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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2008 1:09:20 GMT
I found this quite interesting article about making a sword from a truck spring: www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~jasen01/armoury/warswords.htmWhat interested me was this part: "Ergonomically speaking the main limitation to the travel of the sword is the ground at the wielders feet, so I usually put the end of the blank on the ground and grab it firmly as I stand. I then subtract 2 inches for clearance and mark the position of the guard. This gives you a sword that is two inches shorter than the distance between your clenched fist and the ground. This proportion seems to move right with the person." This does seem to make some sense. I tried holding my sword by the ricasso to simulate a blade of this length, and it did indeed feel good. Now I am fully aware that historic swords had different designs for different purposes, and that longer swords are all about the additional reach, but I think a blade tailored to fit someone in this manner would be very handy and nice to wave around. I'd be willing to bet that for their more prestigious customers, an historical swordsmith would have taken measurements of the customer so that they could have a bespoke sword 'tailored' to their measurements. Any opinions? The handle construction is unorthodox too, he suggests making a full tang, not what we refer to as a full tang, but a genuine full tang which is as wide as the handle. While historically inaccurate, I bet you could beat the hell out of one of these swords without damaging it. It's a shame it's such a laborious process. Hammering a truck spring flat, then cutting a sword blade out of it using a hacksaw strikes me as being a cruel and unusual punishment
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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2008 1:58:26 GMT
I remember reading that article years ago.
It would be interesting to see a sword made by that method but there are no pictures included.
A couple thing I noticed was he says that hollow ground blades on swords are useless, which is false, and he says that wooden sheaths are bad too, and advises instead to make it out of leather. Not a very good idea I think.
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Post by 293master293 on Jul 24, 2008 3:35:08 GMT
I remember reading that article years ago. It would be interesting to see a sword made by that method but there are no pictures included. I forget where, but about a year and a half ago, I read the same article, only he had pictures.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2008 3:40:45 GMT
I have been all over the board experimenting with sword length. The swords balance, weight, blade tapper and length all effect how a sword wants to move.
The advantage of length is not just in reach but also in sword-tip speed. The longer the blade the faster the tip will move. However, the longer the blade the more torque is required to move it. If you have two swords of the exact same weight and balance, but one is longer with a thinner blade, the longer one will require more force to move it.
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Post by Tom K. (ianflaer) on Jul 24, 2008 5:30:04 GMT
the tailored sword length is something I've seen talked about a lot in Kenjutsu/kendo and while they usually say if you are X tall then you need a sword Y long it translates to something very close to this measurement. obviously there are different styles of sword for different styles of use but I think this measurement is a very good place to start for a basic blade.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2008 6:49:49 GMT
The ones I've heard of... Japanese swords: blade length from shoulder to fingertips or when holding one handed just doesn't touch the ground. Western swords: (I guess so you can still stab the other guy even if you have your dagger in 'im, or have grabbed his clothes.)
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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2008 11:07:39 GMT
I remember reading that article years ago. It would be interesting to see a sword made by that method but there are no pictures included. A couple thing I noticed was he says that hollow ground blades on swords are useless, which is false, and he says that wooden sheaths are bad too, and advises instead to make it out of leather. Not a very good idea I think. I get the impression that he has a very narrow view of what a sword should be, ie. an indestructible chopper. You don't necessarily have to be able to bounce up and down on the blade without it breaking for it to be a good sword! The sword that he is describing would be great for a specific purpose, namely hacking at trees and generally causing damage to stuff, but that's not the be all and end all. Having said that, I'd still like to own one of these, just a shame that it would take so much hard work to make. You'd have to really want one to be motivated enough to make one!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2008 12:13:21 GMT
Depends on the depth of the hollow grind, if you make it a very gentle hollow grind it would be less likely to roll the edge on a cut, whereas if you have a deeper hollow grind that would make the edge thinner and more prone to rolling or damage.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2008 13:35:43 GMT
The advantage of length is not just in reach but also in sword-tip speed. The longer the blade the faster the tip will move. However, the longer the blade the more torque is required to move it. If you have two swords of the exact same weight and balance, but one is longer with a thinner blade, the longer one will require more force to move it. The sword's moment of inertia governs how hard it is to swing. It increases with the square of the swords length. So theoretically you can get to the tip moving faster for the same swing rotation rate, but practically you need to put even more muscle into the sword to get it going as fast.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2008 15:32:27 GMT
I find anything over 30" is too long for the blade, if I want a long handle on a blade I will just a polearm.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2008 21:00:22 GMT
I'm six one so this might work well for me in regards to a Katana. I think i can hold my ppk like that and it feels like a nice length.
But if you applied it to a European sword I think you would have a really stumpy looking blade. That doesn't mean it wouldn't have it's purposes though. If you just want a great backyard cutting sword this might be a good method to find a blade length that feels the most comfortable for that purpose.
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Post by randomnobody on Jul 24, 2008 23:00:46 GMT
I'd agree with ncavin. Myself, 28-30", maybe a bit more, is optimum for a katana, but any European two-hander shorter than 35" is just laughable to me.
Single handers I'll take 30-33".
Short swords...nah, gimme a dagger. 12" ought to do.
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Post by ShooterMike on Jul 24, 2008 23:02:06 GMT
Regarding tangs and grip construction: The handle construction is unorthodox too, he suggests making a full tang, not what we refer to as a full tang, but a genuine full tang which is as wide as the handle. While historically inaccurate, ... This method is not historically inaccurate. Two of the three swords in the New York Metropolitan Museum that came from the Alexandria Armoury (one is a single-hander, the other is a longsword) have exactly this hilt construction. And there are quite a few others in museums around the world that share this type of grip construction. As for length directly controlling handling and speed, well it affects it. But it certainly isn't the only factor. Many things play into speed and handling, like: - distal taper
- thickness of the cross section
- blade width
- profile taper
In my experience, all four of those have at least as much of an effect as the length of the blade does, on the handling characterstics of European medieval swords. I'm certainly not meaning to denigrate the effect of length. It certainly controls a lot about how a sword handles. I'm just intending to point out that there are a lot of factors involved.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2008 23:06:39 GMT
I also favor tangs that are as wide as the handle. The term Mike and I have been using to refer to them is sandwich-tangs
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Post by ShooterMike on Jul 24, 2008 23:11:25 GMT
Yeah, I had forgotten that term. "Sandwich tang" is very descriptive.
It's my opinion that that type of construction was much more common than we're led to believe. If you closely study the sword blades (missing grips) in all of Oakeshott's books, I think you could come to a conclusion that maybe 20-30% of them could have had this type of grip, based on the width of the blade's tang.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2008 1:01:08 GMT
Well, you learn something new every day! I'm surprised that more swords didn't come with this type of tang, as I imagine it would be a lot stronger. I wonder how this compares with the more traditional tang in terms of transmitting shock and vibration to the hand during use?
Of course, what we call a 'full tang' on European swords is what everyone else calls a 'rat tail tang', and the 'sandwich tang' is a full tang.
I've got to say, that had me confused for a while when I first started reading about Eropean swords!
In case anyone else got stuck like I did, the nomenclature is as follows:
Rat tail tang = welded rat tail tang Full tang = rat tail tang sandwich tang = full tang
;D ;D ;D
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2008 7:43:49 GMT
I'm surprised that more swords didn't come with this type of tang, as I imagine it would be a lot stronger. The extra weight of the sandwich tang probably could have not been justified given the adequacy of other styles of tang for their intended use
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2008 8:04:20 GMT
actually, what is commonly referred to as a full tang is also known as a hidden tang as well. Personally I like sandwiched tangs but they are not always practical and rarely necessary.
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