Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2008 6:48:39 GMT
Hey all, a little while ago I commented that cutting an empty 2L bottle was not impossible and was asked to show my technique. Well after finally getting enough soft drink bottles from a friend (we don't drink much at our place) I managed to get some clear shots of me doing so. Unfortunately I wasn't having a great day and only have a few shots to show... perhaps the pressure of the camera? At any rate please offer any comments or suggestions! First up I have some shots of my warm up, cutting bits off empty 1.5L bottles... the first one had a little bit of water in it left over from my first cut on a full bottle... nothing exciting to see there so I edited it out. The old camera I was using was quickly running out of space so I was trying different resolutions to save on space... sorry about the poor quality for this next one, the one after is the same resolution as the first. These following clips are of me cutting the tops off two different 2L bottles. Unfortunately I didn't have the skill today to perform a cut while having the base remain still. I remember saying that this cheness blade wasn't particularly sharp - but I was wrong! I just needed a bit more practice to be able to cut paper with it.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2008 13:49:32 GMT
Thanks Vyapada
So, how does cutting empty bottles compare to cutting full bottles? (sorry, I can't remember what you said earlier)
|
|
|
Post by ShooterMike on Jul 8, 2008 14:09:03 GMT
THAT!... is a very impressive display of acceleration control and edge alignment.
Very nicely done. Empty bottles are a supreme challenge. I'd venture to guess that if those had been full bottles, most of the cuts would have resulted in barely a ripple in the water left in the undisturbed base of the bottle.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2008 14:29:40 GMT
Hi djmahoney, well... I find it requires a lot of focus. I was going to edit my 'focus pauses' out but I left 'em in for the sake of some continuity. I find that I have to relax and get my grip and technique 'just right' or else it's a botched cut. I think it feels like a slightly different technique than cutting full bottles... they are tricky too... thanks for the kind words ShooterMike (I get a lot of inspiration from your vids), but today I actually couldn't make any cuts on a full soft drink bottle where the base remained still. Usually that isn't a problem for me but I still managed to get a few empty cuts. My technique in the videos was a bit more forceful than I'd like but I was getting desperate as my supply was running out and I really wanted to post a 'proof of concept' (or something) while the other threads on cutting were still warm! ( /index.cgi?board=japaneseswords&action=display&thread=5304 with /index.cgi?board=cutting&action=display&thread=4968 and /index.cgi?board=jsa&action=display&thread=5111 for general discussion on cutting) This probably is going to come out awkwardly but I'll try and describe the difference to me. Now that I've had some time to reflect and practice some more I agree with ianflaer that on the initial cut of an empty bottle a bit more speed than usual is required - it feels like I'm jerking/whipping the blade through the bottle while remaining relaxed. On a full bottle I can do much slower and just need to focus on a constant/even draw or push of the blade through it. Doing a jerking/whipping doesn't result in a good cut on full bottles for me. When cutting bits off a bottle, I find that nice and relaxed works just fine (like with the 1.5L bottle warm up clip... unfortunately I couldn't get those cuts on the 2L bottles). Fortunately I still have a couple of soft drink bottles left over so I may take some footage of cutting full ones as I find it's a useful learning experience to see myself cutting and if I post it online perhaps I can get some tips!
|
|
|
Post by YlliwCir on Jul 8, 2008 17:24:23 GMT
Well done, Vyapada, and thanks for the vid. It is impressive to cut an empty. I knew it could be done, tho I have not been able to do it consistently. I can count the number of my successful attempts on one hand with fingers left over.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2008 20:11:00 GMT
Soon bloodwraith will pop in and say that you don't stop your blade after the cut, and that is a bad thing He would be right on this one, there's too much swing on that cuts. <- Just some constructive criticism What sword was that? Shura, Tenchi, Kaze?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2008 1:25:31 GMT
Thanks RicWilly Lemon, that's a shirasaya which has had a tsuka made for it - it's the middle sword in this pic (not my collection): forums.swordforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=73578&d=1206288836You're right - I do overswing a bit on those cuts and it's something I try to limit. Like I mentioned before those cuts have a bit too much power in them as I was just trying to make the cut before running out of bottles! Sometimes a bit of extra power can be helpful.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2008 3:24:23 GMT
Very nice. Empty bottles are VERY hard...and nigh impossible with some sword (been trying with my black prince...so far no good ).
|
|
|
Post by Tom K. (ianflaer) on Jul 9, 2008 4:00:55 GMT
+2 ! AWESOME CUTTING! I'm really impressed, Vyapada. Thank you so much for the insight and the demo. I agree with Shooter Mike 100%. I find it very interesting that you find the wipping motion no good on filled bottles but good on empty. I wonder why that is. Seems to me it should work.
on stopping your blade after the cut: I have thought about this a lot lately and I believe that it is very important for a pure cut. stopping after helps you focus and also gives you a visual reference on your cut too. it is absolutley top form when doing show or display cutting such as a tameshigiri competition. However it's a good way to die in a real fight. in a real fight you never want to stop moving. you want to flow from move to move seamlessly. not that any of us should ever need to cut someone up in a fight (I hope) but in fighting match as you would find in kendo or the SCA you would want to take the technique you learned using the pure form and stopping when you swing and advance it into constant movement. I learned my technique backwards meaning fighting style first and pure cutting last and I have some slop in my form I need to clean up because of it. I still don't LIKE stopping my blade after a cut but it seems to help my form.
