, whereas no heat treat indicates a blatant lie and scam, and I didn't want to accuse anyone of that. But yes as you say this is very much the signs of no heat treatment at all. Which is baffling because their ads show them hitting cinder blocks and a steel pole, so the market they are aiming for are the zombie/destructive crowds that probably will do dumb stuff with them. Wacking them on a stump or a tree branch just to make sure it's safe and won't snap or bend takes very little time and effort. And to the Tommy guy above, I had no interest in getting mine fixed because I honestly could have done a better job myself. I make knives and short swords and I could easily have shaped the grip better, and put a better bevel on my blade than the angle grinder they used. But there's literally no way they could have fixed the warp without replacing my blade or taking the scales off to redo part of the heat treat which I doubt would have been done. Plus I wanted my money back because for 75 dollars more, I could just get a Zombie Tools Zakasushi which is miles better in quality and aimed at the same market. Or for a little more than that, a low budget beater custom sword from various makers like Lonely Wolf or Valavian Edgecraft or any number of other makers. And I must restate that I did NOT have an awful experience with the customer service, they fully refunded the sword and my shipping, offered to fix several issues I had, etc. But the sword really was very subpar work even for the price. I knew I was getting a heavy and rough machete sword but I still didn't expect it to turn out like it did. It's a shame because the scorpion swords stuff is a really neat concept, sort of like a beefed up custom version of Cold Steels machete swords. They just need to execute them better and not be weird about who makes them. Because their website says "Made in the USA by Chris Palmer", but in my email exchange with them I was told "one of the other guys" didn't notice how shallow my bevel was. So I don't don't know who made mine lol.
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Post by Lonely Wolf Forge on Jul 20, 2021 11:51:37 GMT
I wouldnt even say it was botched heat treat, these are acting like they have absolutely no heat treat whatsoever, Even a poorly heat treated blade will generally have some spring to it, even in the 40s rockewell I also believe this but I was just giving them the benefit of the doubt, as a bad heat treat still shows an attempt, whereas no heat treat indicates a blatant lie and scam, and I didn't want to accuse anyone of that. But yes as you say this is very much the signs of no heat treatment at all. Which is baffling because their ads show them hitting cinder blocks and a steel pole, so the market they are aiming for are the zombie/destructive crowds that probably will do dumb stuff with them. Wacking them on a stump or a tree branch just to make sure it's safe and won't snap or bend takes very little time and effort. And to the Tommy guy above, I had no interest in getting mine fixed because I honestly could have done a better job myself. I make knives and short swords and I could easily have shaped the grip better, and put a better bevel on my blade than the angle grinder they used. But there's literally no way they could have fixed the warp without replacing my blade or taking the scales off to redo part of the heat treat which I doubt would have been done. Plus I wanted my money back because for 75 dollars more, I could just get a Zombie Tools Zakasushi which is miles better in quality and aimed at the same market. Or for a little more than that, a low budget beater custom sword from various makers like Lonely Wolf or Valavian Edgecraft or any number of other makers. And I must restate that I did NOT have an awful experience with the customer service, they fully refunded the sword and my shipping, offered to fix several issues I had, etc. But the sword really was very subpar work even for the price. I knew I was getting a heavy and rough machete sword but I still didn't expect it to turn out like it did. It's a shame because the scorpion swords stuff is a really neat concept, sort of like a beefed up custom version of Cold Steels machete swords. They just need to execute them better and not be weird about who makes them. Because their website says "Made in the USA by Chris Palmer", but in my email exchange with them I was told "one of the other guys" didn't notice how shallow my bevel was. So I don't don't know who made mine lol.
Zombietools are hella hardcore, even tho i can make literally whatever i want i am still a huge geek when it comes to ZT, i want one of everything they make Lol
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Post by smithgrange on Jul 21, 2021 2:56:10 GMT
Also, I need to point out that neither Kult of Athena, nor the SBG store, will post my submitted negative review on Scorpion. So both entities are hiding this man's poor handiwork. Because SBG's main contact is in China, I wonder if you weren't right about Palmer outsourcing his work. Is it possible SBG offered Scorpion the favor of outsourcing his labor when he came on board as a manufacturer? Is there a public tax document, or something in that realm, that could be accessed to find out?
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Post by tommyh on Jul 21, 2021 18:01:46 GMT
And to the Tommy guy above, I had no interest in getting mine fixed because I honestly could have done a better job myself. I make knives and short swords and I could easily have shaped the grip better, and put a better bevel on my blade than the angle grinder they used. But there's literally no way they could have fixed the warp without replacing my blade or taking the scales off to redo part of the heat treat which I doubt would have been done. No need for the "guy," my name's just Tommy😂 I agree with you, from what I've seen, it looks like they're really cutting some corners - MAJOR corners that can't be cut. But with their offer to "fix" the sword rather than replace it outright, I'm just really curious about what they would try to do to fix a seemingly impossible to fix flaw.
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Post by Lord Newport on Jul 21, 2021 18:07:37 GMT
And to the Tommy guy above, I had no interest in getting mine fixed because I honestly could have done a better job myself. I make knives and short swords and I could easily have shaped the grip better, and put a better bevel on my blade than the angle grinder they used. But there's literally no way they could have fixed the warp without replacing my blade or taking the scales off to redo part of the heat treat which I doubt would have been done. No need for the "guy," my name's just Tommy😂 I agree with you, from what I've seen, it looks like they're really cutting some corners - MAJOR corners that can't be cut. But with their offer to "fix" the sword rather than replace it outright, I'm just really curious about what they would try to do to fix a seemingly impossible to fix flaw. I suspect they would just give you another one and verify the heat treat on it. It is not uncommon at all for US sellers to get their first orders from china to be spot on to spec and sold to the US at below the cost to manufacture. As time goes on the Chinese manufacturer will start cutting corners to raise their profit margins and they will keep cutting corners until the US customer finally notices. By then, the US customer has at least one shipment of substandard goods with no recourse to china. THIS is far more common than the average consumer would think and across all industries.
