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Post by nerdthenord on Oct 18, 2018 23:32:10 GMT
I really gotta not post on these threads while full of rebellious thoughts. Gonna edit one of my posts as I see now it skirted the line just a tiny bit. Apparently not enough to be directly called out by a mod, but enough to make me uncomfortable now that I'm chilled out. Gotta keep my politics to my Facebook rants... peace all. Just try not to mix chemicals with sword practice. It might end badly lol!
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AndiTheBarvarian
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Bavarianbarbarian - Semper Semprini
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Post by AndiTheBarvarian on Oct 19, 2018 3:55:18 GMT
Peace bro!
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Post by William Swiger on Oct 19, 2018 10:29:00 GMT
It is sort of funny in a way. I was at my Grandparents house every day as they lived very close. Grandfather was born in 1900 and Grandmother in 1904. I was at the house one day and my Grandmother looked at me and said, "Billy, you been smoking that marijuana?" I was shocked as my parents born in the 30's never noticed...….My Grandmother said they smoked it a lot when she was growing up until some groups pressured law makers to make it illegal. I remember watching some of those old school movies like refer madness and such as they tried to make this plant the evil of the world....lol They prohibited alcohol for awhile as well but it did not last long. Marijuana was not as lucky as alcohol and stayed illegal. My personal feeling is it should never have been made illegal in the first place. I personally thing alcohol is a much more dangerous thing than weed. Not only will you gain tax revenue from weed but the snack industry will thrive.
I am a federal employee with a clearance and regardless of where it is legal, it is not allowed by my employer...…..
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Post by Sir Thorfinn on Oct 19, 2018 13:57:46 GMT
I dunno, I am on the fence about legalization. Grew up as son-of-cop and military brat which definitely colored my opinions. Very negative. Observed for decades. So here's my real issue, tobacco has been legal and even though it's known to be evil, for as long as you can find written accounts of it...it's still here. The modern decades of faked studies to make it seem safe, and the resultant backlash afterwards...and still, we have it. Weed, just has not had the research focus tobacco has had. It will be interesting to watch this evolve. Now as to personal choice, I'm all for letting people do whatever, as long as it does not harm others. If you wanna jump off a cliff, well there it is. Get high and start pushing folks off, and I have a problem. So I think the evolution of how to gauge what you're partaking in, and how that strength will affect you will be the real eye openers. For law enforcement to figure out if someone is driving trashed, will be an ongoing challenge, unless there is some hidden super science about to be released. But here's the thing...tobacco killed my mom. KILLED HER. She tried to quit, many many times. It never worked. So how do we get more people to make better choices? Thats the real crux of this. I don't have any answers, just observations of many friends, and acquaintances.
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Post by howler on Oct 19, 2018 19:18:11 GMT
It is sort of funny in a way. I was at my Grandparents house every day as they lived very close. Grandfather was born in 1900 and Grandmother in 1904. I was at the house one day and my Grandmother looked at me and said, "Billy, you been smoking that marijuana?" I was shocked as my parents born in the 30's never noticed...….My Grandmother said they smoked it a lot when she was growing up until some groups pressured law makers to make it illegal. I remember watching some of those old school movies like refer madness and such as they tried to make this plant the evil of the world....lol They prohibited alcohol for awhile as well but it did not last long. Marijuana was not as lucky as alcohol and stayed illegal. My personal feeling is it should never have been made illegal in the first place. I personally thing alcohol is a much more dangerous thing than weed. Not only will you gain tax revenue from weed but the snack industry will thrive.
I am a federal employee with a clearance and regardless of where it is legal, it is not allowed by my employer...….. Alcohol vs weed is a very interesting topic. Tobacco is my pick for public enemy #1, btw. Unlike weed, alcohol fueled a lot of violent fights over the centuries, and it is more physically damaging to those addicted. Some forms of alcohol have been very beneficial to humans, like wine and beer, a major source of nutrition in middle age Europe and elsewhere. Cocktail parties (for me) are just better than pot parties for many reasons, of course, provided it doesn't turn into a drunken brawl. It is just the nature of the (main) delivery system, smoking. And a sip from a fine brandy, bourbon is far cleaner and more controllable than a bong rip. James Bond and Cary Grant beat Cheech & Chong.
