Ifrit
Member
More edgy than a double edge sword
Posts: 3,284
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Post by Ifrit on Feb 18, 2018 1:11:55 GMT
If I was a billionaire, then sure, I would own this knife. But as a normal human? Naw
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Post by natqui on Feb 21, 2018 1:01:50 GMT
I have a Rockstead and I rotate it into my carry, resale value be damned. And I have other high end production, midtech, and custom knives that I treat the same way. Collecting is all about fun, and you find particular aspects in higher end pieces that you don't find in standard production. It's the same with swords. You buy what you can afford and save up for better if you reach that stage in your collection. Obviously the situation is different for someone looking purely for a tool. There are all types of collectors to be sure. The "Sebenza thing" is most notable in the folding knife world. What do you mean by Sebenza thing?? These knives do not cost as much as the ones we're talking about^^ Is more like 300-600$ price tag. But they're made with CPM-S35VN at about 60Hrc...which is pretty good...right at the top if I may add. So you actually pay the value of steel etc. Wouldn't you agree? (I do not own a sebenza. I'm just trying to have a conversation )
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Post by LG Martial Arts on Feb 21, 2018 1:50:05 GMT
Collector knives are subjective: they cost what the market will bear. Just a few years ago, Hinderer knives (production, not custom) were going for over $600 on the secondary market, and were super hard to find. Fast forward to about the end of 2015, and the market fell, seeing as Rick bought a lot more equipment/a new shop, and was able to produce way more knives than before. Now, you can get an NIB Hinderer XM-18 for under $350 on the secondary market. This is only one example though. There are other knives (Shirogorov, Lambert, Peña, Christiansen, Borka, etc) that go well over $1K, and can be either “users” or safe queens. on the other hand, you have knives like the 2 Kiku Matsuda Large Hurricane G’s I have, and while they look great (fantastic imho), are meant to be used even though the price tag is close to $1K each. Same thing goes with swords - some are meant to be “lookers”, others as performers, and yet others that cross into both types. Here’s a few pics of the Matsuda knives for your viewing pleasure
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Post by howler on Feb 21, 2018 3:37:08 GMT
There are all types of collectors to be sure. The "Sebenza thing" is most notable in the folding knife world. What do you mean by Sebenza thing?? These knives do not cost as much as the ones we're talking about^^ Is more like 300-600$ price tag. But they're made with CPM-S35VN at about 60Hrc...which is pretty good...right at the top if I may add. So you actually pay the value of steel etc. Wouldn't you agree? (I do not own a sebenza. I'm just trying to have a conversation ) Just type something like "is Sebenza price worth it" on your computer, as it's been exhibit A in price worth discussions on various forums for well over a decade, which was the point of this post. Of course the price point is not exact, as the knife mentioned is in the thousands, but the point is the discussion of knife worth, which can still be illustrated at lower price points. For instance, my Spyderco Delica cost me $22 dollars...a FAR cry from $600. And, no, FOR ME, the "fit and finish" SURE AS HELL ain't worth the extra several hundred over, say, a Benchmade or Spyderco costing under $200 and using a super steel far superior to CPM-S35VN. But, it is "worth it" for others who view it as a functional "work of art", as I said that there are all tlypes of collectors out there, but I'm a price point man, so not for me.
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Post by RufusScorpius on Feb 21, 2018 11:51:07 GMT
Good insight, howler. I will add that "price point" tips at the "quality point" where the cost is so low that quality suffers. In my experience, a good user knife starts at about $25, any lower and the manufacterer starts to make quality cuts that negatively affect performance. Sure, there are knives like the Opinel for under that amount that are really good, but as a general rule of thumb, $25 is the price point for me.
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Post by bluetrain on Feb 21, 2018 12:52:48 GMT
My idea of a good, practical knife is one of the Mora knives from Sweden. I say practical because they are cheap enough to lose without too much grief and good enough to do most anything you'd want to do with a sheath knife. The sheaths, by the way, are probably cheap to make but seem to be really good. I've seen some better quality knives with really awful, cheap-looking leather sheaths, too.
But there are a number of Scandinavian-produced sheath knives in various sizes that are really knice-looking. To me, the beauty of those knives is in the wood grips, although some are plain. When I say the wood looks really nice, I'm thinking of the sort of wood you would have seen on an antique Kentucky rifle, typically in curly maple. The equivalent for a Scandinavian knife seems to usually be curly birch. Most of the ones I especially like run in the $100 to $200 range, some being less. The sheaths are usually nice-looking, too, but you have to like that funny flip at the bottom of the sheath.
