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Post by legacyofthesword on Sept 25, 2018 4:29:44 GMT
Andi isn't the only one who's a sucker for hypothetical duel situations.
It's a duel to the death, no armor, opponents are of equal size and skill, etc., etc.. One guy gets a greatsword, the other a spear. Different lengths and weights of both weapons can be discussed, as can the effects of different terrain. Since the weapon is a spear, I'm putting a limit of six inches on the cutting edges of the head (no long-bladed hewing spears).
How would this play out? Which would you prefer, and why? Who has the advantage?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2018 4:35:49 GMT
What is a greatsword. Define, qualify.
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Post by Timo Nieminen on Sept 25, 2018 4:59:10 GMT
I'd say advantage to spear, but greatsword, especially a greatsword like:  (Image from www.sword-buyers-guide.com/two-handed-sword.html - no need to go far to find a good pic, sometimes!) is one of the hardest swords to face with a spear (assuming just a single sword, no armour, shield, etc.). The long cross and long hilt make the circular disengage around the cross and hilt that is an excellent reliable technique against single sword much slower (since you have to move much further), and hooked/curled ends of the cross can trap your spear. Parierhaken can slow/block disengages the other way, too. Make sure that the spear is long enough so that you are still out of range of the swordsman after 1 step. And be prepared to run! |
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Terricus
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Post by Terricus on Sept 25, 2018 6:02:32 GMT
I'd go for the greatsword. I look at it a lot simpler than I probably should, but in this duel chances are slim the greatsword breaks. On the other hand, with the sheer force able to be generated by the greatsword, the spear has a better chance. If the shaft gets snapped or cut, well....
Yer shafted mate.
I bet I'm off to the gulag for that one
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AndiTheBarvarian
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Post by AndiTheBarvarian on Sept 25, 2018 6:11:54 GMT
I guess 50/50.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2018 12:33:40 GMT
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Ouroboros
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Post by Ouroboros on Sept 25, 2018 13:41:59 GMT
Just to play devils advocate...and I don't own a Greatsword (but I do have some great swords)...
Spear.
Range,versatility and if broken gives you 2 weapons (or more) . Ever get hit with a hardwood pole across your noggin while your sword is blocked by half a shaft?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2018 13:54:13 GMT
I think it's rather clear that the spear will triumph most of the time, but skill definitely is a factor. Give the swordsman a shield, however, and the game is really afoot.
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Post by Jordan Williams on Sept 25, 2018 16:00:03 GMT
Do they speak specifically on greatswords in that video though? Can't watch atm. |
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Zen_Hydra
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Post by Zen_Hydra on Sept 25, 2018 16:36:11 GMT
Do they speak specifically on greatswords in that video though? Can't watch atm. Yes. They do. |
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howler
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Post by howler on Sept 25, 2018 19:08:58 GMT
Spear by orders of magnitude, used everywhere and in all manner. Greatsword was a battlefield implement used against various formations.
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AndiTheBarvarian
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Post by AndiTheBarvarian on Sept 26, 2018 8:50:28 GMT
I assume in a duel situation the greatswordian wouldn't use his sword fluently swinging as like fighting against multible opponents.
I think he would use it more like a poleweapon and similar to a spear.
The greatsword Timo has shown is half handle, half blade.
But swinging is still possible.
The spear will still have more reach but the greatsword has more versatility.
I still think 50/50.
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Post by markus313 on Sept 26, 2018 9:36:40 GMT
If the greatsword guy uses the sword in swinging motions, the spear will change through and thrust. If he trys to bind, the spear will still have a reach advantage and, although more length is sticking out on front, have at least the same leverage, since the grip can be wider. Also the hands can slide along the shaft, which is why in this kind of dueling situation I’d give the versatility advantage to the spear, too.
Of course the spear users main problem would be not to get his front hand cut. Most probably the greatsword guy would have a much harder time defending his openings from the spear changing through though.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 26, 2018 13:18:40 GMT
The spearmen in this video are clearly novices, and the greatsword they used had some issues: it would not stop wobbling. When the greatsword was being swung around with big sweeping motions, it was easy for the spearman to take him out as his movements were predictable. A team of greatswordmen attacking spearmen from different angles is what I would like to see, because as we can clearly see from this video, a frontal attack on spearmen is not advised.
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Zen_Hydra
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Post by Zen_Hydra on Sept 26, 2018 16:37:19 GMT
The spear wins by a wide margin. It is longer and faster, and as long as there is ample room to retreat the swordsman cannot safely close. I think people tend to have some big misconceptions about how vulnerable a spear shaft is to cutting. A spear being wielded will almost never be optimally braced and positioned for cutting.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 26, 2018 19:41:39 GMT
If it's not braced then it is easily beaten aside.
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howler
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Post by howler on Sept 26, 2018 20:11:27 GMT
The spear wins by a wide margin. It is longer and faster, and as long as there is ample room to retreat the swordsman cannot safely close. I think people tend to have some big misconceptions about how vulnerable a spear shaft is to cutting. A spear being wielded will almost never be optimally braced and positioned for cutting. This. Spears only break in the movies. Greatsword is a niche battlefield weapon used against formations. Maybe in confined spaces or with armor there would be advantage for greatsword. |
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pgandy
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Post by pgandy on Sept 26, 2018 20:17:58 GMT
The spearman should usually win. I thought I had posted but can’t find it.
I’ve been following this thread with great interest as I love spears. I especially liked the video. One thing I’d like to throw out there for thought as no one seems to be aware that a spear can be used as a takedown tool, a carryover from my stick fighting days. This will not work in all cases as much will depend on sword and spear lengths, and the amount of area available. Nevertheless it’s a nice trick to put into your bag of tricks and maybe one day...
It is simple, thrust the spear between opponent’s legs the walk past catching one leg behind the knee and just above, the other leg on front of the thigh as you walk past. The sword will add a problem so make sure that you are out of sword’s measure. The shorter the sword and the longer the spear the more to the spearman’s advantage. Your opponent has no choice but go down. I was being careful with Hazel in the video and even so threw her off balance.
For those saying well if I can thrust between the legs why not at the leg? One thing to consider is that the area between the legs is greater than a knee or thigh which can be moving. He may well go down if I am lucky to score on the knee but could still remain a threat if hit in the thigh plus I have to pull the sucker out. The area between the legs offers an easier target and is not as critical as to where I place the haft as trying to place the point in a specific target, possibly a moving target.
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Post by nddave on Sept 27, 2018 4:33:02 GMT
Greatswords were made to combat pikes and spears. Now hypotheticals aside, if a weapon was specifically designed to combat another and such a weapon held prominence on the battlefield for over two centuries, wouldn't you say such a weapon was effective?
Now obivously greatswords weren't specifically dueling weapons but it would make sense that at some point during a battle that the line would break and you'd have pikemen facing a Landsknecht. As seen in this example,
 The obvious advatange of a greatsword is the fact it is as long as the average spear, yet has a full blade as opposed to a smaller blade head. Reach of course could be favored to the pike or spear as they could reach double the length of the great sword. I think one major misconception of this debate is that Greatswords were unwieldy and cumbersome. Well I guess it would depend on the wielder but in capable hands as the debate does specify these swords aren't as unwieldy as some may think. I'm definitely no expert in regards to greatsword technique or forms but I can cut and move pretty well with my Lowlander as can be seen in this video, |
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AndiTheBarvarian
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Post by AndiTheBarvarian on Sept 27, 2018 5:11:31 GMT
Those greatsword fighters got double pay but I don't know if they got it because they killed twice as pikemen or they survived half as long.
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