A Rare Swiss M1817 LC Trooper ,,Muster'' Sabre.

Swiss early  medieval mural.



A Swiss M1817 LC troopers ,,Muster'' sabre by the Geb. Weyersberg - Solingen.


Introduction.

Muster:

sample; specimen; example; model; pattern; design; motive; drawing; motives; patterns; designs; prototype; swatch; texture


Before the Eidgenossen Ordonnanz, which was organized on a Federal level, was established after the Sonderbund War, so in function from 1852 onwards, the Ordonnanz was based in the Kantons.
Before 1852 they were more distinct and separate entities.
They worked together in many ways though and the M1817 and the M1842-52 Light Cavalry sabres, amongst others, are evidence of that cooperation.
To be honest I had never even heard of this Swiss model as it does not get a mention in the Beck collection, my only point of reference at this moment. Forget Googling for it. According to Google it does not exist. There is this 7 volume Swiss Ordonnanz Waffen book, but I am hesitant to pay 200 euro per volume and volume 7 where the Swiss swords and sabres are listed sells for an even more inflated price of up to 400 euro.
While roaming ,,of the beaten path'' I found the Kantonale Ordonnanz Muster sabre M1817 Type B.
At first I thought it was all a joke, a Swiss attempt at humour at the cost of arch enemies Prussia and France.
Its Blucher type scabbard sure peeked my interest though and I concluded that in order to find out more I'd better get me one. The sellers of the Type B with the Blucher scabbard, much to my chagrin, would not ship international. Another seller had a standard regulation M1817 for sale but it turned out, only after much prodding, the blade was reground and shortened.
Then, about 6 weeks ago, I found the sabre reviewed here.
According to this seller, who gives the impression to know about his merchandise, this example is also a Muster sabre, therefore dated pre 1817 and one of an unspecified number made by the Gebrüder Weyersberg for testing purposes by the Ordonnanz.
I had this idea these trail sabres would probably be a well made product, the corner cutting often only starting when a sabre design reached the production stage, so I bought this one.
Luckily I was proven right.







The sabre.

You may noticed I use the term ,,Blucher style'' quite often in this review. This is because of the M1817 Type B with the Blucher scabbard. And a shrewed observer may also notice that I refrain from adding the measurements for a Blucher blade. That is because there isn't any use in doing so. I have three Blucher and their numbers all vary wildly. Apart from the straight false edge on the foible section there is hardly a common denominator, so I have nothing pertinent to compare the Swiss with. I could choose one of the three with numbers close to the Swiss to prove my point, but that would be framing the results.
Fiddling the accounts so to say. The cooking of books.





Though for the casual observer this Muster sabre and the later regulation M1817 LC trooper sabres look like direct copies of the French AN XI LC trooper sabre, there are some obvious differences:

1. The grip of the Muster sabre is finely wired and more reminiscent of an Officer AN XI LC.
The hilt though is pure trooper, without the engraved borders on the hilt parts on sees on regulation Officer AN XI sabres, so I do not think this sabre was meant to be an Officer model.
The later regulation Swiss M1817 LC's do not seem to have had wired grips.
2. There is no olive on the grip. Some approved sabres have them, though there are sabres around that do not.
Probably this was one of the differences as per Kanton?
3. The blade on this one is 85 cm long and as such in line with the AN XI LC as per French Restoration Period regulations of 1816, but the regulation length of the (second generation?) Swiss blades seems to be about 88 cm as can be observed on most of the examples I was able to dig up.
4. Though the approved M1817 LC trooper sabres show either the AN IX or AN XI ring mounts,
this example has the brazed flat base ring mounts more akin to what may be seen on some late 18th century scabbards.
5. When seen in profile, the blade looks more or less like a regular AN XI LC troopers blade at first glance, though the foible section looks somewhat wider.
When looked at over the spine one sees the long,thin, foible distal taper and it becomes clear this is a Blucher style blade. Maybe a Blucher Light, but a Blucher style blade never the less. This difference of the foible sections becomes more clear when one shows the Swiss Muster, the French AN XI and a random Blucher next to each other in one image.
The later regulation M1817 LC trooper has this Blucher style blade too. The Type B with the Blucher scabbard does not seem to have a Blucher style blade though which strikes me as odd. As far as I can see from the crummy picture it seems to have a blade close the An XI specs, with the typical short foible section.
So, why the Blucher style scabbard with the Blucher ring mounts and typical drag?
6. The Swiss sabre also differs slightly from the AN XI in some hilt details: the pommel cap with a smaller, round and bulbous peen plateau, the termination of the knuckle bow, the form of the langets and of the guillon and the small ricasso.



The Swiss sabre is on top.