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Post by William Swiger on Oct 19, 2018 19:43:48 GMT
It is sort of funny in a way. I was at my Grandparents house every day as they lived very close. Grandfather was born in 1900 and Grandmother in 1904. I was at the house one day and my Grandmother looked at me and said, "Billy, you been smoking that marijuana?" I was shocked as my parents born in the 30's never noticed...….My Grandmother said they smoked it a lot when she was growing up until some groups pressured law makers to make it illegal. I remember watching some of those old school movies like refer madness and such as they tried to make this plant the evil of the world....lol They prohibited alcohol for awhile as well but it did not last long. Marijuana was not as lucky as alcohol and stayed illegal. My personal feeling is it should never have been made illegal in the first place. I personally thing alcohol is a much more dangerous thing than weed. Not only will you gain tax revenue from weed but the snack industry will thrive.
I am a federal employee with a clearance and regardless of where it is legal, it is not allowed by my employer...….. Alcohol vs weed is a very interesting topic. Tobacco is my pick for public enemy #1, btw. Unlike weed, alcohol fueled a lot of violent fights over the centuries, and it is more physically damaging to those addicted. Some forms of alcohol have been very beneficial to humans, like wine and beer, a major source of nutrition in middle age Europe and elsewhere. Cocktail parties (for me) are just better than pot parties for many reasons, of course, provided it doesn't turn into a drunken brawl. It is just the nature of the (main) delivery system, smoking. And a sip from a fine brandy, bourbon is far cleaner and more controllable than a bong rip. James Bond and Cary Grant beat Cheech & Chong. Everything in moderation. Most of the things I regret doing in my younger life were alcohol related. None were weed related. Alcohol does give ugly women the chance to have children from a better gene pool.....lol
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Post by William Swiger on Oct 19, 2018 19:49:26 GMT
I dunno, I am on the fence about legalization. Grew up as son-of-cop and military brat which definitely colored my opinions. Very negative. Observed for decades. So here's my real issue, tobacco has been legal and even though it's known to be evil, for as long as you can find written accounts of it...it's still here. The modern decades of faked studies to make it seem safe, and the resultant backlash afterwards...and still, we have it. Weed, just has not had the research focus tobacco has had. It will be interesting to watch this evolve. Now as to personal choice, I'm all for letting people do whatever, as long as it does not harm others. If you wanna jump off a cliff, well there it is. Get high and start pushing folks off, and I have a problem. So I think the evolution of how to gauge what you're partaking in, and how that strength will affect you will be the real eye openers. For law enforcement to figure out if someone is driving trashed, will be an ongoing challenge, unless there is some hidden super science about to be released. But here's the thing...tobacco killed my mom. KILLED HER. She tried to quit, many many times. It never worked. So how do we get more people to make better choices? Thats the real crux of this. I don't have any answers, just observations of many friends, and acquaintances. I turned 56 last month and it is the same age my Mother was when she died. She passed away from a smoking related illness. She smoked those Pall Mall Unfiltered cigarettes. Dad smoked for 30-years and quit and lived to 86.
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Post by howler on Oct 19, 2018 21:09:35 GMT
Alcohol vs weed is a very interesting topic. Tobacco is my pick for public enemy #1, btw. Unlike weed, alcohol fueled a lot of violent fights over the centuries, and it is more physically damaging to those addicted. Some forms of alcohol have been very beneficial to humans, like wine and beer, a major source of nutrition in middle age Europe and elsewhere. Cocktail parties (for me) are just better than pot parties for many reasons, of course, provided it doesn't turn into a drunken brawl. It is just the nature of the (main) delivery system, smoking. And a sip from a fine brandy, bourbon is far cleaner and more controllable than a bong rip. James Bond and Cary Grant beat Cheech & Chong. Everything in moderation. Most of the things I regret doing in my younger life were alcohol related. None were weed related. Alcohol does give ugly women the chance to have children from a better gene pool.....lol Can't argue much with this. I will say that, for the young, moderation is an alien concept. Growing brains (finished at age 25) need weed (and booze, for that matter) like a hole in the head. Many adults drastically stunted their lives by hitting the bong in middle and high (as in HIGHHHH) school. In the final analysis, adult decisions (including reasonable regulations) should be left to adults, provided others lives are not affected, but I suppose there are caveats to that, like drunk/stoned driving (hence the regulations). One hit addiction drugs (meth, crack, opiates, etc...) must remain illegal and highly regulated for the public good.
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Post by howler on Oct 19, 2018 21:22:04 GMT
I dunno, I am on the fence about legalization. Grew up as son-of-cop and military brat which definitely colored my opinions. Very negative. Observed for decades. So here's my real issue, tobacco has been legal and even though it's known to be evil, for as long as you can find written accounts of it...it's still here. The modern decades of faked studies to make it seem safe, and the resultant backlash afterwards...and still, we have it. Weed, just has not had the research focus tobacco has had. It will be interesting to watch this evolve. Now as to personal choice, I'm all for letting people do whatever, as long as it does not harm others. If you wanna jump off a cliff, well there it is. Get high and start pushing folks off, and I have a problem. So I think the evolution of how to gauge what you're partaking in, and how that strength will affect you will be the real eye openers. For law enforcement to figure out if someone is driving trashed, will be an ongoing challenge, unless there is some hidden super science about to be released. But here's the thing...tobacco killed my mom. KILLED HER. She tried to quit, many many times. It never worked. So how do we get more people to make better choices? Thats the real crux of this. I don't have any answers, just observations of many friends, and acquaintances. I turned 56 last month and it is the same age my Mother was when she died. She passed away from a smoking related illness. She smoked those Pall Mall Unfiltered cigarettes. Dad smoked for 30-years and quit and lived to 86. My mother passed at 88, but her eighties were terrible because she was "hollowed out" from smoking for over 60 years, since the mid-1940's. COPD, congestive heart failure, oral cancer basically put her into assisted living at age 80 and with an oxygen tank and bedridden for the last 18 months of her life. Her mother (my grandmother) lived unassisted into her mid 90's. Smoking is a pretty destructive vice, and it is no accident that most of those who start are in their teens. In an ideal world people wouldn't begin experimenting with any mind altering substances until age 25, but we don't live in such a world and must act accordingly.
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Post by demonskull on Oct 19, 2018 21:32:57 GMT
Not only will you gain tax revenue from weed but the snack industry will thrive.
Best line posted on this site in a long time !
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Razor
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Post by Razor on Oct 20, 2018 3:22:56 GMT
I believe, and so does my brother in law in the DEA, that marijuana is a gateway drug. I never tried whisky or vodka til I had a beer... Here in south jersey we have a Hugh heroin problem that’s killing at least 1 a day. 90% of them are habitual marijuana users also. My 2 cents. Alcohol, is the gateway drug. Pretty much everybody that has done hard drugs started with alcohol. I always thought the term "gateway drug" was bullsempr!ni and propaganda to scare the sheep. I know a lot of people that have drank alcohol, smoke weed(me included ) and never had done any hard drugs. I've also have known people that has never drank or done any street drugs until the got additive to their pain meds and then turned to street drugs when they couldn't get their prescription anymore.
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Razor
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Post by Razor on Oct 20, 2018 3:41:45 GMT
I've never used it, but I live in Humboldt County, an area pretty famous for it's marijuana culture, along with our neighboring county, Mendocino. It's not a great place, kind of a cesspool. I'll say that it was better before legalization, though. Before, it this was kind of an impoverished but low key area. Legalization didn't bring in some golden age of kindness and understanding. Most growers aren't interested in paying the sometimes enormous fees that have to meet similarly expensive regulations to become legal operations. Violent crime has gone up. Drug dealers and manufacturers from other states have flocked here thinking they could open up legal fronts at will only to find that this is not the case, so illegal grow operations and the number of purveyors of much harder, nastier drugs have increased. The huge amounts of money made from legal operations isn't really being cycled back in to the community. The number of junkies and vagrants has skyrocketed(and we already had a lot before), many of whom are very aggressive and/or suffer from mental illnesses. I've read that things are going much better in places like areas of Colorado, but in my area it's been a disaster. I live in CA, too and I haven't seen it make much of a difference. The state and town/cities are getting tax money from it big time. That money is going somewhere so it should be cycled back is someway shape or form. One of the reason crime and vagrants have gone up is because Prop 47 and 57. Vagrants have gone up in my area too but it isn't because of weed being legalized. Cities and cities in other states bus them here. I just had a costumer tell me that there is some laws in Spark City, Nev. If a hotel owner has a empty room they have to give it to a homeless for that night. If the homeless refuses they are bussed out to Stockton or Sacramento. Stockton is known for bussing homeless to my city. I also have another costumer who's wife runs a homeless center that feeds, give food, clothing, and other supplies He says that they are getting homeless there that has been bussed from other states.
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Post by Adrian Jordan on Oct 20, 2018 4:30:26 GMT
I've also heard about people being bused in from outside areas, and agree that that is a factor. However, we've seen an large increase of people coming in from areas in CA south of here(Chico, Sacramento, etc), other states as well as folks from places like France(for some reason?) and Eastern Europe(which is also odd). Many of the homeless that are around now are or were workers of "farms" that have disbanded or been raided and shut down. A lot of these folks are quite a bit more violent than the ones that have traditionally been around.
Not long ago a childhood friend of my younger brother and her boyfriend were taken from an illegal operation by a...I don't know, manager(?) of it, who shot them to death, placed them in a vehicle on the side of the road and then set on fire. I know this kind of stuff has always happened, but we're seeing more of it. Also, we're a really small county. 136,754 overall as of 2017, which is roughly the population of what is considered a "small" city in more developed areas. My city is a bit over 12,000, and we're the second or third in the entire county, hahaha. That's probably why things seem more magnified here.
As for legalization itself, I'm not for or against it. Marijuana isn't a part of my life. I'm allergic to it(sneezing, sinuses from my nose to my ears feel like they're full of fire ants) and I just don't like the smell at all, so I'd probably not indulge even if I didn't have a bad reaction to being around it. I don't have any moral objection to it, and have seen a lot on how it can be used to relieve and treat some pretty horrific conditions, so I'm all for that.
I can say that I'd love it to death if we'd start seeing a fair bit of the revenue being piped back into the area. It's a beautiful place that could have a lot going for it. In the end, as I mentioned before, I don't think the really negative effects I feel are in conjunction to it are due to legalization itself so much as unsavory characters having a basic lack of understanding of what exactly it entails.
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Ouroboros
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Imperial, Mysterious In Amorous Array
Posts: 570
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Post by Ouroboros on Oct 21, 2018 15:06:59 GMT
Howdy Folks, Just wanted to say thank you for your views and opinions on the topic of legalization in Canada. It's been interesting reading the experiences above, particularly about ancillary crime and the social impact. As a northerner, apart from the U.S., I had no idea the homeless were being bussed about from community to community--this is a strange concept for me to wrap my head around. Some interesting points have been made--particularly about alcohol being a primary gateway drug. I certainly found it such and yet strangely its the vice I give up most often, sometimes not having a drink for several weeks--mind you I also do the same with weed. I was also unaware that verious grow counties encounter so many social problems with labour market instability, cost of licensing and the eventual cast off nature of the industry--ie, use up a house as a grow up, suffer the fines, shutdowns, busts and move on because it seems unlikely that all your operations will get busted, leaving the peeople to fendfor themselves. One would assume (yeah, I know...) that there would be more money going back to counties/states that have legalized and productized the hell outa the vice. Cheers, keep those comments coming--learning more every day Ouro
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Post by theophilus736 on Oct 23, 2018 6:11:06 GMT
For God's sake...it's a PLANT. It was put on this world for a reason....everything was. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_poisonous_plantsJust to point out that the oft - used saying of "it's a plant!" doesn't make a whole lot of sense on its own. And to touch on the driving comments www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2722956/So certainly much less prevalent than alcohol but still happens The study is inconclusive but does make the point that above a certain level marijuana does in fact impair driving, and using both marijuana and drinking alcohol at the same time is more dangerous than either (something I've seen many/heard many brag of habitual smokers do in my own experience, though limited as it may be) I don't have a dog in this race either way, but just wanted to address a few things I took some issue with in your post. Um are we reading the same stats? An eighth of the legal limit will result in no perceivable effect on many people. A hit off a blunt will generally impact most people other than habitual users if marijuana... though the range of 6-35% sounds less than credible without qualification of the goofy spread, it would be much more helpful to see how often someone with a dosage of alcohol that impairs response times is involved compared to a dosage of weed that does the same. Just going off of your stats, it seems weed would likely draw even if not be involved more often... my guess would be far more often, given personal experience and the stats you provided.
