|
Post by whattheheck on Aug 17, 2019 16:13:50 GMT
I am fairly new to collecting swords. My own small collection is just a tiny drop in the bucket compared to what I have seen in the Members Collections section for some of the serious collectors here.
So, for all the serious collectors here who have probably appraised dozens and even hundreds of swords in their lifetime, I am wondering what do you look for when you check out a sword that is new to you? How do you tell if a sword is solid and durable? Also, are there ways to check things that may not be able to be seen but which are still important (such as the tang)?
Also, since some small defects are to be expected of a handmade product, what kinds of things are NOT important to you? I realize this will likely differ from person to person, so feel free to indicate what you consider a personal preference over a general rule.
For the purposes of this thread, we are assuming that the sword is not a Sword-Like Object and is intended to be used. Also for the purposes of this discussion, if the comments you are making would be different depending on the use for which the sword is intended (cutting, reenactment, combat, etc.) could you please specify why you are looking at that factor.
|
|
|
Post by whattheheck on Aug 17, 2019 18:16:51 GMT
In case anyone is wondering if I have not noticed the various articles on this, the reason I am asking is because there are many factors involved and I am wondering which of those you guys would consider most important when you are checking out a sword. Since no sword is perfect, what would you consider most important when looking at a sword and what would not bother you as much?
|
|
|
Post by Jordan Williams on Aug 17, 2019 18:41:04 GMT
Take it outside, find some deers and just start wailing on those mfers.
There are a number of signs, in all seriousness. One is reputation, for example when you buy an arms and armor, Del Tin, or Albion, you're going to get a good sword because those are well respected names in the business who have built up a reputation in a niche market. Asking around or googling can get you an idea of the good brands or makers to buy from.
Price is sometimes a good indicator, where it looks like the money went, like looks vs engineering, how close it is to what it's trying to emulate, materials used, etc.
|
|
stormmaster
Member
I like viking/migration era swords
Posts: 7,647
|
Post by stormmaster on Aug 17, 2019 18:44:26 GMT
you're never guaranteed a good quality sword, but thats why reputation is key in this industry, because alot of what you can get without abusing a sword to know if its good quality is through the reputation of the smith or company, even if you abuse a sword hard there is no way of ensuring that two swords of the same exact model from a company will last the same amount of abuse, then theres how the sword feels in the hand and the quality of the componants that also helps determine the overall quality of a sword, and generally more expensive swords are higher quality in all regards, tho thats not to say there arent any less expensive swords that are good quality.
|
|
nddave
Member
Posts: 4,048
Member is Online
|
Post by nddave on Aug 17, 2019 18:47:07 GMT
My top three I look for when web browsing anyway is,
1) blade shape/profile. Usually in this regard a picture says a thousand words. You can usually tell what effort was put into a blade by pictures and checking its profile and geometry. Most top vendors like KultofAthena take great pics at multiple angles, as well as offer solid stats for reference when looking over the pics. If the blade looks clean, even and well shaped its probably good.
2) hilt construction. This one is tricky depending on the sword you're looking at and what you know about specific sword hilts. For example with katana tsuka shape, ito wrapping style and fuchi kashira fit are all things to look at and can be judged by pics. European swords like medieval and renaissance swords are a little more tricky but if you know whay to look for you can spot out the iffy and bad. For example guards that are too thick or of poor alignment, bulbous or oddly shaped grips and when it comes to intricate guards like swept hilts or baskets look for bars that are too thick or too thin or bad casting marks or weld spots. Lastly is materials used. Are the parts steel or another durable metal? Is the grip covered in a poper wrap? These things though can be hard to judge by pics though and fall more on the third item on this list.
3) Statistics. Nothing better than an honest vendor or seller giving you detailed stats. What pics wont tell you a good stat list and descriptive write-up will. What steel grade is the blade? How long is it? How much does it weigh? What's the point of balance? Grip length? And so forth. A good well written and measured statistics page will tell you everything you need to know about a sword.