The Swiss sabre is on top.


The Swiss sabre.


The French AN XI.


The numbers.

Let's compare the Swiss Muster M1817 LC trooper with the French AN XI LC trooper and the Swedish M1814 LC trooper. Apart from the scabbard the ,,Muster'' sabre does not differ much from the later regulation M1817 LC trooper I think. GL is the length of the grip.

Swiss M1817.............................Swedish M1814................................French AN XI.

LOA:......104...................................103........................................104.5 cm.
LS:...........99.5..................................99...........................................99...cm.
BL :..........85.....................................85...........................................86.5 cm.
BT:...........10+...................................10.5........................................11...mm.
BW:.........35+....................................35...........................................35.mm.
WOA:.1890..................................1548.......................................2088.gram.
WS:....1035..................................1014.......................................1100.gram.
POB:......13.5....................................13.5........................................14...cm.
GL:..........14.5....................................14...........................................13.5.cm.

To my surprise this time the Gold Fatso Award goes to the French AN XI. The Swiss M1817 comes in second and the Swedish M1814 comes in third. Even with the Blucher style blade the Swiss sabre adheres closely to the canon set by the French AN XI. The long and thin foible of the Swiss blade may help to pull the POB back a little and make the blade in theory slightly less nose heavy, but in real life or in a blind test I do not think one would ever notice a difference in that regard with the French AN XI. The 65 grams reduction over all in weight of the Swiss sabre may have a more pronounced effect on handling.






I added measurements of three Swiss M 1817 sabres found on Blankwaffen.de.
You'll find those down the thread.





Foibles compared:

From the top: The AN XI, the M1817 (before the polish) and a random Blucher picked from the three in my possession.
For good measure I added an image of the Swedish M1814 LC foible too.
It is as short as the French AN XI foible.
Also added an image of a regulation M1817 to show that the long foible feature made it to production.



The Swedish LC is second from top.


Regulation Swiss M1817 LC.


Signed by Weyersberg.


Some extra numbers.

Depth of curve:

Swiss M1817:..60 mm.

French AN XI:.50 mm.

The 10 mm difference may not look like much on paper, but in reality the difference is quite large.
This may have a great impact in handling and the way the sabre reacts to this input.

Length of foible false edge. (from the tip):

Swiss M1817:..185 mm. Is a straight line.

French AN XI:.135 mm. Is slightly curved.

The long straight false edge is one important factor that defines the Blucher blades.

Foible taper starts at (from the tip):

Swiss M1817:..225 mm. At this point the blade width flares out to 31 mm.(*)

French AN XI:.180 mm.

Profile taper measured over 5 points of even distance down the blade:

Swiss M1817.: 35+ - 31+ - 30 - 30 - (*) - 28.5 mm at 1" from the tip.

French AN XI: 36.5- 32+ - 31+- 29.5.....- 22...mm at 1" from the tip.

The Swiss profile taper shows that for much of its length the profile taper does not change very much.
In contrast the French AN XI blade narrows significantly.

Looking at the numbers it becomes obvious that the Swiss M1817 blade design is not cloned from the French AN XI at all.
The foible section apes the Blucher in more than one way.
If one wants a straight up clone of the An XI, look no further than the Swedish M1814 LC.
As far as I can see the Swiss M1817 LC is more a close relative of the Blucher, or at least designed with the bigger brother looming in the background.
The term ,, Blucher Light '' comes to mind.
It is still an enigma though whether the Prussian M1808, the P1796 precursor of the Blucher, might have played a role here, not to speak of what the Prussian M1817 AN XI LC (clone?) exactly looked like in numbers.
All we have at the moment are 2 images in Bezdek. As far as these images go the Prussian M1817 had the regular French short foible.
At least that is something. But did it ever make production?
Or did the Blucher kill the project? Or were these sabres just captured and re-branded French AN XI's?
Also, the Prussians, by the time peace was signed with the French, I think must have been sitting on a virtual mountain of Blucher parts they no longer had much use for. Blucher parts and blades appeared on many Solingen made for export sabres shortly after the wars.
Did the Weyersbergs just grind Blucher blades to Swiss specs in a bid to sell off some of the surplus? What's with the the M1817 Type B with the Blucher style scabbard? Why the Blucher style scabbard as the blade very much looks like a regulation AN XI?
Questions, questions, questions. I tried to get answers on Deutsche Blankwaffen, but to no avail.
If even Deutsche Blankwaffen members cannot comment on the Swiss M1817 questions, this proves the point this sabre is really obscure.
Or they are just not that interested in Swiss stuff.






The three Blankwaffen.de Swiss M1817 sabres.

