Uhlan
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Post by Uhlan on May 19, 2018 20:26:49 GMT
 Introduction. A very brief history of the Landwehr. The precursor of the Bavarian Landwehr in Nürnberg was the, in 1803 under French rule established, Bürger Volontär Korps. The 3 companies of 160 men each and 1 Artillery Korps were taken over by the Bayerische Verwaltung per 15-9-1806. Now called the National Guard III class, it was renamed, after 1814, to ,, Landwehr ''. An early highpoint in the history of the Landwehr was its important contribution during the war of independence against the French. In 1833 the Landwehr got its own command at Nürnberg. In the notes you will find much more about this interesting civilian organization. The Bavarian Landwehr sabre. Officers carried a model of sabre that, though it changed its form over time, was distinct from other models in the regular Army. Of course Officers had ample leeway for personalizing as long as the basic form was adhered to. This being Bavaria, there is always more or less influence from the Austro - Hungarian Empire on display. On the sabre in discussion today it is the Hungarian styled scabbard with its distinct furniture, the wink to Austria in the wide flared top of the knuckle bow and the palmette shaped langets that catch the eye. The back strap and pommel cap assembly is unique for a Landwehr sabre though and can be seen on a sabre from the time of Maximilian IV Joseph Elector as witnessed by his crest on the blade,   Pictures courtesy of Old Swords. and on the later model with the crest of King Maximilian II Joseph.   Pictures courtesy of Deutsche Blankwaffen Forum. Though my sabre is of this later type there is no crest on the blade, which is rather puzzling. By the way, it is telling that the only example I could find of this later type of Landwehr sabre, was the dug up one at Deutsche Blankwaffen. The image of the earlier type is the only example on Oldswords. Which may indicate that these Landwehr sabres are not exactly common in today's marketplace. Anyway, I find these sabres quite interesting and from a design point of view they show lots of flair. Also, as the numbers show, fancy scrolling and all, the one I have was meant for business, as the scars on the blade edge and spine are plenty. Work. There was quite a lot of that. When I got this sabre home it turned out to be so rusty that any normal person would have recoiled in disgust. The sellers pictures disguised quite a lot of what in certain circles is called ,, lovely patina '' and also the fact that it had no pommel screw was never mentioned.  How the hell am I supposed to know this particular sabre is of the screw on persuasion? I did not even know what the darn thing was, nor the frigging Landwehr. I just liked the design. So up the wreck went into the attic for a grand overhaul and it took 3 weeks of short sessions to get the job done.        Luckily the rust, for the most part, had stayed clear of the rather magnificent scroll engraving. It sat mainly in the fuller, the tip section and the hilt assembly.    On the other side the scroll termination was more effected.  The scabbard, to my surprise, was still untouched because it was rust blued at some point and this had protected it from damage. The hilt still carries some scars of neglect as this protection was removed a long time ago and it was covered in a thick layer of active rust. So I cleaned the poor thing and polished it up and made a new pommel screw cap, which I could copie from 2 pictures I found of originals and    Yep. One days work. did justice to that nice but worn out scabbard by giving it a good once over with fine steel wool and Uhlans not so secret brew: 1 part Eau d'Uhlan, 1 part of 1 to 10 watered down nitric acid, a dollop of hydrogen peroxide and a soup spoon of table salt. Hung it out in a damp environment, the bathroom. It now has an almost translucent, marble like, deep brown colour, which I cannot quite capture on photo.  Yesterday I coated everything in Ren Wax and gave it a new washer. Done.         After aging it a bit with nitric acid the new cap fits in quite well.  Oh yeah. While working on this prime example of what pure neglect can do to an innocent object of historical interest, I ordered a nice and as it turned out, very well made sword knot from Madame le Breton, who runs a shop called Au Col Bleu in Brest. She caters to French Navy personnel stationed there. I mention her because of the excellence of her merchandise and of her service and because, though the knot is meant for Subaltern Officers of said French Navy, it also is the only knot still made in the style of the first half of the 19th century you will be able to find on the internet in this quality for an in every way fair price. Mr. G. of Emp. C. sells the exact same knot for double the price dear Madame le Breton asks for it. Just saying.  The numbers. Weight OA: 1200 gram. Weight sabre: 740 gram. Length OA: 99 cm. Length sabre: 96 cm. Length blade: 83 cm. Width blade: 31 mm. Thickness at guard: slightly over 8 mm. POB: 11.5 cm from the guard.  Conclusion. I am glad I was able to save this sabre from the scrap heap it was undoubtedly headed for. It would have been such a waste. I hope it will now find a loving new caretaker. After I croke that is. Cheers.  Notes. www.kaisersbunker.com/pt/bayern.htmde.wikipedia.org/wiki/Landwehr_(Milit%C3%A4r)www.historischer-bilderdienst.de/uniformen/deutschland/bayern/index.phpen.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bavarian_Armywww.bayern-buergerwehr.de/Geschichtliches.htmlen.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maximilian_I_Joseph_of_Bavariawww.neuschwanstein.de/englisch/ludwig/biography.htmen.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maximilian_II_of_Bavariawww.antikportal24.de/cms/?Museen:Bayerisches_Armeemuseum:Sammlungwww.rijo.homepage.t-online.de/pdf_2/DE_BY_GA_landwehr.pdfwww.napoleon.org/en/history-of-the-two-empires/biographies/maximilian-i/wiki-de.genealogy.net/Landwehr-Einheitencommons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Royal_monograms_of_Bavaria |
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Post by Dave Kelly on May 19, 2018 21:39:57 GMT
Absolutely Glorious. Your presentation and restoration work!
