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Post by ShooterMike on Aug 17, 2008 21:35:56 GMT
Shooter, +1 for that, I'd not heard about the munitions grade find for albion. Thanks Rammstein. I'm not aware of any historical sword being compression fitted. That seems like a modern short cut. Where do you come up with the idea that it was historically accurate to do so? Compression fittings are not uncommon during the Renaissance forward. Some rapiers and lighter sabers had compression-fit hilts, especially when you get into the periods where pommel nuts were used. But I've never heard of it in medieval or earlier period swords. Of course, I could be wrong and would like to hear of any known examples that distinctly show compression fitting of hilt components against the grip in medieval or earlier swords.
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Post by ShooterMike on Aug 17, 2008 21:40:02 GMT
This is not really my niche but i'll try to add something.... I would say its a trade off between the two... We reached a point in steel production that allows smiths to work with materials that are almost completely free of impurities and are very superior to the steel production of old. Even advances in what were once referred to as "space age metals" like silicon alloys and tungsten or molebdum based high carbon steels are pushing the structural integrity of todays swords beyond what was once thought possible. The reason i think its a trade off is: Despite the advancements in steel production and the improvement of the trade tools and devices used in making swords, today they are not really made with the same care that they once were. Thats not to say that all ancient swords were of superior quality, i'm sure they had a whole lot of junk floating around back then as well. I'm just saying that today it is easier to accomplish the same goal with fewer people and very little time, so i think that companies today (not all of them) are more focused on money than on making a weapon. Smiths of old were employed by the lords of their land, and they knew that the weapons they made would be used in battle. And that if the weapon failed due to improper forging, then they're countrymen would die as a result. Today swords aren't a necessity, so i think they just "bang em out" for the most part.... Thats not to bash modern sword production or anything,... its just a thought about values and necessity of old, compared to the capitalistic views of our modern culture. Jim, You just put it better than I could ever write. And I think you have stated a 100% truth. Swords are seldom made as weapons today. And none in the mass produced sub-$300 category are. They are intended by the manufacturer to be, in essence, either toys or jewelry or wall decorations.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 17, 2008 21:49:25 GMT
Jim, You just put it better than I could ever write. And I think you have stated a 100% truth. Swords are seldom made as weapons today. And none in the mass produced sub-$300 category are. They are intended by the manufacturer to be, in essence, either toys or jewelry or wall decorations. Thanks Mike,... But honestly, you should give yourself a pat on the back, as i think you explained it better in two sentences.... than i did in my entire post! hehe Short and Sweet!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 17, 2008 21:58:05 GMT
Appreciate the responses. I guess it all depends on the particular sword. Some of our swords made today are superior and some are not. Really no way to tell unless one engages in a sword fight.
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Post by ShooterMike on Aug 17, 2008 22:27:41 GMT
...Some of our swords made today are superior and some are not. Really no way to tell unless one engages in a sword fight. Those are sage words of wisdom.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 17, 2008 22:48:29 GMT
I will say that I would match my sword of the high elven king against a historical sword any day of the week. This was my first functional sword bought before the tempering issues That Gen 2 dealt with and apparently corrected. That is one beast of a sword.
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Post by rammstein on Aug 17, 2008 22:50:02 GMT
Not trying to debate you but I'd hold an albion in your hands first before saying that - I used to think the same way and I found I was incorrect.
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Post by YlliwCir on Aug 17, 2008 22:56:47 GMT
I'd have to agree with you, Rammy. I used to think my Gen2 12th century was it. It don't come close to my Albion. My KC's are better but still don't have the feel of the Poitiers. I'm wondering about A&A's Black Prince.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 17, 2008 22:58:35 GMT
I don't know a terrible lot about European swords, but the albion Svante Nilsson Sture Sword in they're museum line is just AMAZING!!!