But for the swords I like, we're a little more upscale.
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Post by MOK on Feb 21, 2018 16:35:20 GMT
Frankly, you'll never get $1000 worth of functional value from any knife. There are limits to what steel can do, no matter what is done to or with it - no matter how well designed and made a knife is, unless it's straight up magic, it will not and CANNOT outperform a $10 Mora significantly enough to justify the price on utility alone. Once you get past maybe a couple hundred, all the rest is necessarily just perceived value (aesthetics, prestige, investment, that sort of things).
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Post by MOK on Feb 21, 2018 16:38:42 GMT
When I say the wood looks really nice, I'm thinking of the sort of wood you would have seen on an antique Kentucky rifle, typically in curly maple. The equivalent for a Scandinavian knife seems to usually be curly birch. Yeah, visakoivu is very nearly synonymous with traditional knife handles in Finnish.
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Post by natqui on Feb 21, 2018 16:43:46 GMT
Just type something like "is Sebenza price worth it" on your computer, as it's been exhibit A in price worth discussions on various forums for well over a decade, which was the point of this post. Of course the price point is not exact, as the knife mentioned is in the thousands, but the point is the discussion of knife worth, which can still be illustrated at lower price points. For instance, my Spyderco Delica cost me $22 dollars...a FAR cry from $600. And, no, FOR ME, the "fit and finish" SURE AS HELL ain't worth the extra several hundred over, say, a Benchmade or Spyderco costing under $200 and using a super steel far superior to CPM-S35VN. But, it is "worth it" for others who view it as a functional "work of art", as I said that there are all tlypes of collectors out there, but I'm a price point man, so not for me. Ok, I'll go and see what people say. I also found some YT reviews What would you call a super steel?? I've lately been reading about the various steels specs, and s35VN seems to be at the top in all 3 main relevant categories (edge retention, rust resistance and abrasion resistance)
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Post by bluetrain on Feb 21, 2018 18:04:06 GMT
Some knives have become very expensive, apparently, because of the demand created by the association of those brands with combat use or use by a famous organization. Here I'm thinking of Randall Knives, supposedly the knife to have in Vietnam. There prices go for above $500. Another knife is the fighting knife of Rex Applegate that can be had for many dollars.
One brand of knife that has always appealed to me is the Russell belt knife, also called the Canadian boat knife. The price is reasonable at a little over $100 for the regular production model. But that's a little too high for me and I've never had one. Copies exist. One reason I've probably never bought one is that I rarely ever use a knife when I'm out in the woods, where, in theory, you would want one the most. Same thing at home, outside of the kitchen, where knives abound.
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Post by howler on Feb 21, 2018 20:48:40 GMT
Just type something like "is Sebenza price worth it" on your computer, as it's been exhibit A in price worth discussions on various forums for well over a decade, which was the point of this post. Of course the price point is not exact, as the knife mentioned is in the thousands, but the point is the discussion of knife worth, which can still be illustrated at lower price points. For instance, my Spyderco Delica cost me $22 dollars...a FAR cry from $600. And, no, FOR ME, the "fit and finish" SURE AS HELL ain't worth the extra several hundred over, say, a Benchmade or Spyderco costing under $200 and using a super steel far superior to CPM-S35VN. But, it is "worth it" for others who view it as a functional "work of art", as I said that there are all tlypes of collectors out there, but I'm a price point man, so not for me. Ok, I'll go and see what people say. I also found some YT reviews What would you call a super steel?? I've lately been reading about the various steels specs, and s35VN seems to be at the top in all 3 main relevant categories (edge retention, rust resistance and abrasion resistance) I'm no expert on the "super steel" thing, as s35VN (is that really much better than s30V) is plenty good. I know for fixed blades, 3V kicks arse. For folders, Benchmade and Spyderco experiment a lot with new designs (and new steels). Off the top of my head,s90v, s100v (I might be off on exact order of numbers ), M390, Elmax, M4, ZDP189 (more a slicing steel, so maybe brittle for some applications. The "super steel" thing, itself can be another subject that can be critiqued as snobbish, as do you really need more performance than, say, CPM154, D2, VG10, S30V? Heck, not long ago, Aus8 and 440C were "super steels".
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Post by elbrittania39 on Feb 21, 2018 20:52:09 GMT
If you're a collector I guess a knife is worth whatever you think it is
But if you want it to function, a knife just needs to be sharp, durable, and comfortable. You could get all that for $20.
