christain
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It's the steel on the inside that counts.
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Post by christain on Mar 23, 2019 15:48:11 GMT
 Hambuckler! And a basket hilt spear! Whodathunkit??  That's GREAT....Pure GENIUS!
Personally, I would go with a fairly large buckler/targe to bash and crash with, and a basket-hilt. But, that's my Scot blood coming out in me. Who am I kidding? I'd go with a two- hander and full plate.
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JakeH
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Post by JakeH on Mar 23, 2019 17:42:23 GMT
Hurrah, we've managed to get three pages without someone saying 'there is no best, it depends' or 'it's all about the skill of the user' etc. Durh. We all know that.
There's a strong argument for a cut/thrust sword with complex protection (basket hilt or side-sword) and a buckler being particularly formidable. Moreso if you use the right sort of buckler (concave forward with a spike like a radar dish vs the usual 'shield boss with pretensions' convex shape). The portability and versatility of a buckler make it a more impressive companion weapon than you'd think at first glance and the spike/blade makes it better at controlling thrusts than the round dome shape.
Personally, if pistols are off the table, I'd go for a targe/rotella type enarmed shield because it's what I'm used to, but there are some drawbacks. The bigger shield covers more area which is nice, but it is slower and easier to fox than a buckler. It is also much easier to blind yourself and so several authors, notably McBane, specifically state that if you *don't* know what you're doing, then you're better off without it than with it. Plus they're just a tremendous nuisance to haul around. I carry my training gear around most days in the summertime, even with a carry strap, I am often tempted to forego the targe simply because it is a pain to lug around.
If I'm thinking of the right Matt Easton video (there are so many...) remarked upon above, he was specifically suggesting the close hold for those who are UNtrained. Close the inside line and don't move the shield too much so you don't get in your own way and then fight like you are using the sword alone. It's not awful, but it's also a long way from optimal usage of the targe.
Finally, though I don't practice it, I can't say that I would disregard rapier and dagger. A classic combo that is well documented and which was persistent. They didn't keep doing it because it was a dumb idea.
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christain
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It's the steel on the inside that counts.
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Post by christain on Mar 23, 2019 17:57:33 GMT
Your statement about the Easton video is exactly my reason for suggesting a fairly large buckler-type shield. (About 18" diameter.) The close-in hold isn't just for the untrained, but a tried-and-true method. It gives ample protection to the body and can be used to counterstrike very quickly. Just ask anyone who's ever been busted in the beak with the edge of a shield.  |
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Post by howler on Mar 23, 2019 18:23:49 GMT
Why not two revolvers? Ok, only melee weapons meant! How about sabre and dagger? I vote rapier and dagger. I have been practicing for about 10 months now, and it's been a real trip learning just how effective the weapon set can be. Also have done some sabre and dagger, and my friend has been experimenting with it and it's a scary system as well going against it with a single swordm One on one duel would be rapier/dagger. Multiple opponents would be some form of mid weight sword (preferably with hand protection) and shield. |
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Post by howler on Mar 23, 2019 18:32:16 GMT
How did you know? 
Switching back to some Sobieski, out of concern for the precognizant
What about the under rated sparkling water and good vodka? TGIFriday posting. |
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Ifrit
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More edgy than a double edge sword
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Post by Ifrit on Mar 23, 2019 19:46:55 GMT
What about the under rated sparkling water and good vodka? TGIFriday posting. I have yet to know why TGIfriday is. I hear about it so often |
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pgandy
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Post by pgandy on Mar 23, 2019 19:55:29 GMT
I have yet to know why TGIfriday is. I hear about it so often Because for most people the next two days are fu*k off days. I wasn’t so lucky much of my working life. But when the opportunity presented itself you better believe I FU*CKED OFF. Those were the days. Hehehe |
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Ifrit
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More edgy than a double edge sword
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Post by Ifrit on Mar 23, 2019 19:56:46 GMT
I have yet to know why TGIfriday is. I hear about it so often Because for most people the next two days are fu*k off days. I wasn’t so lucky much of my working life. But when the opportunity presented itself you better believe I FU*CKED OFF. Those were the days. Hehehe My buddy just informed me it stands for thank God its Friday. I feel dumb now |
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pgandy
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Post by pgandy on Mar 23, 2019 20:02:58 GMT
Because for most people the next two days are fu*k off days. I wasn’t so lucky much of my working life. But when the opportunity presented itself you better believe I FU*CKED OFF. Those were the days. Hehehe My buddy just informed me it stands for thank God its Friday. I feel dumb now Yeah, now for me everyday is a fu*ck off day and I am enjoying every moment of it. Hurray, hurray, hurray!!! |
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JakeH
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Post by JakeH on Mar 23, 2019 20:18:59 GMT
Your statement about the Easton video is exactly my reason for suggesting a fairly large buckler-type shield. (About 18" diameter.) The close-in hold isn't just for the untrained, but a tried-and-true method. It gives ample protection to the body and can be used to counterstrike very quickly. Just ask anyone who's ever been busted in the beak with the edge of a shield. Oh it's not at all a bad idea, it's just a little passive. 'busting someone in the beak' is a more dynamic use of the shield as is using it to press, bind, or otherwise control your opponent's weapon arm. That's where the targe really starts to shine. Think beyond 'passive blocker' and more towards 'lively weapon' I tell my students "it isn't a wall to hide behind, it's a 5lb set of brass knuckles with a defensive capacity". If I'm just going to hide behind the shield I'd rather something abit bigger and heater-shaped. All in all, I think we're on the same (Thomas) Page here. |
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Ifrit
