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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2008 22:50:29 GMT
Could someone explain "Hand Honed" to me.
Dealer has a sword he is saying is carbon steel,"Hand Honed". When I asked him what type of heat treatment the blade had he said if it is "Hand Honed" it is not heat treated.
I thought "Hand Honed" was like saying hand sharpened or shaped. Wouldn't the blade still require a heat treatment?
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Post by YlliwCir on Jul 21, 2008 23:10:18 GMT
Zectron, I think you summed it up yourself. I'd pass on this one.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2008 23:15:28 GMT
I thought "Hand Honed" was like saying hand sharpened or shaped. Wouldn't the blade still require a heat treatment? Yes. "Honing" generally refers to the refining or "fine tuning" of an edge (IMHO). It has nothing to do with heat treating.
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Post by dand on Jul 21, 2008 23:24:41 GMT
Sounds like your dealer has no idea what he's talking about. Dan
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Post by Brendan Olszowy on Jul 22, 2008 14:00:55 GMT
Run, don't look back...
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Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2008 17:21:16 GMT
Sounds like your dealer has no idea what he's talking about. Dan Not my dealer!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2008 22:07:23 GMT
well what sword were you looking to buy?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2008 3:27:33 GMT
well what sword were you looking to buy? In all fairness to this online dealer, his primary market is European type swords. He just happened to have this "Dealer Display Case" with a Musashi (I believe that is what it was) Katana all broken down into it's parts. He was selling the thing as he got it to take to shows but it was large and he really never got into selling Katanas. Looked pretty nice, had never been assembled (but could), and the price was right, ... but when I inquired as to the heat treat he responded that it was his understanding that if it was "Hand Honed" there was no heat treatment. I had never heard of such as thing, but hey I don't know much about making a Katana so thought I would ask the folks here. Sounded goofy to me.
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Post by axeman on Jul 23, 2008 3:32:24 GMT
yes i would take a pass on that deal?? sounds a little weird to me
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2008 14:00:12 GMT
sounds like the guy selling it was more of a safety issue than the sword.
too many guys selling deadly weapons like this don't know enough about them to fill a thimble, and are probably not aware that they are risking your (the buyers) life in the process.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2008 14:49:17 GMT
'Hand honed' strikes me as being one of those expressions that unscrupulous people apply to products that have no actual merit.
A couple of my favourites are 'museum quality' and 'heirloom quality'. The idea is that they sound good to the uninitiated, but aren't empirically measurable so the manufacturer can't be sued for selling crap.
It's a way of misleading the customer without actually doing anything that could be legally defined as misleading. Shampoo adverts are an excellent example of this.
I'm a body piercer, and the big one in our industry is describing jewellery as 'implant grade', which in the UK at least, is essentially meaningless. People in the know will be looking for 6AL-4V-ELI or similar, but the average person cannot be expected to know that.
In Europe, there are two classifications of jewellery, one type can be worn in a new unhealed piercing, and the other is suitable only for healed piercings, so there's a lot of jewellery around that is 'implant grade titanium' but is only suitable for healed piercings.
Of course this is more insidious than 'hand honed', because given two products that look externally identical, people tend to buy the cheaper one and a lot of people end up wearing unsuitable jewellery as a result.
That's why forums such as this one are so important. Manufacturers and retailers are getting more skilled at making their products seem better than they really are, but forums are a place for a new consumer to benefit from the experience of others before they lay down any cash.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2008 0:01:33 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2008 0:51:29 GMT
That's a nice sword, very subtle as Japanese swords should be.
Hand honed doesn't necessarily mean the seller is deliberately trying to mislead, it just doesn't really mean much. I suppose on a nice katana it shows that the last part of the sharpening process was done by hand, maybe indicating that the quality control and attention to detail are good, but 'hand honed' alone means squat.
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Post by Tom K. (ianflaer) on Jul 24, 2008 5:38:45 GMT
I think Doc Beat has it pretty much right. just as a note though "hand honed" falls utterly short of an accurate description of how a katana SHOULD be finished.
Jargon, it's all jargon junk nonsense. next thing we'll see in katana ads is "differentially sharpened" (who can find the thread that came from? ;D ) we've got way too much jargon to deal with, we need to cut the crap. maybe we should start a thread to discuss all the crazy words people use to try and suck you in and which ones you should actually pay attention to. I know we have a little bit of this in the anatomy of the walhanger and such but I think we could do with a really comprehensive listing.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2008 1:12:08 GMT
Well, if we were being really picky, we might say that a katana shouldn't be honed at all, it should be polished, and that if it isn't 'differentially tempered' then it isn't a katana, but is in fact a sharpened metal stick. It's pretty bad that sellers of good swords should have to point out things like differential tempering to distinguish their products from fakes. Selling a sword that isn't heat treated in this way as a katana should be against product advertising laws. I have both a 'fake' katana and a real one, and there is a whole world of difference between the two. Actually, come to think of it, it recently became illegal in the UK to sell a katana that isn't 'traditionally made'. While I think that the ban was moronic media pleasing, maybe some good has come of it after all... Well, until they ban ALL swords in a couple of years time anyway
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Post by Deleted on Nov 11, 2008 12:39:42 GMT
i would pass on it... hand honed (i think) means that it is just sharpend by hand. ..... thats all.
kinda reminds me of the dealer that came up and said " yeah man this aint that pakistan semprini this is real good sharp STAINLESS STEEL" and i decided to ask how much it was for kicks... $100 and up -_- ..... i only went back there ONCE to show off one of my lesser carbon steel swords and lie about the great amount i spent on it... i knew he was not that dumb to think that a stainless steel SLO is worth that much =/ ya'know how it is, they try to make it seem great so they can jack the price up ...cant beleve someone would do that *sigh* lol xD dont shop for swords at the flea market xD aint the best place (in michigan)
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