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Post by Cottontail Customs on Mar 30, 2021 18:57:22 GMT
To be realistic, what really drives many manufacturers and sellers to provide higher quality is money, or lack thereof, yes? if people keep paying you for the level of quality you currently provide, there may not be a urgent need to change anything. paying for lower quality over and over again will probably only encourage the seller to keep things the way they are. taking your business elsewhere, along with enough other consumers, may cause the seller to rethink their business model and make some changes.
someone constantly influencing others to buy from a source that doesn't deliver high quality will probably just help keep things the same, despite how many requests there are for improvements. why improve when you are making money anyway? of course I don't know for sure and it might sound a bit "blanket" but I have a feeling jkoo(and most other similar katana sellers) are not exactly spending months in r&d trying to figure out how to improve their products, just because they desire to be better. money talks, bullsemprini walks, right?
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Post by JubbeiSamuro on Mar 30, 2021 20:05:51 GMT
Hello Cottontail, I was watching Huawei reviews and your name popped up more than a few times. Can you please tell me if you have a site I can visit? Recently purchased a Huawei custom, hoping if you can help me make it more awesome? Thank you.
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Post by Stef on Mar 30, 2021 21:49:22 GMT
Hello Cottontail, I was watching Huawei reviews and your name popped up more than a few times. Can you please tell me if you have a site I can visit? Recently purchased a Huawei custom, hoping if you can help me make it more awesome? Thank you. |
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Post by Adventurer'sBlade on Mar 30, 2021 22:27:27 GMT
I understand and appreciate the perspectives of Brother Nathaniel and Lancelot. However, it is not an argument for disregarding the finer points of fit and finish and quality of construction, etc. A $20 machete from my local discount hardware store is tough as nails and can cut through both traditional and "abuse" targets with relative ease. I have literally hacked through a small tree with it, with no rolling or deflection to the edge. But it is also ugly as sin and does not have any rich tradition/history that saw its evolution into an optimized combat weapon. I would never put one up for display, because that's not what such a tool is for. Japanese blades are simultaneously art and weapon. What makes them artistic is not arbitrary but intrinsic to why they evolved the way they did. They are inseparable. A Honda will get you from point A to B. So will a limited edition Ferrari. Both are cars. One need not be an expert driver to appreciate what makes the Ferrari "superior," simultaneously as a functional vehicle and also as a collectible object of art. In fact, most people wealthy enough to collect such vehicles (I am not one of them) do not drive them. Ever. This does not change the objective superiority of such a car compared to others. Again, I think Brother Nathaniel and Lancelot are making important points; and I agree with them to an extent. But I also believe that fit, finish, and quality of construction should not take a backseat to whether the blade in question will cut things or not. Just my own 2 cents. Don't make the mistake of thinking we can't be machete snobs too 🤣 Because I read your post and thought "If I could just get you to spend $100 on a Condor you'd have such a better time cutting through small trees!" |
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Post by JubbeiSamuro on Mar 31, 2021 6:12:04 GMT
Hello Cottontail, I was watching Huawei reviews and your name popped up more than a few times. Can you please tell me if you have a site I can visit? Recently purchased a Huawei custom, hoping if you can help me make it more awesome? Thank you. Thank you very much Stef! |
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Post by Robert in California on Apr 7, 2021 7:59:11 GMT
Well, this has been a lively discussion.
Thanks everyone for your thoughts.
Appreciated.
Late now so pardon the relatively short reply.
Does Jkoo/Sino lie when telling me they source rough blade blanks from a single custom forge?
Well, I have not caught Van Yang ever lying to me.
Over the course of many (email) chats and things he has done and candid comments he has made over some years, have me at least, willing to believe him.
How to tell for sure?
Simple, go to visit for a week or two.
No problem on language...wife would take care of that.
Just not sure it would be safe for me...but if I could convince the family to include Longquan on a China visit, I'd sure go for that over the Great Wall and other popular tourist sites.
Already bought enough Chinese art for my desires.
Done some touring, could do more.
Short of that, its a judgement call...my read of Van Yang is that he is basically an honest guy, who is not the big boss, who has influence but not decisive control, who is trying to make Jkoo/Sino a better outfit for professional sake and to provide a decent living for his family.
I'm not saying all Chinese are honest. They come in all flavors like any other race.
Is there a mystic about gendaito's or antique Japanese swords?
Used to collect them, still have a couple older.
Main thing about nihontos that are affordable, is that the furniture fit level is way better than Longquan.
And the affordable ones can commonly have kizu's (flaws) of various levels of seriousness.
Smart to not commit to a buy before a careful hands on type inspection...so many "land mines" possible in antique nihonto.
WWII gendaitos used to be in the $300 to $400usd range in the 1970's.
Had some gendaitos and older that were pretty decent.