So what if you can't judge by pics or understand what the stats mean or describe? Well that's where research and education go along way. For example, don't know what a POB is? What does alternating ito mean? Just post a question or research it and you're already moving in the right direction to having the skills and knowledge to judge quality.
|
|
|
Post by whattheheck on Aug 17, 2019 21:22:24 GMT
Take it outside, find some deers and just start wailing on those mfers. There are a number of signs, in all seriousness. One is reputation, for example when you buy an arms and armor, Del Tin, or Albion, you're going to get a good sword because those are well respected names in the business who have built up a reputation in a niche market. Asking around or googling can get you an idea of the good brands or makers to buy from. Price is sometimes a good indicator, where it looks like the money went, like looks vs engineering, how close it is to what it's trying to emulate, materials used, etc. I think you may have come up with the next form of sport hunting. Sword hunting! For those who thought bow hunting was too easy! Seriously, though, thanks for your response! It sounds like most people are in agreement that reputation is key. I guess this makes sense since you can't go down to your local sporting goods store and check out your prospective purchase in the sword section.
|
|
|
Post by whattheheck on Aug 17, 2019 21:51:59 GMT
you're never guaranteed a good quality sword, but thats why reputation is key in this industry, because alot of what you can get without abusing a sword to know if its good quality is through the reputation of the smith or company, even if you abuse a sword hard there is no way of ensuring that two swords of the same exact model from a company will last the same amount of abuse, then theres how the sword feels in the hand and the quality of the componants that also helps determine the overall quality of a sword, and generally more expensive swords are higher quality in all regards, tho thats not to say there arent any less expensive swords that are good quality. Thanks for your input, stormmaster. It sounds like reputation is key for everyone.
|
|
|
Post by whattheheck on Aug 17, 2019 22:04:53 GMT
My top three I look for when web browsing anyway is, 1) blade shape/profile. Usually in this regard a picture says a thousand words. You can usually tell what effort was put into a blade by pictures and checking its profile and geometry. Most top vendors like KultofAthena take great pics at multiple angles, as well as offer solid stats for reference when looking over the pics. If the blade looks clean, even and well shaped its probably good. 2) hilt construction. This one is tricky depending on the sword you're looking at and what you know about specific sword hilts. For example with katana tsuka shape, ito wrapping style and fuchi kashira fit are all things to look at and can be judged by pics. European swords like medieval and renaissance swords are a little more tricky but if you know whay to look for you can spot out the iffy and bad. For example guards that are too thick or of poor alignment, bulbous or oddly shaped grips and when it comes to intricate guards like swept hilts or baskets look for bars that are too thick or too thin or bad casting marks or weld spots. Lastly is materials used. Are the parts steel or another durable metal? Is the grip covered in a poper wrap? These things though can be hard to judge by pics though and fall more on the third item on this list. 3) Statistics. Nothing better than an honest vendor or seller giving you detailed stats. What pics wont tell you a good stat list and descriptive write-up will. What steel grade is the blade? How long is it? How much does it weigh? What's the point of balance? Grip length? And so forth. A good well written and measured statistics page will tell you everything you need to know about a sword. So what if you can't judge by pics or understand what the stats mean or describe? Well that's where research and education go along way. For example, don't know what a POB is? What does alternating ito mean? Just post a question or research it and you're already moving in the right direction to having the skills and knowledge to judge quality. Thanks for your very thorough response, nddave! You gave me some good ideas to start with and of course more questions to research. Time to do some more reading! I do have one question regarding profile. I have seen this mentioned in a few different posts where members have mentioned having their swords re-profiled for improved cutting. Is there a standard shape that is preferred nowadays or is it different based upon the sword and its overall design?
|
|
|
Post by randomnobody on Aug 17, 2019 22:44:17 GMT
Multiple shapes, grinds, tapers, etc exist across the vast spectrum of swords.
Some of the higher-end manufacturers make their stuff in spec with historic examples, down to the millimeter, so you can rest easy knowing those swords will handle and cut just like the originals.
Others, especially on the lower end, sort of get the general silhouette right...ish...but they're still pretty far off from original period pieces in measurements, so the handling and cutting will suffer. You can grind more distal or profile taper into the blade, or even turn a diamond profile into a hollow-ground, as well as a few other things, in order to bring a given sword more in line with the handling and other characteristics of historic pieces but there's a limit.
A lot of swords are made very thin, whereas originals would have been much thicker. You can't add steel back on, so there's no fixing this.