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Post by randomnobody on Feb 22, 2018 0:02:33 GMT
Cheapest knife I carry and use (hard, at that) cost 9 Euro. Most expensive knife I've ever bought (well, new knife) was about $225, and the only reason I don't carry that one is plain bulk. Just not comfortable in the pocket. Might work well clipped to a belt, instead, but if I'm wearing a knife on my belt I prefer fixed blades over folders and on that note, the fixed-blade I carry was something like $150-175... I seldom have occasion to use it, though, as I tend to use my folders more often. At the end of the day, though, to answer the original question: Of course this knife is really worth this much, to somebody. Somebody other than me, and probably not "you" or most folk here, but somebody out there would pay this much for this knife.
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Post by howler on Feb 22, 2018 2:23:03 GMT
If you're a collector I guess a knife is worth whatever you think it is But if you want it to function, a knife just needs to be sharp, durable, and comfortable. You could get all that for $20. Yup, and if your patient and look around you can get GREAT knives (folders and fixed) in the $25-$60 range that go toe to toe with the expensive stuff, and some of it actually IS the expensive stuff, but at huge discounts.
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Post by elbrittania39 on Feb 22, 2018 2:33:25 GMT
If you're a collector I guess a knife is worth whatever you think it is But if you want it to function, a knife just needs to be sharp, durable, and comfortable. You could get all that for $20. Yup, and if your patient and look around you can get GREAT knives (folders and fixed) in the $25-$60 range that go toe to toe with the expensive stuff, and some of it actually IS the expensive stuff, but at huge discounts. Yup, I've been using a $40 CRKT for 2 years now, only touched up the edge twice and never had a single issue with it.
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Post by howler on Feb 22, 2018 20:58:31 GMT
Yup, and if your patient and look around you can get GREAT knives (folders and fixed) in the $25-$60 range that go toe to toe with the expensive stuff, and some of it actually IS the expensive stuff, but at huge discounts. Yup, I've been using a $40 CRKT for 2 years now, only touched up the edge twice and never had a single issue with it. Tough knives, and traditionally big users of Aus8.
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Post by natqui on Feb 23, 2018 11:21:51 GMT
Ok, I'll go and see what people say. I also found some YT reviews What would you call a super steel?? I've lately been reading about the various steels specs, and s35VN seems to be at the top in all 3 main relevant categories (edge retention, rust resistance and abrasion resistance) I'm no expert on the "super steel" thing, as s35VN (is that really much better than s30V) is plenty good. I know for fixed blades, 3V kicks arse. For folders, Benchmade and Spyderco experiment a lot with new designs (and new steels). Off the top of my head,s90v, s100v (I might be off on exact order of numbers ), M390, Elmax, M4, ZDP189 (more a slicing steel, so maybe brittle for some applications. The "super steel" thing, itself can be another subject that can be critiqued as snobbish, as do you really need more performance than, say, CPM154, D2, VG10, S30V? Heck, not long ago, Aus8 and 440C were "super steels". I'm about to order a folder from that website I talked about, the blade is Nitro-V steel. It's fairly new and they cryo HT it too. According to the specs from z knives( or whatever that webpage is) it seems to be better than most steels used. Is there some website to compare steels and get graphs? The one I talked about is pretty weird, and I can't figure how to make it work and compare a few steels :/
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Post by howler on Feb 23, 2018 21:54:39 GMT
I'm no expert on the "super steel" thing, as s35VN (is that really much better than s30V) is plenty good. I know for fixed blades, 3V kicks arse. For folders, Benchmade and Spyderco experiment a lot with new designs (and new steels). Off the top of my head,s90v, s100v (I might be off on exact order of numbers ), M390, Elmax, M4, ZDP189 (more a slicing steel, so maybe brittle for some applications. The "super steel" thing, itself can be another subject that can be critiqued as snobbish, as do you really need more performance than, say, CPM154, D2, VG10, S30V? Heck, not long ago, Aus8 and 440C were "super steels". I'm about to order a folder from that website I talked about, the blade is Nitro-V steel. It's fairly new and they cryo HT it too. According to the specs from z knives( or whatever that webpage is) it seems to be better than most steels used. Is there some website to compare steels and get graphs? The one I talked about is pretty weird, and I can't figure how to make it work and compare a few steels :/ The Nitro-V appears to be very similar to Sandvik 14c28n, which I have a Kershaw Shallot (paid $35 or something for) comprised of this. I think (in folders) it is just short of the 154cm, vg10 realm (very good). In large choppers, it also performs well (similar to 5120...I might have butchered the exact number sequence ) I usually just type in the name of steel I hear about and read what people say from the "soup" of the web. What is the exact knife your looking at and what is the price asked for? What I do is see if I there are products that can replicate its capabilities at a lower price point. Of course, this will differ from each individual, as some people may pay significantly more for various aspects (fit, finish, aesthetics, etc...) beyond material composition.