Others that were disappointing...tired old blades, temper soft enough to easily bend on a bad cut on stuff like 1/2" diameter green bamboo or even pampas (sp?) grass stalks and dulled fast. Hard to find longer gendaitos. Longest I found were 27.5" and most gendaito 26" plus/minus an inch. Poor condition WWII furniture. Bad polishes that hid flaws at worst and were a pain to polish at best. Poor polishes that looked good at arm's length but that had flat areas and older blades that had been bent and straightened (99%) times so the blade was no longer perfectly straight, a really nice masame hada katana with a brittle edge that easily got micro chips (about $1,200usd in the mid 1970's, now probably a lot more...everything less expensive back then), and so on.
Remember, a modern T10 DH blade is probably functionally the equal in performance, if shaped and polished right, to a run of the mill nihonto...back then, Japanese blades started with pretty sad material (high iron content sand) and were a case of making diamonds out of coal. They did amazing work with with they had to work with back then.
Nihonto mystic is over hyped. Nihonto tend to be blades, easily scratched, dented, dulled, chipped, bent and rust lovers. There is a reason the old, top grade nihonto blades are keep and treated with "white gloves" care. Quality, history and one easily done scratch or ding drops value significantly.
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karl j
Manufacturer/Vendor
Posts: 174
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Post by karl j on Apr 7, 2021 15:13:06 GMT
RiC,
While modern tool steels, can be made into great blades. Longquan are not.
I don't care which "forge" or retailer or whoever, they are not shaped right, polished right, nakago are not right. Fittings are cheap casted junk etc.. I could go on to the nth degree.
In no way shape or form is any longquan blade a better buy than an "affordable nihonto", speaking strictly from the appreciation of a Japanese Sword as a Japanese Sword.
From a JSA standpoint I'd say someone is better off with a really nice boken than a longquan blade. There are some production swords that make fine tools for training. They are not coming out of longquan.
Then again my opinion is probably invalid here, as the average Sword here is not something I'd buy, sell or work on.
You wrote an initial post that was detailed and in depth on what you do to get a sword from these guys, my much belabored point is you shouldn't have to.
Buy better swords.
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Post by shepherd214 on Apr 8, 2021 2:24:45 GMT
RiC, While modern tool steels, can be made into great blades. Longquan are not. I don't care which "forge" or retailer or whoever, they are not shaped right, polished right, nakago are not right. Fittings are cheap casted junk etc.. I could go on to the nth degree. In no way shape or form is any longquan blade a better buy than an "affordable nihonto", speaking strictly from the appreciation of a Japanese Sword as a Japanese Sword. From a JSA standpoint I'd say someone is better off with a really nice boken than a longquan blade. There are some production swords that make fine tools for training. They are not coming out of longquan. Then again my opinion is probably invalid here, as the average Sword here is not something I'd buy, sell or work on. You wrote an initial post that was detailed and in depth on what you do to get a sword from these guys, my much belabored point is you shouldn't have to. Buy better swords. While its not the majority, there are some nice blades coming from Longquan, so that's incorrect. |
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karl j
Manufacturer/Vendor
Posts: 174
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Post by karl j on Apr 8, 2021 3:00:55 GMT
RiC, While modern tool steels, can be made into great blades. Longquan are not. I don't care which "forge" or retailer or whoever, they are not shaped right, polished right, nakago are not right. Fittings are cheap casted junk etc.. I could go on to the nth degree. In no way shape or form is any longquan blade a better buy than an "affordable nihonto", speaking strictly from the appreciation of a Japanese Sword as a Japanese Sword. From a JSA standpoint I'd say someone is better off with a really nice boken than a longquan blade. There are some production swords that make fine tools for training. They are not coming out of longquan. Then again my opinion is probably invalid here, as the average Sword here is not something I'd buy, sell or work on. You wrote an initial post that was detailed and in depth on what you do to get a sword from these guys, my much belabored point is you shouldn't have to. Buy better swords. While its not the majority, there are some nice blades coming from Longquan, so that's incorrect. You're entitled to your opinion, as I am mine. Somehow I don't think your version of "nice" is in the same ballpark as mine. There is nothing coming out of long Quan, I would buy, sell or polish, as I stated above. Lip stick on pigs and all. |
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Post by Cottontail Customs on Apr 8, 2021 3:20:50 GMT
RiC, While modern tool steels, can be made into great blades. Longquan are not. I don't care which "forge" or retailer or whoever, they are not shaped right, polished right, nakago are not right. Fittings are cheap casted junk etc.. I could go on to the nth degree. In no way shape or form is any longquan blade a better buy than an "affordable nihonto", speaking strictly from the appreciation of a Japanese Sword as a Japanese Sword. From a JSA standpoint I'd say someone is better off with a really nice boken than a longquan blade. There are some production swords that make fine tools for training. They are not coming out of longquan. Then again my opinion is probably invalid here, as the average Sword here is not something I'd buy, sell or work on. You wrote an initial post that was detailed and in depth on what you do to get a sword from these guys, my much belabored point is you shouldn't have to. Buy better swords. While its not the majority, there are some nice blades coming from Longquan, so that's incorrect. Agreed |
