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Post by cossack on Mar 7, 2018 2:57:34 GMT
Hello - new to the forum here, although I've been a lurker for a while. I have a few newer production swords and a few antiques, but this is one I don't know much about, although I find this to be an interesting opportunity:
I've been offered a trade/purchase opportunity for a late war Nagoya arsenal NCO Sword with matching # scabbard. It has the Iron Tsuba. It was described as overall VG condition with a little light pitting on the blade and a small nick in the kisaki, as well as some oxidation on the scabbard. The original tassel is present but rotting, so he has a repro to go with it.
Also included are capture papers from the British soldier who brought it home.
Any ideas on approximate value? I wish I had a photo to go with, and I'll make sure to see one before we finalize the deal. I know the seller and have dealt with him before, and I've found him to be scrupulous and a good communicator.
Thanks for any advice and pointers!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2018 3:12:22 GMT
Welcome
"I've found him to be scrupulous and a good communicator"
If you trust him, just ask for his best price. Verbal only descriptions are hardly a way to evaluate anything. There were many reproductions over the decades.
Capture papers? What exactly do they read? Again, we are playing blind man's bluff here.
Twenty questions?
A genuine item (forget the papers without proof of association), some selling for $500-$600. Many listed at much more but trust your seller. You don't mention their asking price. Again, you seem to be fishing (with good intention or not).
I will add that more than one dealer I work with has given me discounts as being a repeat patron. Asking for their best price has done me very well, even if it takes them by surprise.
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Post by cossack on Mar 7, 2018 3:34:29 GMT
Well, what he's offered is a trade of the sword for my WWII-era pistol (about $400 in value) + another $200 from me. He didn't have it listed with an asking price, but offered it in response to his interest in my gun.
I understand about verbal only descriptions, and I won't be trading until I see photos. Are there any signs to look for to help identify a fake or reproduction? While I find him to be scrupulous, I don't know that he's an expert himself.
The $500-$600 figure is helpful - at least giving me a ballpark figure. Thank you.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2018 4:21:32 GMT
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Post by Robert in California on Mar 7, 2018 4:41:26 GMT
Warning....if the tsuka is (cast) iron, then it is a factory made, through-hardened, piece of junk...as one long time collector (John Yumoto prehaps, described such as good for digging in the garden). NCO swords....just junk...historic junk but still just junk. Avoid. Waste of money. For $600usa one can buy a top line Sinosword or Huawei katana of much higher quality. RinC
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Post by Robert in California on Mar 7, 2018 4:43:11 GMT
Buy a NCO gunto and you will later come to feel you wasted your $600.
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Post by cossack on Mar 7, 2018 4:59:42 GMT
Edelweiss, those links are very helpful! Thank you.
Robert, thank you for that perspective. Do they not seem to even have value as an investment? As mentioned, I don't know much about these, but it seems that WWII militaria in general, and especially weapons, only goes up in value. For example, Late occupation-era FN pistols made with sub-par metal and heat treatment (some even unsafe to shoot) bring a nice premium just because they are Nazi proofed - much more so than even ten years ago.
I know it's apples to oranges, and I'm not trying to challenge you, but rather to learn to what extent the lessons I've learned in gun trading apply in the sword world.
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Post by Jordan Williams on Mar 7, 2018 5:09:35 GMT
Edelweiss, those links are very helpful! Thank you. Robert, thank you for that perspective. Do they not seem to even have value as an investment? As mentioned, I don't know much about these, but it seems that WWII militaria in general, and especially weapons, only goes up in value. For example, Late occupation-era FN pistols made with sub-par metal and heat treatment (some even unsafe to shoot) bring a nice premium just because they are Nazi proofed - much more so than even ten years ago. I know it's apples to oranges, and I'm not trying to challenge you, but rather to learn to what extent the lessons I've learned in gun trading apply in the sword world. The question you have to ask is will the collecting world still value the junky NCO Gunto at 600? Or will your gun rise in value as well? My advice would be, if you want a WW2 Japanese sword try and sell him the pistol, save up another 300 from the 600 you would be effectively trading, and buy a Army officers version with a quality blade. Matthew Jensen has a very nice one for 900 in the classifieds, and Stewart's Militaria has two at around 995 and 1100+. Also, is it worth it to you? I have swords in my collection that are worth more to me than the collecting world, and the collecting world has swords that are worth more than I would want to pay for them. If you really want one because of the history, and specifically the context it exists in as an NCO sword than go for it, but otherwise there are better pieces to go after. Anyway, just my opinion.