Thank you for the demo V
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2008 6:40:53 GMT
Thanks Cold Napalm and ianflaer! Usually when I do my cuts I try to go from one posture (or guard) to another, rather than stopping right after the target... it feels more natural to me. With regards to the whipping style cut... maybe cutting an empty bottle requires a certain amount of acceleration to overcome the resistance of the bottle and get through the target before the inertia of the bottle starts to be affected... just speculation but it kinda makes sense in my head! Maybe I just need to improve my form and that will help me cut heavier targets. Below is what I feel to be a reasonable reflection of my current technique on other targets... some misses and overpowered ones in there. As always please feel free to critique, all opinions valued! No tap water was harmed in the making of the following film, it's all rainwater - we're having a bit of a drought at the moment.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2008 7:23:52 GMT
Stopping after the cut is all about passing the kinetic energy straight through target, that is how you make a cut that does not disturb the water or the base of the bottle or whatever you are cutting. Good cutting requires that the kinetic energy disperses in the correct manner.
When I talk about stopping after a cut it isn't so much about a full stop and back to guard it is a stop long enough to disperse the kinetic energy and to get the right muscle movement. I can personally flow from cut to cut and still include the stop. I guess it is about the mechanics of the cut.
Nice cutting Vy, empties are really difficult to cut without the right sword. I still think you need more of a "push-pull" motion rather than a "drop" cut motion. Great work though, I look forward to seeing more.
Wow am I really that predictable?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2008 8:00:04 GMT
Hey bloodwraith, thanks for your comments and for stopping by mate! Did you have any cutting clips up of your push-pull technique? It's something I've played with, but I am not comfortable with it yet...
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2008 10:54:49 GMT
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2008 11:16:33 GMT
Thanks lemon, I have seen that one - I was just hoping to see it in action!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2008 14:32:41 GMT
Vyapada, Thanks for the detailed explanation! +1, And the second video. Your technique is looking really great. One thing did come to mind when watching your new video. Disclaimer, I am an armchair QB at this point. Try and use more of your back and not so much of your shoulders and pecs in your cuts. I think it might balance out your cuts more - which are great - It just popped into my head. So, try playing with spreading your chest and squeezing your shoulder blades together a bit, and see what happens. And relax until you need the power of the cut - I think this will only come with time and practice, you are doing great! And thanks for conserving resources for your planet
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2008 1:21:34 GMT
Hey djmahoney, thanks for the tip - I think that keeping the shoulders more neutral is a great idea!
I'd just like to clarify, however, when you say to use more of the back do you mean to rotate or flex at the torso or to pivot around the torso by using a body/lower limb movement (sometimes colloquially called using the hips)?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2008 3:25:02 GMT
Ah, well I was trying to refer to using more of your back muscles to balance out your shoulders (deltoid muscles) and pectorals. Let's see those would be the trapezius deltiods and the latissimus dorsi. However, I am always an advocate of using more of your core strength I think that would be good here too. Pilates is great for increasing core strength. edit with respect to the twisting: I myself find that twisting also gives me more power without the added tension in the upper body. All I can really say is try it out and see if you like it.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2008 5:21:57 GMT
Vy: I am waiting for my housemate to get back, then I will try to get up some demonstrations, though I might have to demonstrate with my bokken as I am a little put out that I can't get my sakura to perform properly, I really think it is that the blade is too heavy for the length of the tsuka, or it is because I am a long streak of nothing without much muscle strength. I think I know what Deb is saying, I will see if I can also get up a demonstration of that as well.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2008 15:48:53 GMT
I never tried cutting with an emty bottle, I always assumed they would fly away after minor damage. I prefer beating on heavy targets, though, so most of my swords just would not be suited for beating on would than slicing through plastic. Impressive cutting.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2008 4:01:07 GMT
After a few flubbed diagonal cuts on freestanding rolled sheets of newspaper (you can see the bend on the left and the tear on the lower left) I decided to have a go at a vertical cut and the following was the result: This was a fluke though, I couldn't do it again. I also couldn't even come close to cutting a sheet suspended by two pegs... made a right hash of it I did! ;D My stand is a bit high for this to be a regular occurrence but I'll be looking for a substitute so I can get more practice - it seems I'm terribly inconsistent with my style. Leather feels and looks great but perhaps because it can get a bit slippery I grip too hard? Fun news though, I should be getting two medium end production swords soon... but that may mean I'll be spending less time with my trusty cheness... I also hardly use my auction central ebay katana... am I turning into a sword snob? Stay tuned!
|
|