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Post by michael1969 on Jun 10, 2019 12:33:26 GMT
Have any of you fellas ever ordered from Forge Direct? If so, how was the quality of their work?
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Post by maewyn on Jun 10, 2019 17:13:22 GMT
Never
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reptaronice1
Member
Tell Me... Friend... When Did Saruman The Wise Abandon Reason For Madness?!
Posts: 2,360
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Post by reptaronice1 on Jun 10, 2019 19:34:28 GMT
Longquan forges can be fishy
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Post by RaylonTheDemented on Jun 10, 2019 21:07:26 GMT
Almost all production katana are made in Longquan, this include all the good brands you hear flaunted around.
If you think production swords made in Longquan are fishy and pile up re-sellers like Kult of Athena, Paul Chen Hanwei, SBF Forge Direct, Dynasty Forge and others in the same basket, you may as well stop collecting production swords right now.
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Post by zabazagobo on Jun 10, 2019 21:27:06 GMT
Almost all production katana are made in Longquan, this include all the good brands you hear flaunted around.
If you think production swords made in Longquan are fishy and pile up re-sellers like Kult of Athena, Paul Chen Hanwei, SBF Forge Direct, Dynasty Forge and others in the same basket, you may as well stop collecting production swords right now.
Hanwei is in Dalian, not Longquan. Same with Dragon King. I believe Huano (Dynasty Forge) is based out of Shanghai.
Longquan is where Ronin, SBG customs, Forge Direct and the myriad of Ebay stuff comes from.
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Post by RaylonTheDemented on Jun 10, 2019 21:46:42 GMT
Almost all production katana are made in Longquan, this include all the good brands you hear flaunted around.
If you think production swords made in Longquan are fishy and pile up re-sellers like Kult of Athena, Paul Chen Hanwei, SBF Forge Direct, Dynasty Forge and others in the same basket, you may as well stop collecting production swords right now.
Hanwei is in Dalian, not Longquan. Same with Dragon King. I believe Huano (Dynasty Forge) is based out of Shanghai.
Longquan is where Ronin, SBG customs, Forge Direct and the myriad of Ebay stuff comes from.
My mistake, guess I should have said 'Most production katana are all made in China' instead. Point stand though, it's not like the Chinese told themselves: 'Lets stick all our crook smiths in Longquan'. Lemons happens everywhere, but I agree the ratio is higher from Ebay as bad blades are likely passed up to them.
If some are too worried or got burnt by Ebay sellers then they just need to stick to US, EU or other re-sellers who often order specific models from specific forges and have a better QC.
o7
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stormmaster
Member
I like viking/migration era swords
Posts: 7,651
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Post by stormmaster on Jun 10, 2019 21:49:50 GMT
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Post by zabazagobo on Jun 10, 2019 21:57:37 GMT
Hanwei is in Dalian, not Longquan. Same with Dragon King. I believe Huano (Dynasty Forge) is based out of Shanghai.
Longquan is where Ronin, SBG customs, Forge Direct and the myriad of Ebay stuff comes from.
My mistake, guess I should have said 'Most production katana are all made in China' instead. Point stand though, it's not like the Chinese told themselves: 'Lets stick all our crook smiths in Longquan'. Lemons happens everywhere, but I agree the ratio is higher from Ebay as bad blades are likely passed up to them.
If some are too worried or got burnt by Ebay sellers then they just need to stick to US, EU or other re-sellers who often order specific models from specific forges and have a better QC.
o7
I got an awesome laugh from the mental picture this provided, of a bunch of guys wearing suits and sunglasses sitting around in a room drinking whiskey and smoking cigars plotting shady business...goofy and hilarious. Thanks.
And yeah, lemons are everywhere. Ask Holg lol
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Post by Cottontail Customs on Jun 10, 2019 22:07:19 GMT
Just like buying from ebay or any other general location where various sellers and goods can be found, buying from Longquan via direct sales requires knowledge about the product and a good amount of common sense. If you don't know what to look for and don't know what it is you're buying, it's much more likely you'll be disappointed. Maybe more importantly, you need to know what you shouldn't buy. I've been buying swords and blades, off the shelf and custom, from Longquan for many years and although I wouldn't consider any one of them perfect as none really are, I can say that I've never received something I wasn't expecting and thus have never been disappointed. it's not as hit or miss as some may have you believe, if you do your *research first.
There are some great smiths in Longquan and some great swords to be found there too but yes, there is also a LOT of crap out there and many dirty dealers that just want your money and know full well that most don't know what to buy and they take advantage of that. Imho, there aren't many stores/sellers offering good products consistently so you should really be picky and be careful and avoid buying from just anyone selling swords. Most are resellers and not an actual forge and most of the time they just find what's closest to your order, slap some cheap fittings on it and send it out. If you're looking through a vendors selection and find that almost none of the swords look consistent as far as how the blade is made, what type of furniture and fittings it has, etc., they most likely source them from various places and don't actually forge anything themselves.
*research doesn't mean you read that a few people liked what they got. did they know what they were talking about? did you pay attention to everything they said, good and bad? did you really learn all you could about Chinese production swords and take notes on what to look for and what to avoid before you pulled the trigger?
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Post by michael1969 on Jun 10, 2019 22:48:46 GMT
Ok, thats kinda what I was figuring, was just hoping to hear from personal experiences. At this point I guess Im back to square one...being a newbie I have no clue what company to trust now when it comes to ordering swords, because it seems to me that its going to be a coin toss in quality wether your spending $300 or $1000....unless you go with something like Motohara.
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Post by Cottontail Customs on Jun 11, 2019 0:29:34 GMT
Ok, thats kinda what I was figuring, was just hoping to hear from personal experiences. At this point I guess Im back to square one...being a newbie I have no clue what company to trust now when it comes to ordering swords, because it seems to me that its going to be a coin toss in quality wether your spending $300 or $1000....unless you go with something like Motohara. While there is no 100% guarantee that any sword you buy will be perfect or as close to it as it can be, there are brands that are a better choice most of the time. Motohara is a great sword brand but even they are not always 100%. knowing what to expect, what is acceptable and what isn't can really help improve your sword buying and collecting experience. Every recommended brand I know of has their strong points and weaknesses so it depends on what you want and what you will use it for. what is your budget and what will you be using your sword for? what are some key things you like or have to have? steel type, heat treatment, lengths, dimensions, etc.?
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Post by michael1969 on Jun 11, 2019 1:11:19 GMT
Honestly, any swords I get will be for my personal pleasure, wether that be simply admiring a well made blade and well put together fittings, or actually taking it out to learn cutting. I would just like something that I have a bit of say in as far as dimensions, fittings, etc..I know that automatically puts me in a semi-custom or custom market i.e. expensive, but I dont mind putting some money into things I find interesting. Granted I dont want to plop down thousands on a sword...but $1000-1500 isnt out of the question. As for dimensions...after messing around with the Musashi fast cutter I have, Ive come to think I would much prefer a blade length of 27"...no more than 28" for sure. Tsuka length for me would be a minimum of 11 1/2"...10" just feels too cramped to me.
27" blade with Ko or Chu Kissaki 11.5" Tsuka...wouldnt mind 12" Real Silk Ito Good quality ray skin with Emporer nodes Bo Hi Choji or Gunome Hamon T10 steel (this could change with the more I learn about performance). Fittings and Tsuba I would like to be able to choose the style I prefer. As far as Tsuba...Im not experienced enough to know wether Iron or Brass would make a big difference other than aesthetics, I do know I like the Mokko style of Tsuba, as well as the Musashi style...I do know the difference in weight between the two style would change the balance an handling. Thats about all I can think of for now...Im sure Im leaving something out, though.
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Post by skane on Jun 11, 2019 3:58:28 GMT
Ok, thats kinda what I was figuring, was just hoping to hear from personal experiences. At this point I guess Im back to square one...being a newbie I have no clue what company to trust now when it comes to ordering swords, because it seems to me that its going to be a coin toss in quality wether your spending $300 or $1000....unless you go with something like Motohara. Always possibility of lemons with prod kats. Some more than others. Sub $1K short list: Huawei, Hanwei, Dynasty Forge, Feilong, and some of the higher tier Munetoshi. In sub $1K, if you want an overall nice package, buy a good base blade and have it remounted by a craftsman.
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Post by michael1969 on Jun 11, 2019 12:36:24 GMT
Who sells bare blades? I'd be interested in mounting one myself, I habe plenty of wood and metal working experience, would just have to learn to do the Tsuka-maki wrap but was planning on doing that anyway.
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Post by Cottontail Customs on Jun 11, 2019 14:37:43 GMT
Honestly, any swords I get will be for my personal pleasure, wether that be simply admiring a well made blade and well put together fittings, or actually taking it out to learn cutting. I would just like something that I have a bit of say in as far as dimensions, fittings, etc..I know that automatically puts me in a semi-custom or custom market i.e. expensive, but I dont mind putting some money into things I find interesting. Granted I dont want to plop down thousands on a sword...but $1000-1500 isnt out of the question. As for dimensions...after messing around with the Musashi fast cutter I have, Ive come to think I would much prefer a blade length of 27"...no more than 28" for sure. Tsuka length for me would be a minimum of 11 1/2"...10" just feels too cramped to me. 27" blade with Ko or Chu Kissaki 11.5" Tsuka...wouldnt mind 12" Real Silk Ito Good quality ray skin with Emporer nodes Bo Hi Choji or Gunome Hamon T10 steel (this could change with the more I learn about performance). Fittings and Tsuba I would like to be able to choose the style I prefer. As far as Tsuba...Im not experienced enough to know wether Iron or Brass would make a big difference other than aesthetics, I do know I like the Mokko style of Tsuba, as well as the Musashi style...I do know the difference in weight between the two style would change the balance an handling. Thats about all I can think of for now...Im sure Im leaving something out, though. First off, if details and craftsmanship are important to you, that leaves off a lot of possibilities as far as going "custom" from many of the China direct sellers. they all offer customization but I haven't seen any of them do this well, sellers like Hanbon or Jkoo or Ryansword aren't big on good craftsmanship and attention to details from what I've seen. they will sometimes get your requested colors correct or the combination of requested fittings, etc but they are all basically slapped together with many flaws. good for someone that just wants the basics covered but not for the picky collector imho. for a Chinese made sword with a hamon, T10 is a very good choice. it's strong and shows hamon very clearly with little effort and I haven't really seen many other available steels look or perform much better so far. of course the overall quality depends greatly on who forges it and how well it's heat treated. brass is decent for tsuba, provided you either like the brass color or don't mind black powder coat or paint. iron/steel is good too and lets you have the option for different patinas, which you can apply yourself if you want. your preferred blade stats aren't too far from what's commonly available, akthough 28" nagasa is probably the most common. again, getting it all together in one package that will make you happy is probably going to require a custom job on some level. if you think you can handle a full build from scratch, go for it but I'll tell you that it isn't an easy thing to do, especially if you're picky about the finished product. at least not at first but with practice, you could wind up with something nice. it might be easier if you could find at least most of it already built and just make some simple changes yourself such as tsuba and fittings, re-finish the saya and do your own tsukamaki, etc. that's going to be much easier than carving your own saya and tsuka. it's a lot more complicated than it might look. I would suggest Huawei for at least the base package but they can be quite a hassle to deal with for custom requests lately. if you can find one of their off the shelf swords that is close enough to what you want, it would be an excellent place to start. whether in full mounts you will swap out or in shirasaya that you will build up yourself, it will at least be a quality blade with a well fit habaki and other essential features and will make your custom build easier and better overall. even if it's not a Huawei, there are some other good swords out there that are worth converting, including scoring a more expensive second hand sword for a good price in the classifieds. just keep your eyes open and be ready to jump on it.
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Post by michael1969 on Jun 11, 2019 15:22:06 GMT
Thanls Josh, for the info and advice. I wouldnt be too worried aboit mounting one myself or making a Tsuka, I do a lot of inletting on high grade flintlock kits so om familiar with that type of work. I work with steel every day, im a welder/fabricator so no biggie there either. You guys have given me a better direction to go now than where i was at and I appreciate it. The wheels are turning.
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Post by skane on Jun 11, 2019 15:27:22 GMT
Who sells bare blades? I'd be interested in mounting one myself, I habe plenty of wood and metal working experience, would just have to learn to do the Tsuka-maki wrap but was planning on doing that anyway. Just buy a sword with the blade you want, and remount it. Main components are the blade, habaki, and maybe the saya. You can reuse the tsuba, fuchi, kashira if they're decent. Everything else can be replaced in the remount. If you can play in the sub $1K price point, there are lots of options with that approach.
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Post by michael1969 on Jun 11, 2019 17:18:38 GMT
Who sells bare blades? I'd be interested in mounting one myself, I habe plenty of wood and metal working experience, would just have to learn to do the Tsuka-maki wrap but was planning on doing that anyway. Same here with the experience working metal and wood. I've been forging and stock removal knives as a hobby for more than 30 years. Recently I got interested in tsuka-maki wrap and looked into bare blades on eBay. First I started bidding on some old ones, mostly unsigned and out of polish. I just wanted a starter blade. Then I looked into new bare blades that eBay is flooded with, and almost bought a folded steel wakizashi for $69. Then I contacted HanBon Forge and ordered a custom length and width blade in Unokubi-Zukuri style. For the money, I got a good deal on a lot less than perfect blade. It has grinder marks in the fuller and some wavey looking lines along the blade. Looks to me like inperfections in the steel itself, and the blade bends to the left from heat treating. It's not 1095 as ordered, but most likely T10. It's a high carbon that I have never worked with before. I ordered another blade in exact detail from another seller, it's being shipped but is overdue. It's T10 and clay tempered. There are lot's of bare blades out there for sale. I liked the idea of dealing with an actual forge and swordsmith, not just an eBay reseller. So I'm back to asking the same question that you are. I was at one time a knife maker as well, it all started with a propane torch, ball peen hammer, a section of railroad track and a very first knife pounded out from an old cold chisel...it actually took and held a good cutting edge lol. I progressed to 5160 steel, in my opinion you cant find a better knife steel than 5160. Do some thermal cycles, forge your blade, then triple quench amd triple temper it and I guarantee you will never break that blade. Then I was taught to forge weld Damascus by Ron Claiborne of Tennessee...cable Damascus, chainsaw, and L6/Nickel. Those were good times, I miss it. Biilding your own forge amd working steel in it becomes very addictive.
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Post by michael1969 on Jun 11, 2019 23:50:28 GMT
I have been giving some thought to building another forge...watching youtube vids has me catching the sickness again.
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keshin
Member
Solving complex algorithms
Posts: 48
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Post by keshin on Jun 12, 2019 2:56:24 GMT
Who sells bare blades? I'd be interested in mounting one myself, I habe plenty of wood and metal working experience, would just have to learn to do the Tsuka-maki wrap but was planning on doing that anyway. I know that Huawei sells bare blades. There is also simon lee from ebay. But, I recommend Radoswords.
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