Though Weyersberg made many of the Swiss sabres, on Blankwaffen.de I found an example that was made by Knecht - Solingen.
They give the measurements of three sabres (see notes):

LOA: 104.5 - 104.5 - 105 ...cm. (this is the Knecht sabre).
LS : ..100.5 - 101.5 - 101.5 cm.
BL :.... 85.5 -.. 88 - ......88... cm.
BW : ..36 - ......35 -...... 36 . mm.
GL : ...15 - ......13.5 - ...13.5 cm.

The second example does not have the olives on its grip, while sabre 1 stands out with its longer grip and shorter blade. The ,,Muster'' sabre numbers are quite close those of sabre 1.
May we infer from this that sabre 1 is an example of a first generation run and the other two later examples of a second generation? As the next Light Cavalry model is the M1842, the M1817 had quite a long service life of 25 years, so there was ample time to implement improvements.
And to round this number game off, here is a screen shot with measurements taken from a PDF of a Fisher auction catalogue. See the numbers 5520 - 5521 - 5522 in the next image. Sabre No. 5521 is also a ,,Muster'' sabre but of the Type B. I am under the impression that this Type B hilt looks heavier.


Fisher catalogue.


Fisher catalogue.



Work.

Not very much to do.
Just polished the blade up after removing some stains.
Took just 4 days to get her done.









Conclusion.

Notwithstanding the questions surrounding it, this is a well made sabre.
The Blucher style blade was a nice surprise.
That the designers were able to shave off 65 grams from the total weight, even after planting a bronze An XI hilt on the blade may be a small boon.
I really think it handles somewhat better, is somewhat more lively than the AN XI, at a slight loss of cutting power maybe, but that may also be wishful thinking. The deeper curve may also play its part.
It is hard to measure such things in an objective way. Would be nice to have Matt Easton give his opinion on the subject.
Anyway, it is a well made and interesting sabre with a character all its own and a welcome addition to my small collection of AN XI derivatives.

Thanks for watching.


Cheers.


24-11-2021:

EDIT I: I found some more information about the Swiss M1817 Cavalry sabre in an online image of a German language publication.
I will translate it here:

,, Eidgenössische Ordonnanz: The armament of the Cavalry will be a Hussar sabre.
The sabre will be equivalent to the French AN IX / AN XI (1801 - 1803) a la Chasseur for the light Cavalry.

Both models are different in the more massive design of the grip and scabbard.
The German made sabres omit the grip olive, but have a wired grip.
In 1820 both sabre models were in constant use in the Cantons Genf, Bern and Solothurn.
Weyersberg was the sole provider of the sabres''. (???)

The above is quite hard to read correctly. It explains the occurrence of an M1817 with indeed a grip olive and probably also with a heavy scabbard and grip. See: ,,both models''.
If I read the above right the AN XI was copied by Weyersberg.
So, who made the AN IX with olive, heavy scabbard and grip? Again Weyersberg?
Or were they imported old French stock?
If the latter it may be very worthwhile to try to hunt for this Swiss M1817 variant as In France the AN IX is nearly impossible to find.

Sources: Aries - Bottet - Wagner - Maier.





Edit II:

A ,,Pascal'' from the FB group came forward to Jack88 with some images he made from the THREE variants of the Swiss M1817.
I guess each of the three Cantons had its own variant.
The difference I see sits mainly in the scabbards. The type B, mentioned above, with the ,,Blucher'' scabbard is in there too.
My sabre is the concept for the last one, but now it has a regulation flat spine, with the ring mount plateaus still soldered straight on the spine in the old 18th C. fashion as before.
The one in the middle with the olive on the grip seems to be the most common variant, with or without the olive.





Cheers.




Schlacht bei Sempach.

Notes.


The Beck Collection: www.waffensammlung-beck.ch/waffen/land/Schweiz

Blankwaffen Forum :: Swiss M1817: blankwaffenforum.de/index.php?page=Thread&threadID=3093

Some Swiss history: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Switzerland#Restoration_and_Regeneration

Swedish M1814: sbg-sword-forum.forums.net/thread/55415/swedish-m1814-troopers-sabre-conclusion

French AN XI: sbg-sword-forum.forums.net/thread/60202/french-light-cavalry-troopers-sabre

Prussian M1811: sbg-sword-forum.forums.net/thread/58831/prussian-m1811-light-cavalry-sabres

Sonderbund War: militaryhistorynow.com/2019/02/27/charm-offensive-switzerlands-polite-war-of-1847/

Sonderbund War:

Rise of the Swiss Warriors and Mercenaries:

Battle of Morgarten, 1315 ⚔️ Rise of the Swiss:

The Birth of the Swiss Mercenaries - The Burgundian Wars Pt. 1 | The Swiss At War: