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Post by fencer1221 on Nov 29, 2020 13:07:22 GMT
They seem similar on paper, both are cut and thrust swords, around the same weights and lengths, similar POB, both referred to as more of a dueling/gentlemen's weapon. Is this in line with reality, or is the Jian closer to an arming sword in how it feels in the hand etc? Btw the type of Jian I am referring to is the later type such as this:
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AndiTheBarvarian
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Post by AndiTheBarvarian on Nov 29, 2020 13:33:48 GMT
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Post by fencer1221 on Nov 29, 2020 13:38:40 GMT
so they handle in a similar way?
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Post by AndiTheBarvarian on Nov 29, 2020 13:49:55 GMT
Some light jian probably do, many others do not. My spadroon (CS Naval Officers Sword) is lighter than my jian (CS Jade Lion) and a bit more nimble. But both are light cut and thrust swords and the handling is indeed a bit similar and different to an usual (heavier) arming sword. But I also have an arming sword that is more nimble than my jian. I can't speak about other jians and spadroons. So as always: It depends...
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Post by Deleted on Nov 29, 2020 20:05:45 GMT
Sometimes a sword is just a sword and there are times when you can use a hammer as a screwdriver.
Given equal definition, a spadroon is generally a slim backsword. A Jian a broadsword.
Sometimes a stick is just a stick. A dagger can be used as an icepick.
A jian lacks a knuckle guard and could be considered more versatile.
There are late cruciform US militia swords that would embody much of what one might find with a skinny jian. Some jian would make a handy machete.
Ounce for ounce, a spadroon will generally have a pointier point. Can one fence a jian like a highland backsword? Sure, why not.
Can you use lemon instead of lime in a mixed drink?
I tend to use a .5mm Pilot rollerball but I can use a ball point pen much the same.
That reminds me.............
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Post by fencer1221 on Nov 30, 2020 13:37:58 GMT
Sometimes a sword is just a sword and there are times when you can use a hammer as a screwdriver. Given equal definition, a spadroon is generally a slim backsword. A Jian a broadsword. Sometimes a stick is just a stick. A dagger can be used as an icepick. A jian lacks a knuckle guard and could be considered more versatile. There are late cruciform US militia swords that would embody much of what one might find with a skinny jian. Some jian would make a handy machete. Ounce for ounce, a spadroon will generally have a pointier point. Can one fence a jian like a highland backsword? Sure, why not. Can you use lemon instead of lime in a mixed drink? I tend to use a .5mm Pilot rollerball but I can use a ball point pen much the same. That reminds me............. lol, that is a funny and thoughtful comment, I was merely trying to get an idea of wether or not they handle similarly to each other, something about looking at the jian makes me think of the spadroon and vice versa, something i don't have with any other type of sword.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2020 16:06:12 GMT
You must be looking at pretty skinny jian.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2020 16:21:04 GMT
Jian are more like a narrow arming sword, based on what people say when they review them. They are cutting swords that also thrust, as narrow as they are. Plus with litttle of hand guard, I don't think it would handle too similarly.
Think an arming sword thats been narrowed to become way lighter, with minimal hand guard
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Post by fencer1221 on Nov 30, 2020 16:43:47 GMT
You must be looking at pretty skinny jian. well, looking at the silhouette from the side of the flat, i guess if you look closer the differences start to become more apparent
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2020 17:37:41 GMT
I am regarding blade width and a jian an inch wide is pretty skinny.
A jian I had in the 1980s had a blade that was closer to two inches wide. A lot of spadroons are about an inch wide, or an 1/8" wider.
I think we will see more diversity in jian width than in a typical spadroon. A jian often has less profile taper but not always.
One can simply look at modern renditions of both types to see the many differences but one can weigh one piece of paper against another and find similar static weights.
..........which brings me back to
So what? What is gained from the mental masturbation?
Play singlestick and imagine either. Sometimes a stick is just a stick.
Cheers GC
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2020 19:11:13 GMT
Man, that is not far off from a design I want made one day
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2020 1:30:03 GMT
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Post by AndiTheBarvarian on Dec 1, 2020 8:57:16 GMT
The "typical" jian is heavier and broader than a "typical" spadroon. But when I look at the new famous LK Chen jians I see jians in the 600 - 900 g range, long thin jians. And some han jians had knuckle guards. So I think some light jians handle similar to spadroons. But that's the exception, not the rule.
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Post by Adventurer'sBlade on Dec 1, 2020 10:19:02 GMT
..........which brings me back to So what? What is gained from the mental masturbation? Probably makes it easier to go to sleep.
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Post by AndiTheBarvarian on Dec 1, 2020 11:13:27 GMT
I think it's interesting to compare swords from different cultures, look for similarities and differences. That's not more mental masturbation than the whole sword hobby is.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2020 11:25:55 GMT
It seems to me that the protagonists ought to be comparing culture and swordsmanship instead of the swords themselves.
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Post by Adventurer'sBlade on Dec 1, 2020 11:32:00 GMT
It seems to me that the protagonists out to be comparing culture and swordsmanship instead of the swords themselves. Hard to compare swordsmanship without comparing swords. I'll wager the OP is just getting into swords, may have handled repros of some Western swords and is just trying to imagine what a jian feels like without having access to a jian. The answer, of course, is that a jian feels like a jian. But that's no fun...
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2020 12:14:04 GMT
I doubt fencer1221 is a novice Yes, sometimes a stick is just a stick and a number is just a number.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2020 13:19:20 GMT
The heaviest p1796 spadroon in this group weighs 748 grams/26.4 ounces/1.65 lb. A broad spadroon in my own collection, without a lobate counterguard, comes in at about 708 grams/1.56 lb Weight 708.73 grams, or about 1lb 9ozs (a hefty spadroon!) Overall length, peen to blade tip is 96.5 cm Blade length 83 cm or about 32 11/16" (a touch longer than many spadroons I own) Blade width at guard 31 mm Blade width at mid blade 25 mm Blade width 31 mm back from the point 17 mm POB or COG 14 cm from the guard Another on page two of this thread Weight 680.4 grams about an ounce lighter than the eagle. Overall length, peen to blade tip is 96.5 cm Identical but has a tang button Blade length 82.4 cm or about 32 3/8" (also a touch longer than many spadroons I own) Blade width at guard 29 mm Blade width at mid blade 21 mm Blade width 25 mm back from the point 14 mm POB or COG 15 cm from the guard Again, both with no counterguard sbg-sword-forum.forums.net/thread/49877/kutlass-quality?page=2Cheers GC
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Post by Jayhawk on Dec 1, 2020 20:06:08 GMT
I'm with Edelweiss...jian are closer to broadswords than spadroons. Granted, I only have historical spadroons to compare with modern jians, but the jians have been close to a third again as heavy, much wider blades, usable one handed or two. Both cool sword styles with a lot of variation within them, but definitely jians (unless wushu just for modern Kung fu) are much more hefty and imposing swords than spadroons.
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