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Post by treeslicer on Apr 8, 2021 4:12:33 GMT
RiC, While modern tool steels, can be made into great blades. Longquan are not. I don't care which "forge" or retailer or whoever, they are not shaped right, polished right, nakago are not right. Fittings are cheap casted junk etc.. I could go on to the nth degree. In no way shape or form is any longquan blade a better buy than an "affordable nihonto", speaking strictly from the appreciation of a Japanese Sword as a Japanese Sword. From a JSA standpoint I'd say someone is better off with a really nice boken than a longquan blade. There are some production swords that make fine tools for training. They are not coming out of longquan. Then again my opinion is probably invalid here, as the average Sword here is not something I'd buy, sell or work on. You wrote an initial post that was detailed and in depth on what you do to get a sword from these guys, my much belabored point is you shouldn't have to. Buy better swords. While its not the majority, there are some nice blades coming from Longquan, so that's incorrect. While its not the majority, there are some nice blades coming from Longquan, so that's incorrect. Agreed Yup. Pick the Longquan blade in this group: 
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Post by Robert in California on Apr 8, 2021 4:55:51 GMT
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Post by Robert in California on Apr 8, 2021 5:00:10 GMT
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Post by shepherd214 on Apr 8, 2021 6:30:56 GMT
While its not the majority, there are some nice blades coming from Longquan, so that's incorrect. You're entitled to your opinion, as I am mine. Somehow I don't think your version of "nice" is in the same ballpark as mine. There is nothing coming out of long Quan, I would buy, sell or polish, as I stated above. Lip stick on pigs and all. That may be but it's factually incorrect. You can not like them all you want, but many of us have tested them and they function very well for what a katana is designed to do. So it's a fact that there's good ones. It's your opinion that you don't like that fact. Which is fine. |
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Post by Robert in California on Apr 8, 2021 13:42:07 GMT
Say Karl, could you make a buy suggestion or two?
And maybe give some price range info on what you are suggesting instead of anything from Longquan?
(sincere question...not teasing you here....you have good knowledge and reasonably high standards....it would be good info to have to get a few recommendations that you view as good swords and maybe some rough estimates to help folks who are interested and would like a price target to save up for a good sword instead of these budget Longquan swords.
Thanks!
RinC
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karl j
Manufacturer/Vendor
Posts: 174
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Post by karl j on Apr 8, 2021 14:23:58 GMT
Say Karl, could you make a buy suggestion or two? And maybe give some price range info on what you are suggesting instead of anything from Longquan? (sincere question...not teasing you here....you have good knowledge and reasonably high standards....it would be good info to have to get a few recommendations that you view as good swords and maybe some rough estimates to help folks who are interested and would like a price target to save up for a good sword instead of these budget Longquan swords. Thanks! RinC RiC, that's fair I'll bite. Iaito: meirin, tozando, seido, prices depend on what the user would like the koshirae to be. 1500 to bonkers. Serious jsa cutting: kotetsu, evolution blades seem to be popular, but I have not had one in hand yet. Custom. A pre closure and re-open bugei, but remounted. Pre-fire certain hanwei blades remounted. Blade length depended on what your sensei recommends. Further production level, but again I'd caveat a good full remount, blade balance can be subjective, but dynasty forge/ fred Chen blades are serviceable. If these are made in long quan I was not aware Appreciation: nihonto or pick a Smith. For example there recently was a Nagamitsu gunto in the classifieds. While short, re mounted would be a beautiful sword for under 4k. Budgetary: that's tough, deals can be had if looking. If pressed to throw a number at the wall, for a live blade and not an iaito.. Training blade: 2k and up Appreciation: hard to pin a number on, hopefully token Kai will be a thing again, go to shows, learn, find something you like and go after it. Or find a Smith who's work speaks to you and either get a blade made or find one on the market. Deals to be had. If unfortunately you are like me and prefer soshu blades, not many bargains ... There are plenty of reasonably priced nihonto available, but again I think a starting budget there probably 3k and up |
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Post by Robert in California on Apr 9, 2021 6:18:21 GMT
Thanks Karl.
Good info and the rough price ranges is valuable info.
Gives a "savings target" for those interested in a more serious service sword.
I was today, looking at my older Katana1989 27.5" mono T10 midare katana.
Furniture was basement bargain.
I see tsuka had panels of rayskin...not full wrap.
Habaki fit good, dittos saya and tsuka fit...so workmanship not bad for a sword I bought for about $200.
The blade was actually quite good for a longquan.
But examining it closely, were I a serious student instead of the occasional water bottle cutter than I am, I'd need a new, good tsuka and might go for a new saya...fit pretty ok but no horn anywhere...minimal materials.
So...keep the blade and toss the rest.
It does seem like a new USA-made tsuka and saya, not counting the fittings cost, would run me at least $1,000usd.
So having family expenses not insignificant, looks like I got to stay with $300usd type swords...even though they would be judged perhaps as "light duty only" by a serious student.
But then again, out of all of us here that are members, how many are serious students?
RinC
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