Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 23, 2020 18:24:45 GMT
As I stated in another thread, I just commissioned our friend Purna Darnal to make me a Roman-style sword. I decided not to go with a gladius, but with a reproduction spatha. The particular type of spatha I went with has not been reproduced to the best of my knowledge. This is the Nauportus spatha, which was found in Egypt in 2006.
The sword has a rather dubious date of around 100 B.C., but it appears to be an earlier blade that was modified with asiatic style ebony hilt components, although only the pommel survives. It has a LONG blade (about 30 inches) and is uniformly thick at 5.5mm apart from the middle section, which is 4.9mm. So it must have been a stiff, stabby sort of blade with a diamond cross-section. It weighs 1.3kg with what remains of the hilt, so it must have been fairly heavy in it's prime.
I have elected to commission a reproduction based on what it ORIGINALLY could have looked like. It is unclear where the sword's point of origin was, but the archaeologists conclude that it was likely based on gladius Hispaniensis, which was the basis for the Mainz gladius. Hispaniensis was a sword type that many cultures adopted. What's unique about the Nauportus spatha is how waisted the blade is. It's 58mm at the widest points and 41.9mm at the most narrow, and the last third of the blade is the point.
Here is a look at the original:
Here is a sketch that attempts to reconstruct the sword based on its final appearance:
And here is Purna's sketch of a plausible reconstruction of what it originally looked like:
The hilt is not typical of the Hispaniensis swords, but is quite typical of the Mainz gladius types. I think the Romans took Hispaniensis and refined the hilt components to be more round or ovoid in shape, which is more comfortable.
The sword is interesting here. Purna's sketch is not as waisted as the archaeological find. You see, I have this silly theory, that the waisting feature on many of these swords may have been caused be reprofiling the blade retroactively. In other words, as the sword was used over and over and over again, the edge would be honed over and over again until it developed a waisted effect. I know this is silly and is purely an assumption, but I wonder if the effect was created SOMETIMES, not all the time, by reprofiling the blade after much use.
What do you think? Am I mad?
|
|
|
|
Post by Eric Bergeron on Dec 23, 2020 18:39:06 GMT
I like this a lot! can't wait to see how it comes out, are you doing a scabbard as well or just the sword?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 23, 2020 18:49:20 GMT
I like this a lot! can't wait to see how it comes out, are you doing a scabbard as well or just the sword? He's going to attempt a scabbard. I had a little trouble understanding him, but I think he is insecure about all the brass metalwork that goes into making an authentic replica scabbard. He also said carved wood scabbards are more time consuming for him, and given that his domestic hardwoods are all dense exotic hardwoods, I can understand why. So, it appears he is electing to go for scabbard that is his usual style, which is goat leather wrapped over veneers (is it fair to call them veneers?), but with brass metalwork. Not exactly authentic, but not bad. |
|
|
|
Post by Eric Bergeron on Dec 23, 2020 18:56:54 GMT
Yeah that's what I encountered with him as well so I just went with the gladius and he is making a scabbard to just transport the blade in shipping.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 23, 2020 19:02:50 GMT
Yeah that's what I encountered with him as well so I just went with the gladius and he is making a scabbard to just transport the blade in shipping. It's a good deal if you ask me. I don't reenact, but I understand how that would be a point of contention if I did. Having said that, we know what their scabbards looked like, we know how they were constructed, we know they liked these tin plates and brass rings, blah blah. If he makes me a wood core scabbard wrapped in leather, which is what the Romans did, and he has all the brass work without the rings or the tin plates, is that REALLY inauthentic? I think there's a fine line here. |
|
|
|
Post by Eric Bergeron on Dec 23, 2020 19:07:11 GMT
That is true, I am going to get my Albion a scabbard from Christian Fletcher just because its an Albion and I want at least a nice looking scabbard for my Tiberius.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 23, 2020 19:10:43 GMT
That is true, I am going to get my Albion a scabbard from Christian Fletcher just because its an Albion and I want at least a nice looking scabbard for my Tiberius. Roman style blades are not necessarily that difficult to reproduce, but one has many opportunities to make mistakes. I explained to Purna I wanted the point to be strong, but it doesn't have to be 5.5mm thick in order to be strong. Our steel is vastly superior to the originals, so a point that is 3.0mm thick today can be stronger than a point that was 5.5mm back then. I don't make a fuss about things like that. I think those details are silly.
The scabbard, on the other hand, is a slight point of contention with me, but I am not going to make a fuss when I am a) not a reenactor, and b) there are plenty of people out there who can make me an authentic scabbard IF it means that much to me. It looks like you feel the same.
|
|
|
|
Post by Eric Bergeron on Dec 23, 2020 19:52:03 GMT
I just actually bought the MG legionary mainz gladius with black scabbard from KoA, we will see how it turns out for my Tiberius.
|
|
|
|
Post by soulfromheart on Dec 23, 2020 20:10:23 GMT
This looks really promising !  |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 24, 2020 12:49:54 GMT
Purna showed me that. Your sword is up next, mine will follow after, like twins. You can name yours Cersei and I can name mine Jaime.
|
|
|
|
Post by Eric Bergeron on Dec 24, 2020 17:34:07 GMT
Get a room :P
|
|
|
|
Post by Dragoon on Dec 24, 2020 22:39:38 GMT
This looks like being an interesting sword, nice to see some more variation on Roman blade types.
On the waisted blade theory, there seem to be three ideas that I've read about: one is that it was down to sharpening, another that it could be possible corrosion, and third, that's how they were made.
I doubt we'll ever know for sure, but your idea does have merit. Good luck with your new blade, and looking forward to seeing it completed.
Dave.
|
|
Jash
Member
"Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum!"
Posts: 299
|
Post by Jash on Dec 25, 2020 0:20:17 GMT
Haha the first thought I had after seeing Eric's thread on his gladius was "I wonder what a Spatha by Purna will look like?". And here we go lol. Looking forward to seeing updates on this project!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2020 18:32:41 GMT
Purna shared this update with me yesterday...   Although it looks nearly finished, he told me the easy part is over, and that it will take some time to complete all of the minor details and the scabbard. |
|
|
|
Post by Eric Bergeron on Dec 27, 2020 19:34:36 GMT
Looks amazing :) can't wait to see the finished product.
|
|
Jash
Member
"Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum!"
Posts: 299
|
Post by Jash on Dec 28, 2020 22:54:46 GMT
I'm really liking this one piece hilt construction idea. Looks great so far!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 1, 2021 1:53:37 GMT
My blade is coming along. The weight with the hilt will be around 1200g, or 2.6lb, which is exactly correct for this type of sword. It's amazing to me how he is bang on the money without having made a spatha before, and it's already a damn good attempt at reconstructing this sword.  |
|
|
|
Post by Eric Bergeron on Jan 1, 2021 1:55:21 GMT
Nice I can't wait to see it all completed.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 1, 2021 2:00:28 GMT
Nice I can't wait to see it all completed. I paid him extra to make a wood scabbard. He mentioned metal fittings, so I am curious to see what he comes up with. I think he can do it, he's just a little nervous. |
|
|
|
Post by Eric Bergeron on Jan 1, 2021 2:03:25 GMT
I'd love to see what he comes up with.
|
|