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Post by cossack on Mar 7, 2018 5:20:26 GMT
Ok. That's some valuable perspective. I honestly had never considered getting one until he suggested it as a trade consideration. A Japanese military sword is not something I'm likely to pursue unless a uniquely good opportunity presents itself. I wasn't sure if that's what this was.
My pistol is a niche one, a French 1935a, whose value is held back by the fact that it shoots an obscure cartridge, and there aren't many WWII-Indochina era French collectors out there compared to US/German/Japanese/Brit/Soviet collectors. However, I have a fascination with the pacific war, as well as family ties (several gave their lives at Bougainville and in Burma, and my grandpa told me stories from his time in the CBI theater), so I figured it was worth exploring, at least.
Anyway, I'm at least in a position to make a much more informed decision. Thank you.
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Post by Robert in California on Mar 7, 2018 6:05:40 GMT
Investments require resale value which require buyers. With low quality Japanese swords (of which NCO katanas are the lowest of the low), who will buy? Collectors want pristine stuff unless a famous sword. For example, I have a Shinto, possibly Koto waki and a Shinshinto katana (both mumei). Run of the mill blades...nice but do not generate lust and excitement. Furniture is nothing special...mismatched stuff in the case of waki. Too good to sell at Longquan China prices. Bought the katana about 38 or 39 years ago for about $2,500usa. If lucky, maybe I could find a buyer at $5000...which makes it a poor investment for something I've had that long. The US dollar is a small fraction of what it used to be. Break even would be est. $15,000...but no sword student will pay that for a ninhonto for practice. And condition of the sword is not good enough for a collector. Collectors don't want NCO junk swords. Sword students don't want them either. Buy if you just have to have it...but herding cats would be easier than getting it resold for $600. Mathew Jenson is IMO a good guy and would not cheat or sucker you:
Matthew Jensen has a very nice one for 900 in the classifieds, and Stewart's Militaria has two at around 995 and 1100+.
Better to save up for a real katana. NCO guntos with machine made and metal tsuka are not such.
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stormmaster
Member
I like viking/migration era swords
Posts: 7,649
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Post by stormmaster on Mar 7, 2018 8:17:05 GMT
i think its best if you just order a custom made katana from sinoswords or huawei like robert said if u just want something to represent your heritage,
however if you really just want a piece of history and u dont care that the quality and basically everything will be inferior to a modern reproduction you can get now, then go for it, its not exactly a great deal but its also not overpriced from the listings i've seen of other nco guntos online
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Post by cossack on Mar 7, 2018 19:12:04 GMT
Here's a photo. imgur.com/SaVhbLXAs I mentioned, Japanese swords aren't really my main area of interest; it's just an opportunity that came along that I'm trying to learn about. You have all helped a lot with that. But I'm not going to pay more for a reproduction sword, even one of substantially better quality. The only appeal of this one for me is the fact that it was in the field during the war, or any potential it has as future trading/selling stock. I'm leaning away from it due to what you all have been telling me.
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stormmaster
Member
I like viking/migration era swords
Posts: 7,649
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Post by stormmaster on Mar 7, 2018 19:55:45 GMT
Interesting it has a bo-hi, any more pics of it overall?
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Post by Jordan Williams on Mar 7, 2018 22:44:34 GMT
More pics would be greatly appreciated.
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Post by cossack on Mar 7, 2018 23:24:55 GMT
More pics would be greatly appreciated. Roger that. Will post 'em when I get 'em.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2018 3:36:41 GMT
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stormmaster
Member
I like viking/migration era swords
Posts: 7,649
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Post by stormmaster on Mar 8, 2018 4:37:56 GMT
interesting, so its hilt is aluminum then
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Post by william m on Mar 8, 2018 10:37:48 GMT
Aside from the unusual tsuba, this seem to be a fairly typical nco katana.
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Post by ambulocetus on Apr 10, 2018 23:43:22 GMT
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