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Post by Ifrit on Mar 23, 2019 20:51:33 GMT
My buddy just informed me it stands for thank God its Friday. I feel dumb now Yeah, now for me everyday is a fu*ck off day and I am enjoying every moment of it. Hurray, hurray, hurray!!! Everyday can be that day if you put vodka in a water bottle  |
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Ifrit
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More edgy than a double edge sword
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Post by Ifrit on Mar 23, 2019 20:54:59 GMT
Your statement about the Easton video is exactly my reason for suggesting a fairly large buckler-type shield. (About 18" diameter.) The close-in hold isn't just for the untrained, but a tried-and-true method. It gives ample protection to the body and can be used to counterstrike very quickly. Just ask anyone who's ever been busted in the beak with the edge of a shield. Oh it's not at all a bad idea, it's just a little passive. 'busting someone in the beak' is a more dynamic use of the shield as is using it to press, bind, or otherwise control your opponent's weapon arm. That's where the targe really starts to shine. Think beyond 'passive blocker' and more towards 'lively weapon' I tell my students "it isn't a wall to hide behind, it's a 5lb set of brass knuckles with a defensive capacity". If I'm just going to hide behind the shield I'd rather something abit bigger and heater-shaped. All in all, I think we're on the same (Thomas) Page here. Yea that's one thing I love about the buckler. It's easy to forget its a weapon too a lot of the time |
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Post by elbrittania39 on Mar 23, 2019 21:17:20 GMT
While this combo is highly situational, pike and sword was a real and pretty neat thing. In the 1600s, lots of militaries trained their pikemen to use their polearms and swords together in certain situations. For example, when receiving a charge, pikemen could brace their pikes into the ground, then while holding the shaft with one hand, draw and ready their sword in the other. The idea being, once a pike hits a charging opponent, its done its job and is functionally useless if it remains imbeded. Therefore, having the sword already drawn so you dont have to quickly fumble for it is a good idea. Additionally, if an opponent closes past your point and you need to switch to your sword, its nice to be able to use it without abandoning your pike. Again, this combo was situational and was clearly only meant for use in formations and it specific scenarios, I still think its awesome.    |
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pgandy
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Post by pgandy on Mar 24, 2019 1:26:17 GMT
Oh it's not at all a bad idea, it's just a little passive. 'busting someone in the beak' is a more dynamic use of the shield as is using it to press, bind, or otherwise control your opponent's weapon arm. That's where the targe really starts to shine. Think beyond 'passive blocker' and more towards 'lively weapon' I tell my students "it isn't a wall to hide behind, it's a 5lb set of brass knuckles with a defensive capacity". If I'm just going to hide behind the shield I'd rather something abit bigger and heater-shaped. All in all, I think we're on the same (Thomas) Page here. That is much to the way of my thinking but you worded it better. I’ve often said that I think of my shield as my primary weapon. It does all of the things that you said plus acting as a diversion and saves the precious edge on my blade. It is such a simple inexpensive tool of great value that many people overlook. |
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Post by Jordan Williams on Mar 24, 2019 1:54:49 GMT
Today I fenced against double sabre. It is also a very effective weapons platform.
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Post by pvsampson on Mar 24, 2019 4:50:57 GMT
if i were younger and fitter i would like very much to check out the krabi krabong stuff; with two Dha/Daab swords or two Hanwei Banshees... Agreed.In my training we use double kali sticks and the techniques would transfer to dual short swords readily.Krabi blades are perfect for dual use. Two wakizashi would work also. |
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Post by zabazagobo on Mar 25, 2019 8:01:27 GMT
While this combo is highly situational, pike and sword was a real and pretty neat thing. In the 1600s, lots of militaries trained their pikemen to use their polearms and swords together in certain situations. For example, when receiving a charge, pikemen could brace their pikes into the ground, then while holding the shaft with one hand, draw and ready their sword in the other. The idea being, once a pike hits a charging opponent, its done its job and is functionally useless if it remains imbeded. Therefore, having the sword already drawn so you dont have to quickly fumble for it is a good idea. Additionally, if an opponent closes past your point and you need to switch to your sword, its nice to be able to use it without abandoning your pike. Again, this combo was situational and was clearly only meant for use in formations and it specific scenarios, I still think its awesome. That is a really great combination, has excellent implements in the right context. It also makes me consider how a short spear paired with a sabre would fair. |
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Post by Timo Nieminen on Mar 25, 2019 8:30:41 GMT
It also makes me consider how a short spear paired with a sabre would fair. Good combo IMO. "Twas my suggestion on the previous page. |
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Zen_Hydra
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Post by Zen_Hydra on Mar 25, 2019 18:00:54 GMT
Sword and shield is a classic combination for a reason. It's a very strong pairing.
I've also had some sparring success with pairing a thrust-centric sword (like a smallsword, or rapier) in one hand, and a cut-centric sword (like a sabre, dao, or katana) in the other. The thrust-centric sword works well to cover the centre line defensively, probe the opponent's defenses, and setup subsequent attacks (much like a boxer's jab). The cut-centric sword is usually held poised to strike, and out of the way. Its purpose is to be a contingent fallback defensive option, and to take advantage of openings in the opponent's defenses.
A real advantage of this pairing is that by switching stances and playing to the strengths of whichever sword is the lead weapon, an opponent is forced to alter their tactical decision making on the fly to adapt to a different combination of potential lines of attack. Whereas you have trained to take advantage of both configurations, and their cut or thrust emphasis.
For me, rapier leading feels a bit stronger in defense, and sabre leading favors a more aggressive approach.
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Post by zabazagobo on Mar 26, 2019 2:04:43 GMT
It also makes me consider how a short spear paired with a sabre would fair. Good combo IMO. "Twas my suggestion on the previous page. D'oh, I hadn't seen that. But it seems to cover all the bases... |
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