Thank you!
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2018 22:11:28 GMT
A nice job! My Max II sword is quite similar. It lacks a scabbard, which is no doubt why it was cheap.    There is an 1854 example shown here www.antikportal24.de/cms/?Museen:Bayerisches_Armeemuseum:SammlungPino had one or more of these later examples and variations pop up. A lack of a crest might have meant a transitional period or sale to, say, Austria, who were allied off and on ay that juncture. Your scabbard not unlike the Austrian scabbards. |
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Post by Jordan Williams on May 19, 2018 22:12:05 GMT
Very nice! I'm so glad you got to it and saved it, instead of another collector who screeches about his glorious aged patina.
Bravo on the blade and especially the pommel cap, that looks original. Did you remake the grip too?
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pgandy
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Post by pgandy on May 19, 2018 22:26:58 GMT
Beautiful work and an unusual sword. Well done.
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2018 22:32:40 GMT
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Uhlan
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Post by Uhlan on May 19, 2018 22:34:27 GMT
Thanks for your nice comments all.
Jordan: No, the grip was just cleaned and the wiring is original too.
Regarding the advanced state of decay the sabre was in, it is a small wonder the grip survived at all.
Edelweiss: It looks like yours has a brass grip? A very well cared for example you have.
Really nice. Yes, I have been entertaining that same idea. Transitional.
Mine was made by Weyersberg. What make is yours?
It seems the ferrule with integrated finger loop was not so common. Thanks for the pictures.
I followed the link to the museum and mine is without a doubt an M1854. Their example even has the finger loop.
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2018 23:35:56 GMT
Mine is white brass. That was incandescent lighting.    There was some spotting on the blade but it cleaned well. I had become fascinated with the sunflower motif. I have found no maker's markings. |
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Post by howler on May 19, 2018 23:52:41 GMT
Thanks for your nice comments all. Jordan: No, the grip was just cleaned and the wiring is original too. Regarding the advanced state of decay the sabre was in, it is a small wonder the grip survived at all. Edelweiss: It looks like yours has a brass grip? A very well cared for example you have. Really nice. Yes, I have been entertaining that same idea. Transitional. Mine was made by Weyersberg. What make is yours? It seems the ferrule with integrated finger loop was not so common. Thanks for the pictures. I followed the link to the museum and mine is without a doubt an M1854. Their example even has the finger loop. Was gonna ask about that finger loop. Beautiful sword. |
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harrybeck
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Post by harrybeck on May 19, 2018 23:59:59 GMT
Give it to me now.
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AndiTheBarvarian
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Post by AndiTheBarvarian on May 20, 2018 2:04:29 GMT
Just wow!