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Post by natqui on Feb 23, 2018 23:01:55 GMT
The Nitro-V appears to be very similar to Sandvik 14c28n, which I have a Kershaw Shallot (paid $35 or something for) comprised of this. I think (in folders) it is just short of the 154cm, vg10 realm (very good). In large choppers, it also performs well (similar to 5120...I might have butchered the exact number sequence ) I usually just type in the name of steel I hear about and read what people say from the "soup" of the web. What is the exact knife your looking at and what is the price asked for? What I do is see if I there are products that can replicate its capabilities at a lower price point. Of course, this will differ from each individual, as some people may pay significantly more for various aspects (fit, finish, aesthetics, etc...) beyond material composition. Here's the knife: 110 bucks and only 4$ to ship to europe, which is amazing. They use the famous benchmade axis lock, now possible to reproduce since the 10 year pattent is over, with omega springs. 3.25". I'll just copy/paste the specs, it's easier^^: Specs:
Produced by Massdrop Designed by TJ Schwarz Manufactured by Millit Knives in Meridian, Idaho Blade: Nitro-V stainless steel Blade hardness: HRc 57–59 Blade type: Drop-point Grind: Hollow Handle: G-10 Washers: Phosphorous bronze Spring-loaded sliding lock pin Lock pin is a single piece of hardened steel Ambidextrous opening with dual thumbstuds Removable pocket clip for tip-up carry on either side Lanyard hole Jimped spine Blade thickness: 0.125 in (3.2 mm) Handle thickness: 0.5 in (1.2 cm) Blade length: 3.25 in (8.3 cm) Closed length: 4.5 in (11.4 cm) Overall length: 7.65 in (19.4 cm) Weight: 4.3 oz (122 g) Warranty: Limited lifetime, provided by Millit via Massdrop support
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Post by howler on Feb 24, 2018 2:31:37 GMT
The Nitro-V appears to be very similar to Sandvik 14c28n, which I have a Kershaw Shallot (paid $35 or something for) comprised of this. I think (in folders) it is just short of the 154cm, vg10 realm (very good). In large choppers, it also performs well (similar to 5120...I might have butchered the exact number sequence ) I usually just type in the name of steel I hear about and read what people say from the "soup" of the web. What is the exact knife your looking at and what is the price asked for? What I do is see if I there are products that can replicate its capabilities at a lower price point. Of course, this will differ from each individual, as some people may pay significantly more for various aspects (fit, finish, aesthetics, etc...) beyond material composition. Here's the knife: 110 bucks and only 4$ to ship to europe, which is amazing. They use the famous benchmade axis lock, now possible to reproduce since the 10 year pattent is over, with omega springs. 3.25". I'll just copy/paste the specs, it's easier^^: Specs:
Produced by Massdrop Designed by TJ Schwarz Manufactured by Millit Knives in Meridian, Idaho Blade: Nitro-V stainless steel Blade hardness: HRc 57–59 Blade type: Drop-point Grind: Hollow Handle: G-10 Washers: Phosphorous bronze Spring-loaded sliding lock pin Lock pin is a single piece of hardened steel Ambidextrous opening with dual thumbstuds Removable pocket clip for tip-up carry on either side Lanyard hole Jimped spine Blade thickness: 0.125 in (3.2 mm) Handle thickness: 0.5 in (1.2 cm) Blade length: 3.25 in (8.3 cm) Closed length: 4.5 in (11.4 cm) Overall length: 7.65 in (19.4 cm) Weight: 4.3 oz (122 g) Warranty: Limited lifetime, provided by Millit via Massdrop support I'm not knowledgeable on European pricing, but know that is a deal on the shipping. $110 seems high (for me) but your not getting raped or anything. I purchased my Benchmade Griptilian (154cm) for around $67, and you can get Spyderco Endura (vg10) all day long for under that price, and both those blades around 1/2" longer. This brings to all the "subjective" aspects of knife buying. If you can handle it in person, even better, but if you simply like the looks, I don't see why that would be a bad purchase. Remember, your a knife collector/nut, so you will end of with a drawer full anyway. You are nearing the pricing range of knives with steel like s90v, 110v, cv20 (I think) and other exotics, and even the s35v that you mentioned earlier, which I think is a better steel than Nitro-V. But again, you will have a VAST collection in the end.
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