I make it my goal to have that be my first European sword! But seeing that it is pricey, and not to mention a limited edition, i doubt i'll ever get my hands on one. But wow what a sword!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 17, 2008 23:01:14 GMT
I have no doubt that an Albion is a work of art, and would have been lusted after by many a medieval knight. I am only saying that my elven king sword ( I believe ) would be more than a match for many historical blades.
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Post by rammstein on Aug 17, 2008 23:01:28 GMT
Haha Jim
That's one of my absolute favorites, it's just such a weird and unique design. Everyone I've heard of who owns one has said that it's the best sword they've ever had.
As I said, that may be the case but until you've handled swords based off of the originals (Albions, A&A, or even angus trim [his sword handle like the originals even if they are more modern based] ) it's hard to make that statement. I encourage you to test that, but until you do it's not a statement I can readily believe.
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Post by YlliwCir on Aug 17, 2008 23:17:49 GMT
I have no doubt that an Albion is a work of art, and would have been lusted after by many a medieval knight. I am only saying that my elven king sword ( I believe ) would be more than a match for many historical blades. I haven't handled that particular sword so you may well be right. I think my KC and Gen2 gladii are more than a match for ancient Roman swords if for no other reason I believe the steel is better. They seem solid enough.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2008 0:10:56 GMT
Of course, I am only stating my opinion. I don't have access to a real historical sword so there is really no way for me to test my assertion. I just do not believe that every historical sword made was of top quality. As was stated earlier in this thread, the steel and tempering process was inferior to what we have available today. I do appreciate the dialogue with you gentleman, it is always good to discuss a hobby I love so much with people who have more knowledge than I. It is a good learning experience.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2008 0:14:04 GMT
Haha Jim That's one of my absolute favorites, it's just such a weird and unique design. Everyone I've heard of who owns one has said that it's the best sword they've ever had. I'll bet! Even the story behind it is just phenomenal! Just amazing the whole thing!
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Post by rammstein on Aug 18, 2008 0:20:50 GMT
Hey, glad we could be of help! But remember, we're all a bunch of novices too! Well accept for shootermike. I swear, the man's become an expert in a period of like half a year ;D
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2008 0:25:04 GMT
Hey, glad we could be of help! But remember, we're all a bunch of novices too! Well accept for shootermike. I swear, the man's become an expert in a period of like half a year ;D Ahhh, yes Mike,.... When i saw his personal collection in the members collection subsection, i thought that he made a mistake and posted the same pictures over and over again..... But i was wrong.... He must have hundreds of swords! I would hate to live in his town if (God forbid) a tornado came through.... There would be blades flying all over the place!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2008 0:29:03 GMT
Since I have all you guys here, let me throw this at you. I happen to love sword canes. I know, they are somewhat cheesy and do not really belong in a historical sword discussion, but I recently ordered a cold steel heavy duty sword cane and was wondering does anyone have an opinion on this piece, or cold steel in general.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2008 0:34:37 GMT
Since I have all you guys here, let me throw this at you. I happen to love sword canes. I know, they are somewhat cheesy and do not really belong in a historical sword discussion, but I recently ordered a cold steel heavy duty sword cane and was wondering does anyone have an opinion on this piece, or cold steel in general. This question is not out of place at all.... I only know about Japanese sword canes, and i'm not sure what type the Cold Steel one is? Is it an Asian design or European?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2008 0:40:17 GMT
Not really sure about the design. I would love a japanese sword cane but not sure I could afford it. The specs on the cold steel piece stated it was 1055 high carbon steel and made reference to the sandbar duel between Jim Bowie and Norris Wright. I suppose it could be a 19th century American design.
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Post by rammstein on Aug 18, 2008 0:45:37 GMT
www.coldsteel.com/88scm.htmlCold steel makes very sturdy products. And considering a sword cane's use (protection in an unseen fashion) duability is just about all you need, ya? By japanese sword cane - do you mean shirasaya or those sword canes they used in the late 19th c. after wearing of katanas was banned? I know cheness sells one of the former, not sure where the latter can be found but other people on the forum may know.
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