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Post by Jordan Williams on May 20, 2018 2:27:26 GMT
Andi were you aware you came from such stock of magnificent sabre makers? Even the blade is wonderful. |
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Uhlan
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Post by Uhlan on May 20, 2018 9:14:57 GMT
This morning I did some further research. I found an early example of the kind of sabre the Bürger Volontär Korps got to use in circa 1806. Bavaria was still under French rule, so this sabre is basically the French Sabre d'Officier d'Infanterie Revolution. See l'Hoste - page 252 - fig. 458. It had a leather scabbard.  And yes, you will see this type of lion head on more germanic sabres too. Edelweiss: Might the landwehr sabre, the one on the blue background, with the double fullers, have been inspired by the Italian M1855 Artillery sabre? As the Landwehr had Artillery units, a close look at the engraving might tell us something. If there are only cannon depicted this can be a sure sign the sabre was meant for an Landwehr Artillery Officer. Palmettes.  Though as Classical a symbol as can be, these are not very frequently found on French weaponry. One of the few examples is to be found on the scabbard of the Glaive de Mars,  while one finds them in abundance on sabres from the more Germanic oriented parts of Europe, especially Austria and Southern Germany. The palmette is also an early Christian symbol, as can be seen on my circa 900AD Byzantine altar stone. It features two peacocks flanking the Fountain of Eternal Youth. The water itself strongly resembles the more Egyptian version of the palmette and lotus motive.  The Byzantine Empire was the Roman Empire ( of the East ). The palmette is also featured in the central position on the Coronation Cloak of the Holy Roman Empire when in its Germanic iteration, so it seems that these symbols were taken over.  Coronation Cloak of the Holy Roman Empire 1135 AD, now in Vienna. The central motive strongly resembles the Fountain of Youth motive on my Byzantine altar stone. On the one hand one sees the romanised Gauls in the West and at the other the Germanic tribes who strongly adhered to their version of a Holy Roman Empire, in the East. This feud shaped European history. I do not know, but the abundant use of the palmette on Germanic weaponry, starting after they trew out the French made me wonder about French decline and German ascendanse. Just thinking out loud. It is probably full of holes anyway. Back to the coffee maker I go. As to the scabbards in the Austro-Hungarian taste, I found a few from around the 1830's.  A virtual monster of an Infantry Officers sabre made for a giant, probably Wurtemberg.  Bavarian Infantry Officers sabre from 1836, palmette and all.  Austria: Säbel für Generäle (Jäger und Infanterie), M 1837. Notice the scabbard drag here. It is the same as on the Landwehr sabre. So, now if you all will excuse me, I have an Italian Albertina to attend to. Later. |
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Post by likehotbutter on May 20, 2018 15:28:28 GMT
Bravo! Work of a maestro indeed
Uhlan could I ask, what is the purpose of ur scabbard solution?
De-rust and forced patination?
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Uhlan
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Post by Uhlan on May 20, 2018 19:12:11 GMT
My scabbard solution is a variation of the solutions used to coat shiny white metal with a layer of dark brown rust in a controlled manner. I make it like making soup from leftovers. Mix what's in the cupboard and presto.Almost anything works as long as it is acidic. The rust layer protects the steel from the elements. In the old days in time of war scabbards and sometimes sabres were dunked into a trough filled with Eau du Regiment and left there for a couple of days.Here it was used as protection and camouflage. Shiny steel can be seen for miles. That is one way to do it. There are a pletora of formulas to get this ,, plum brown '', or Brown Bess brown. It is one of the toughest protection coatings around, much easier to do than hot bluing and almost free of charge. Just drink a lot of beer, pee in a bucket and that's it basically and you can do it anywhere. Think of the Old West here or the Outback. The protective rust layer works so good that on the scabbard I could only find one tiny spot were there was some pitting. That is a job well done during 170 years and considering the bad state the rest of the sabre was in. As this Landwehr scabbard was done that way long ago, on the wearers side the bare metal was starting to show and through time and elements the rust brown was looking worn and tired. That is why I gave it another going over with my solution. To restore the protective layer to its former glory. Rust bluing is just taking it all one step further. You do the controlled rust and when the object is done, it is cooked off in clean water for 10 - 20 minutes. This will turn the layer under the rust a deep luminous real blue. Also much tougher and easier to do than hot blue. I have a whole list of forums that do this kind of work. Most are for gun people. Musket enthousiasts, Colt lovers and the like. They know old stuff from way back. Very interesting. thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=522509www.rugerforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=55723www.finishing.com/136/81.shtmlfirearmshistory.blogspot.nl/2010/08/metal-treatments-browning-and-bluing.htmlwww.youtube.com/results?search_query=rust+bluingIf you want more, just shoot me a PM. I think this rust brown is very beautiful indeed. Cheers. |
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Post by Deleted on May 20, 2018 20:23:54 GMT
I am familiar with the palm motif, including the langets on many early 19th century swords and other fittings. It is the fairly undeniable use of a flower vs a palm, although quite similar. In my example, including a sunflower on each side of the blade. Here are a pair of the lion face Ludwig an Max II swords I was mentioning. This first Ludwig emblazoned sword marked Bormann   It seems invariable that these Bavarian langets include a larger flower's center. Vs a more plainly palm frond type langet theme.   I was remarking in a separate discussion elsewhere on some of the imperial and restoration eras pursuing the Egyptian themes of floral and so also on a pommel of mine.  As to scabbards, it may be that foot officers used leather scabbards, which may account for so many bare swords. |
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Uhlan
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Post by Uhlan on May 20, 2018 20:59:14 GMT
Yes, the sun ( flower ) is quite common also on French sabres and blades.
There is always that center, often with a face.
The pommel on the Spadroon with the spiderweb guard plate looks like an Egyptian column.
The palmette is again very close to the Byzantine and the Coronation cloak ones.
It must have taken some time to find that beautiful honey coloured horn for the grip.
Shame it cracked. Sometimes it is rust on the tang that puts stress on the grip. I hope it is stable now.
Very nice sabres indeed.