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Post by theophilus736 on Oct 23, 2018 6:12:44 GMT
Honestly, I think the biggest thing that will come of this is that more people might realize it's just really not that big of a deal. What's that, discussing politics and religions in a venue claiming not wanting to discuss them? I agree, remove any and all objections to discussing all political and religious topics. Let's be real... that rule simply applies to whatever might potentially offend whichever person happens to be reading it with the ability to ban or shut it down.
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Post by Adrian Jordan on Oct 23, 2018 6:59:28 GMT
Let's be real... that rule simply applies to whatever might potentially offend whichever person happens to be reading it with the ability to ban or shut it down.
That's actually not untrue. It's all about perception and opinion. I personally think that a discussion in line with what the OP wanted can be had without getting into verboten territory, so I've just asked that anyone who wants to participate try to steer clear of those types of posts, but I could indeed be wrong. It's been known to happen. If the other moderators got together and expressed contrary opinions(we're a team and my word isn't law) or if Paul(whose word is indeed law) felt that it should be taken down then I'd be amenable to doing so.
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Post by Jordan Williams on Oct 23, 2018 14:44:36 GMT
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_poisonous_plantsJust to point out that the oft - used saying of "it's a plant!" doesn't make a whole lot of sense on its own. And to touch on the driving comments www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2722956/So certainly much less prevalent than alcohol but still happens The study is inconclusive but does make the point that above a certain level marijuana does in fact impair driving, and using both marijuana and drinking alcohol at the same time is more dangerous than either (something I've seen many/heard many brag of habitual smokers do in my own experience, though limited as it may be) I don't have a dog in this race either way, but just wanted to address a few things I took some issue with in your post. Um are we reading the same stats? An eighth of the legal limit will result in no perceivable effect on many people. A hit off a blunt will generally impact most people other than habitual users if marijuana... though the range of 6-35% sounds less than credible without qualification of the goofy spread, it would be much more helpful to see how often someone with a dosage of alcohol that impairs response times is involved compared to a dosage of weed that does the same. Just going off of your stats, it seems weed would likely draw even if not be involved more often... my guess would be far more often, given personal experience and the stats you provided. The point of my post was that weed has been related to car accidents. Not that it's more dangerous than alcohol.
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seth
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Just Peachy
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Post by seth on Oct 23, 2018 15:46:43 GMT
Canada ran out of marijuana so soon: www.abc.net.au/news/2018-10-23/canada-runs-out-of-weed-after-legalising-marijuana/10420482I guess they'll have to go back to alcohol for a bit. This has been a great thread. I tend to agree that adults should be allowed to partake if they choose. As many have pointed out, alcohol is legal and arguably more destructive than MJ. Here in the US, we have many states that have totally legalized, some just for medical and some not at all. Over the next few years, this experiment should give data to compare how it actually impacts society. A total ban didn't allow an accurate picture of the potential impact. I am curious to see the impact on the use of "harder" drugs and prescription abuse in states where MJ is legal. Also, we can see which states legalize it wisely and which don't. I read an article that California's MJ black market is still going strong because the high taxes and heavy regulation make it cheaper and easier to get MJ on the streets.
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Post by theophilus736 on Oct 23, 2018 16:36:12 GMT
Um are we reading the same stats? An eighth of the legal limit will result in no perceivable effect on many people. A hit off a blunt will generally impact most people other than habitual users if marijuana... though the range of 6-35% sounds less than credible without qualification of the goofy spread, it would be much more helpful to see how often someone with a dosage of alcohol that impairs response times is involved compared to a dosage of weed that does the same. Just going off of your stats, it seems weed would likely draw even if not be involved more often... my guess would be far more often, given personal experience and the stats you provided. The point of my post was that weed has been related to car accidents. Not that it's more dangerous than alcohol. Okay gotcha. It sounded like you were trying to downplay it when if anything it looked like more of a cause. Which if you've ever smoked weed and aren't in denial, totally makes sense. Sometimes just making a sandwich can pose problems, let alone driving... but there is always the guy who says "hold my pipe" and thinks his consciousness has been expanded and he could drive his car through a rally race with ease.
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