Generally, it's best to know exactly what kind of sword you want, research surviving examples to get an idea of what specs are typical, and find something that closely matches that. You'll probably spend a lot, because the research that goes into doing it right costs a lot, never mind the labor of doing it right. Albion, for instance, does a lot of their work via CNC. I imagine their swords would be significantly more expensive if they forged everything in by hand. However, you can feel safe knowing that a sword from Albion will be just as good as, really much better than period originals were.
|
|
|
Post by whattheheck on Aug 18, 2019 17:55:03 GMT
Multiple shapes, grinds, tapers, etc exist across the vast spectrum of swords. Some of the higher-end manufacturers make their stuff in spec with historic examples, down to the millimeter, so you can rest easy knowing those swords will handle and cut just like the originals. Others, especially on the lower end, sort of get the general silhouette right...ish...but they're still pretty far off from original period pieces in measurements, so the handling and cutting will suffer. You can grind more distal or profile taper into the blade, or even turn a diamond profile into a hollow-ground, as well as a few other things, in order to bring a given sword more in line with the handling and other characteristics of historic pieces but there's a limit. A lot of swords are made very thin, whereas originals would have been much thicker. You can't add steel back on, so there's no fixing this. Generally, it's best to know exactly what kind of sword you want, research surviving examples to get an idea of what specs are typical, and find something that closely matches that. You'll probably spend a lot, because the research that goes into doing it right costs a lot, never mind the labor of doing it right. Albion, for instance, does a lot of their work via CNC. I imagine their swords would be significantly more expensive if they forged everything in by hand. However, you can feel safe knowing that a sword from Albion will be just as good as, really much better than period originals were. Thanks, randomnobody. This might seem like a dumb question, but is the idea that historical models that have lasted long enough for us to examine are typically better designs since those models were tested by use during the period in which they were made?
|
|
|
Post by randomnobody on Aug 18, 2019 18:13:26 GMT
Typically, yes. Weapons made and used during periods of active conflict, particularly, tend to give a better idea of what was preferred at that time. Shape, size, guard, etc combined with period manuals (where available) all give an idea of how the sword was supposed to function. We want modern-made replicas to be as close as possible so we can understand original period use and philosophy better.
There is a second group, granted, that prefers the idea of a continually-evolved sword design. Rather than be stuck in the past and what made a good sword then, there are those who think in modern terms, that is, what would make a good sword now. Generally, the basics are the same. Overall shape and proportions are largely in the same vein as old swords, but assembly and handle materials are typically more modern.
A lot of katana, especially, have become wider and thinner than antiques, as the focus has turned from cutting people who may or may not be wearing armor to cutting rolled-up mats made of woven grass and occasional bamboo.
Edge profiles differ as much as distal and profile taper, but the most important element of a functional sword is the tang, including the shoulders, where it widens into the blade. Some period pieces, famously the kukri, never really had the same wide, thick tang modern collectors insist on, and still did their jobs just fine. This does not extend to the welded-on threaded rods seen in decorative swords.
|
|
|
Post by whattheheck on Aug 19, 2019 0:10:32 GMT
Typically, yes. Weapons made and used during periods of active conflict, particularly, tend to give a better idea of what was preferred at that time. Shape, size, guard, etc combined with period manuals (where available) all give an idea of how the sword was supposed to function. We want modern-made replicas to be as close as possible so we can understand original period use and philosophy better. There is a second group, granted, that prefers the idea of a continually-evolved sword design. Rather than be stuck in the past and what made a good sword then, there are those who think in modern terms, that is, what would make a good sword now. Generally, the basics are the same. Overall shape and proportions are largely in the same vein as old swords, but assembly and handle materials are typically more modern. A lot of katana, especially, have become wider and thinner than antiques, as the focus has turned from cutting people who may or may not be wearing armor to cutting rolled-up mats made of woven grass and occasional bamboo. Edge profiles differ as much as distal and profile taper, but the most important element of a functional sword is the tang, including the shoulders, where it widens into the blade. Some period pieces, famously the kukri, never really had the same wide, thick tang modern collectors insist on, and still did their jobs just fine. This does not extend to the welded-on threaded rods seen in decorative swords. Thanks, randomnobody. I appreciate the detailed response! I much prefer the historical styles myself for their appearance, but that is just my own personal bias. So, I will definitely give some other styles a chance as well and see what performs best.
|
|