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Post by soulfromheart on Dec 31, 2020 10:05:57 GMT
Are the delams by the edge of the blade is that what I am seeing? Yes it what you are seeing. There is a very good chance this sword will break. I thank you for your insight. If only I posted the pictures beforehand... I actually thought it was part of the pattern with lamination lines like for japanese blades... Would there be any risk of the blade breaking or snapping when dry handling ? Ah, well, it's my fault, I wanted him to try a new pattern and an unfamiliar model with his traditional methods, of course there was a lot of room for error for a first try.
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Post by Adventurer'sBlade on Dec 31, 2020 12:59:17 GMT
No, it's the smith's responsibility to know his limits and inspect his work for defects before sending it out. Accepting a commission beyond your comfort zone is a normal part of becoming a better craftsman, but then the craftsman has to be ready to eat the possible loss of time and materials if he messes it up. You also asked for that commission because you saw the picture he took with a Viking style sword, so it would be reasonable to assume he had at least some experience with swords like that already. We can't take the attitude that we as customers are responsible for something like delams in a pattern welded blade. Nothing against Purna but in your shoes I'd tell the smith I can't accept that blade as-is; a new blade, maybe monosteel, mounted in those fittings with the hex nuts replaced with peened pins would be acceptable. If you're willing to accept it knowing it's essentially only a display piece, that's your prerogative.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 31, 2020 15:22:45 GMT
Purna stands behind his work (as I understand it). Glowing reputation. Couldn't hurt to ask if he'd consider replacing the blade. If that's what you want.
I personally would do so if you intend to cut with it, and have qualms. But as already mentioned it's your call. No one will knock you if you want a decorative piece.
I'm going to get a decorative piece myself for costume play, a basket hilt Scottish broadsword. **Hint - if anyone wants to unload one on the cheap, one you don't want anyway - here's your chance**
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Post by randomnobody on Dec 31, 2020 16:04:03 GMT
I hadn't looked closely enough to notice a delamination, but I've already said in not fond of the damascus, and part of the reason I'd the risk of invisible delaminations.
As for the rest of the sword, I'd be fine with replacing the hex nuts with cap nuts, with their half-sphere tops, but leaving an exposed screw should be seen as a no-no by anybody who respects their own work. After all that chiseling, what's a bit of filing?
Pity about the delamination, though.
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Post by L Driggers (fallen) on Dec 31, 2020 22:05:28 GMT
Now that you know the delams are there it will always bug you. In just dry handling the blade shouldn't break. There is so much wrong with this blade. Do you even know the steels used to make it. The pattern isn't very good and very muddy.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 31, 2020 23:24:45 GMT
I think you may be rubbing salt in the wound here, Driggers. It's not enough that the blade is compromised, you also have to question their taste?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 31, 2020 23:34:01 GMT
I have seen Purna toss out blades while a commission is in progress because there was a perceptible flaw. If the delams are as obvious as you all say they are, I'm not sure why he isn't noticing them. It's hard for me to suspect anything foul is amiss here.
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Post by L Driggers (fallen) on Dec 31, 2020 23:48:48 GMT
I have seen Purna toss out blades while a commission is in progress because there was a perceptible flaw. If the delams are as obvious as you all say they are, I'm not sure why he isn't noticing them. It's hard for me to suspect anything foul is amiss here. You can defend him all you want other have seen the flaws and said worst than me.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 31, 2020 23:57:39 GMT
I'm trying to give him the benefit of a doubt. There is a possibility that he will replace the blade.
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Post by L Driggers (fallen) on Jan 1, 2021 0:13:34 GMT
I'm trying to give him the benefit of a doubt. There is a possibility that he will replace the blade. That's fine just don't attack me, for pointing out the problems.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 1, 2021 0:18:50 GMT
I'm trying to give him the benefit of a doubt. There is a possibility that he will replace the blade. That's fine just don't attack me, for pointing out the problems. I wouldn't characterize it as an attack, and if it came across that way I am sorry. I have nothing but respect for you, and, in fact, I miss being able to buy your wares. Having said that, I think it's perfectly acceptable to criticize the smith for not noticing or not caring about delaminations in the blade, which can be dangerous. Criticizing the buyer for their taste in patterns was a bit much, in my opinion. No disrespect was intended.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 1, 2021 0:27:39 GMT
What is concerning to me is that Purna has put a lot of work into the carvings and fabricating the scabbard and the hilt components. If he has rushed this production through in order to get a faulty blade out of his workshop, then it doesn't add up when you consider how much work he put into the commission AFTER the blade was already made.
I'm starting to think he just doesn't notice the flaws, and he may be out of his depth here.
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Post by soulfromheart on Jan 1, 2021 0:29:15 GMT
Thank you everyone for the feedback. To properly understand the context of the sword, and my expectations of it, I commissioned the sword during the annual festivities of Nepal when, notably, the Goddess Durga is honored. Having regular dreams of a "Goddess of Salvation" despite not actually being religious, I wanted to commission something else (shorter than a XXa) with that theme. Fittingly this time from Kathmandu which name could possibly come from "Kashta Mandapa", the Sanctuary carved in the Forest. So, lots of carving for a sword literally out from the earth, Raw, Primordial...but fitting(s) for a Goddess (so some bling nevertheless). So for the pattern, I actually didn't want something clean like mosaic pattern Kyle Royer's style (which I love actually, but not the theme). So, hmmm, blame my weird tastes I guess. I don't intend to cut with it (it's a symbol to honour a reoccuring figure in my dreams, I am nuts like that I guess ) so the delamination don't actually bother me*. I get that some people feel like some things are unnaceptable for a sword...but like I said, I am actually the one at fault, particularly the screws things.:/ The day before Christmas, Purna told me that hammering something, he broke it (I think he was saying that he did try peening but couldn't get it right). But at the same time that he said that he would fix it, I actually said : " Ah, screw it then". ... Normally it should have been immediatly followed by "just wait after Christmas, enjoy time with your loved ones" or something to the effect but I was working non-stop at the time (it's the busiest season indeed) and just kind of forgot it. ... Everybody that commissioned something from him knows that he begins his conversations with "hello namaste sir" and answers usually "yes sir, will do sir" when you ask something of him. ... So, yeah, I screwed up. Blame's on me. Totally. It's kind of like a private joke and the joke's on me. Didn't have the heart to tell him about the screw thing. I DID tell him to do it after all. :/ *I'm actually more worried about delamination on my "shihozume" katanas from Tsunami-Dragon. How to recognize them and what actually constitute a failure ? I thought they were not fatal flaws (and actually quite common for traditional folded and/or laminated blades) but as I cut with them now, I am beginning to worry. :S
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Post by Eric Bergeron on Jan 1, 2021 1:16:13 GMT
Yes it what you are seeing. There is a very good chance this sword will break. I thank you for your insight. If only I posted the pictures beforehand... I actually thought it was part of the pattern with lamination lines like for japanese blades... Would there be any risk of the blade breaking or snapping when dry handling ? Ah, well, it's my fault, I wanted him to try a new pattern and an unfamiliar model with his traditional methods, of course there was a lot of room for error for a first try. Soul, Purna said he will make you another blade no problems, it unfortunately shipped out before he noticed the problem, but said you contact him and he'll make it right.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 1, 2021 1:19:32 GMT
I'm curious about laminated steel now and I am wondering what our expectations are now compared to years past. I have a lot of questions that I won't post to this thread because it isn't my thread. Having said that, I accept what soulfromtheheart has said, it's their commission, and I believe so long as they are happy with it, that's what matters. They have been appraised of the potential danger and it's clear soul has taken it under advisement.
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Post by Adventurer'sBlade on Jan 1, 2021 1:22:06 GMT
Are you saying you told him "screw it" euphemistically to indicate he shouldn't worry about it and he took that so literally on account of English being his second language that he put those godawful hex nuts in the pommel of your sword?
Okay, that IS pretty funny. I might keep it like that myself.
I'm still bewildered that a smith with 30 years of experience is okay with the results of the pattern welding.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 1, 2021 1:24:25 GMT
Are you saying you told him "screw it" euphemistically to indicate he shouldn't worry about it and he took that so literally on account of English being his second language that he put those godawful hex nuts in the pommel of your sword? Okay, that IS pretty funny. I might keep it like that myself. I'm still bewildered that a smith with 30 years of experience is okay with the results of the pattern welding. I'm not bewildered at all by that. I went to graduate school with foreign students who had no concept of what academic plagiarism. It some places of this world it just isn't a concept. So I am wondering if he just doesn't know. It's a possibility.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 1, 2021 1:42:05 GMT
That's what I expected to see.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 1, 2021 1:42:31 GMT
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pgandy
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Post by pgandy on Jan 1, 2021 1:56:20 GMT
I find that giving a joke or using an expression on the Internet, even to another in one’s own country, can cause problems, as there is no body language, facial expressions, etc. to go with it and can be misinterpreted. Wow, to do that with a different culture as well as language differences can have consequences. I’ve had an issue more than once on the Internet of something that I said in jest. It’s too soon for you to see the irony in it, that will come later perhaps, but you told him to screw it and so he did.
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