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Post by RufusScorpius on Jul 21, 2021 18:42:32 GMT
.. It is not uncommon at all for US sellers to get their first orders from china to be spot on to spec and sold to the US at below the cost to manufacture. As time goes on the Chinese manufacturer will start cutting corners to raise their profit margins and they will keep cutting corners until the US customer finally notices. By then, the US customer has at least one shipment of substandard goods with no recourse to china. THIS is far more common than the average consumer would think and across all industries. I cannot say if that is the case with Scorpion swords, but Lord Newport is correct in his assessment. I have spent many years as a manufacturing engineer for a multi-national company and I have experienced this sort of thing first hand, so I speak from a position of experience and expertise. It is quite common practice for a Chinese manufacturing partner to "bait and switch", especially when dealing with start-up companies. It happens mostly when an overseas vendor is looking ONLY for the cheapest price and not considering other factors such as quality control, on-time shipping, and sales volume. There is no recourse when this happens, once the order is shipped it belongs to the end user for good or ill. No use complaining, the money has exchanged hands and the product has been delivered. Neither the US or the Chinese government is concerned about, or will get involved in, a quality management dispute between a supplier and a vendor or manufacturer- they are only concerned that the transaction was done legally on both ends. This is why many of us on the forum advise new hobbyists to seek out vendors with established reputations. While it's not 100% perfect, a reputable vendor will at least check their product before shipping and offer post-purchase customer support if things aren't correct. It is really the only reliable way we have of being assured that what we buy is good or not.
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Post by shepherd214 on Jul 22, 2021 3:50:06 GMT
And to the Tommy guy above, I had no interest in getting mine fixed because I honestly could have done a better job myself. I make knives and short swords and I could easily have shaped the grip better, and put a better bevel on my blade than the angle grinder they used. But there's literally no way they could have fixed the warp without replacing my blade or taking the scales off to redo part of the heat treat which I doubt would have been done. No need for the "guy," my name's just Tommy😂 I agree with you, from what I've seen, it looks like they're really cutting some corners - MAJOR corners that can't be cut. But with their offer to "fix" the sword rather than replace it outright, I'm just really curious about what they would try to do to fix a seemingly impossible to fix flaw. Lol my bad I knew your name was Tommy something but didn't wanna back out to thr previous page to verify what it was so I figured everyone could figure it out if I said Tommy guy.
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Post by snubnoze on Jul 22, 2021 22:34:52 GMT
My 2 cents and you can delete this comment if it breaks any rules, but I feel like the criticisms from customers who got burned clearly by bad swords and bad responses from this manufacturer are absolutely warranted. For the Admin of "Sword Buyers Guide" to run interference and shill for this company looks poorly on SBG as a source for credible sword advice (I still think they are regardless, but c'mon). For people to speculate "what went wrong" is only natural given the clear poor response from the maker on what went wrong. I don't see any of this as people acting as "chaos actors," I've been on forums of various topics since the 90's, you all seem very reasonable to me .
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Post by Lord Newport on Jul 22, 2021 23:39:01 GMT
My 2 cents and you can delete this comment if it breaks any rules, but I feel like the criticisms from customers who got burned clearly by bad swords and bad responses from this manufacturer are absolutely warranted. For the Admin of "Sword Buyers Guide" to run interference and shill for this company looks poorly on SBG as a source for credible sword advice (I still think they are regardless, but c'mon). For people to speculate "what went wrong" is only natural given the clear poor response from the maker on what went wrong. I don't see any of this as people acting as "chaos actors," I've been on forums of various topics since the 90's, you all seem very reasonable to me . One should always follow the money. Scorpion and SBG have a business arrangement...I would imagine that Scorpion may have even threatened SBG with litigation of the bad press continues... It is unfortunate that Scorpion didn't immediately send out a new sword and collect the defective one all at its own expense to put a lid on the problem. sbg-sword-store.sword-buyers-guide.com/functional-fantasy-swords.html
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Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2021 23:59:09 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2021 0:06:47 GMT
My 2 cents and you can delete this comment if it breaks any rules, but I feel like the criticisms from customers who got burned clearly by bad swords and bad responses from this manufacturer are absolutely warranted. For the Admin of "Sword Buyers Guide" to run interference and shill for this company looks poorly on SBG as a source for credible sword advice (I still think they are regardless, but c'mon). For people to speculate "what went wrong" is only natural given the clear poor response from the maker on what went wrong. I don't see any of this as people acting as "chaos actors," I've been on forums of various topics since the 90's, you all seem very reasonable to me . One should always follow the money. Scorpion and SBG have a business arrangement...I would imagine that Scorpion may have even threatened SBG with litigation of the bad press continues... It is unfortunate that Scorpion didn't immediately send out a new sword and collect the defective one all at its own expense to put a lid on the problem. sbg-sword-store.sword-buyers-guide.com/functional-fantasy-swords.htmlHow many other businesses does this forum have dealings with? How many did it USED to have? Have many vendors were driven away from the riff raff? Some of the most visceral criticism in the numerous threads on this topic is coming from other business owners, each of whom would not want to be targeted like this. These threads are becoming painful to read. I know, I know, "don't read them," but for goodness sake this forum is becoming a hostile place to visit. I think twice before posting anything anymore.
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