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Post by Pino on May 21, 2018 0:37:16 GMT
Fabulous work you did on this fine looking sword!
Always loved the design of these Bavarian swords, they sure know how to make sexy swords!
BTW regarding the use of the lighter; is it the fuel you use or do you burn a certain spot with it?
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Post by likehotbutter on May 22, 2018 1:56:15 GMT
My scabbard solution is a variation of the solutions used to coat shiny white metal with a layer of dark brown rust in a controlled manner. I make it like making soup from leftovers. Mix what's in the cupboard and presto.Almost anything works as long as it is acidic. The rust layer protects the steel from the elements. In the old days in time of war scabbards and sometimes sabres were dunked into a trough filled with Eau du Regiment and left there for a couple of days.Here it was used as protection and camouflage. Shiny steel can be seen for miles. That is one way to do it. There are a pletora of formulas to get this ,, plum brown '', or Brown Bess brown. It is one of the toughest protection coatings around, much easier to do than hot bluing and almost free of charge. Just drink a lot of beer, pee in a bucket and that's it basically and you can do it anywhere. Think of the Old West here or the Outback. The protective rust layer works so good that on the scabbard I could only find one tiny spot were there was some pitting. That is a job well done during 170 years and considering the bad state the rest of the sabre was in. As this Landwehr scabbard was done that way long ago, on the wearers side the bare metal was starting to show and through time and elements the rust brown was looking worn and tired. That is why I gave it another going over with my solution. To restore the protective layer to its former glory. Rust bluing is just taking it all one step further. You do the controlled rust and when the object is done, it is cooked off in clean water for 10 - 20 minutes. This will turn the layer under the rust a deep luminous real blue. Also much tougher and easier to do than hot blue. I have a whole list of forums that do this kind of work. Most are for gun people. Musket enthousiasts, Colt lovers and the like. They know old stuff from way back. Very interesting. thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=522509www.rugerforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=55723www.finishing.com/136/81.shtmlfirearmshistory.blogspot.nl/2010/08/metal-treatments-browning-and-bluing.htmlwww.youtube.com/results?search_query=rust+bluingIf you want more, just shoot me a PM. I think this rust brown is very beautiful indeed. Cheers. Sweet I'll go test this one some of my scabbards How do u apply the solution? Some of the brass seams have holes so dont think soaking in a filled pvc pipe would work? Thinking of brushing on then wrapping in cling wrap to keep the fluids in close contact |
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Uhlan
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Post by Uhlan on May 22, 2018 4:53:38 GMT
Pino: ,, BTW regarding the use of the lighter; is it the fuel you use or do you burn a certain spot with it? ''
No, It is there to show the scale, like the cigarette. Those Chinese diamond tipped files are that small.
Tiny as they are, they chew steel like nothing else. Perfect for those small delicate jobs.
Likehotbutter: What I learned from the gun boys:
You have to have a space you can keep humid. I use the bathroom. Some of them make a kind of tent from garbage bags and put a tub of water in it, under the object. This you will have to figure out yourself. Nothing must touch the object, that is for sure. That is why the plastic gloves. Never touch the object with bare hands. Skin oil will kill it all.
Hang it with the opening down in your place of choice. I suspend it from the drag and the first ring. Might be better to make a platform from a piece of wood, screw a piece of a wood profile on it that will fit into the scabbard, so it stands stable and with the mouth down.
Now clean the scabbard with ammonia and water. This is why I use the bathroom. Do not have to care about the run off. Take a clean sponge and apply the solution. Just wet the thing but not too wet. You do not want the solution to run.
I have a tub of water on standby, so at this stage I just dunk the water on the floor, close the door and go on my merry way. A couple of hours later repeat. Also the water on the floor.
Soon enough the scabbard will show rust. Just go on until the entire thing is covered.
This may take a few days, depending on humidity and how strong the solution is. The beauty of the rust layer is that it does not eat away at the steel. The scabbards done like this are prestine underneath. Remember that when you make the solution. Read the links!
Now. when the scabbard is totally covered you take it off and with degreased fine steelwool polish it up. Get the lose rust off. And hang it out again. Repeat until after carding, that is what it is called, the rust layer is even and stable and looks, well, good. You may now polish and wax the scabbard or boil it off in clean water to turn the rust layer into blue. Your choice.
If, on the odd chance, after this adventure in the bathroom, there still are females around the house, you may think very hard about not antagonising them any further with the boiling affair. It is easier for smaller objects anyway, like trigger assemblies or action plates or whatever.
This is the short of it. Read them links! If you need more, again, PM me.
Edit: The ingredients are important when you work with white steel. Read about other formulas.
Scabbards that already have an old layer are more easy to do. The general ,, tone '' is already set. In that case you only fill in the blanks, so to say.
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