French 1880-1882-1883 Cavalry Swords
Jan 27, 2018 2:51:48 GMT
Post by Pino on Jan 27, 2018 2:51:48 GMT
I recently got my hands on a very rare trial pattern 1880 sword for the Cavalerie de Reserve (French term for heavy cavalry) but also the rare elusive 1880 for Light Cavalry later on!
After wanting to write a bit about that one I realized I also had a 1882 Light Cav and a 1822/1883 transformed sword, all of which shared a common origin so here’s the thing.
Chronology
1880: Test patterns introduced
1882: New regulation for saddlery equipment ---> single ring scabbards
1882: Cavalry model 82 issued to all cavalry regiments
1883: 1822 patterns transformed to straightened patterns
1886: End of 1882-83 production
3 for the price of 1!! (from top to bottom: 1883-1882-1880)
1880 trial pattern swords
9 years after the Franco-Prussian war the idea to continue standardization of weapons continued that year at Chatellereault. The debate on cut vs thrusts was still undergoing and special prototype/trial patterns were thus created who were more or less ‘’frankenstein’’ swords made up of parts of already existing models but
The main focus of change was with the blades: the trial model for Light Cav was given a more curved blade which was single fuller (without the little gutter); the Reserve cavalry (cuirassiers) model had 2 prototypes: one with a M1854 3 branch hilt + a straight single fuller blade and another one which had a 2 branch hilt (also for dragoons).
These are some of the most obscure and rare French swords to be encountered. They are the trial series which were made in the early years of the 1880's in response to years of studies and cut vs thrust theoretical debates and the French Army wanting to end the quest for the ultimate, universal sword model intended for both Light and Heavy cavalry units.
These trial patterns incorporated elements of previous models that were mashed together for economical and practical purposes, the parts were hilts and pommels of the LC1822 & HC1854 models respectively.
They were never officially issued because they served as experimental patterns made in limited quantity and intended to be tested by units; therefore seen as transition specimen between the 1854, 1822 and 1882 swords.
The two top swords are the same trial pattern but one is for the Cavalerie de Reserve (cuirassiers) and the other for Dragoons.
As you can note they are made of parts of the 1822 LC and 1854 HC models but the blades are made straight and with one simple fuller.
Both are dated 1881 and as such are the predecessor patterns that allowed the creation of the 1882 sword series (which was made with a different pommel cap).
The most interesting one of the bunch is the 1880 Light cav trooper sword trial version.
It borrows the hilt of the 1822 LC trooper sword but the pommel cap is from the 1854 HC sword, the novelty resides in the blade which stays curved but has no back fuller (Montmorency style) and the tip is spear pointed.
Those familiar with the 1890 Chilean sword will recognize the same type of blade which had been recycled for that export model.
Markings (they are the same on all 3 because they were made at the same time)
Blades and hilts:
R circle = Director J.P.J. Reallon (1875-1883)
B circle = 2nd class controller J.M. Brenier (1874-1889)
S with star = controller 1st class F.L. Sprenger (1879-1885)
Exclusively on hilts:
G lozenge with star = 2nd class controller J. Girolt (1875-1883)
1880 Light cav
Rack no.482 on hilt and scabbard
Total: 106cm
Sword: 103cm
Blade: 87cm
1881 Dragoon
Rack no.1149 on hilt and scabbard
Total: 110cm
Sword: 108cm
Blade: 92.5cm
1881 Cav Reserve
Rack no.1355 on hilt and scabbard
Total: 113cm
Sword: 112cm
Blade: 95cm
After discussion and debates it was finally the straight, single fuller blade with lenticular tip and that seemed to have convinced everyone and was finally adopted for all cavalry units.
The resulting new model sword was thus composed of a straight single fuller blade mounted on a retooled 1822 Light Cav hilt. Gone were the curved and double fuller blades and the 3 branch hilts.
The new blade that convinced everyone, charming lad it must have been!
1882 Cavalry sword
Adopted on August 22 1882, the winning new model sword started to be issued to all cavalry regiments, the only distinction being the length of the blade:
cuirassiers received a 95cm long blade
dragoon had a 92.5cm blade
light cavalry regiments had a 87cm long blade
The hilt was pretty much the same as the Light cav model except the meeting part of the 2 branches was simplified along with the junction point of the branch and pommel which was widened; the blade had a standard width of 30mm at the ricasso, single fullered on both sides and spear pointed. To keep up with the new suspension system of 1882 that fastened swords to the saddle, the scabbard was made with only one ring.
Last but not least, from now on all swords and scabbards were directly marked with matching serial numbers by the manufacturer, this was formerly done before by the regimental armourers who marked or erased them during their postings.
Back of the blade reads : Mfture d'armes de Chatt Janvier 1883 - Cav rie LegerMle 1882
comparison of hilt form of Mle1882 vs M1822/83
View of the back of hilt, compared with the 1883 found below, it is made much more coarse (especially the junction part of the branches)
1822-1883 Transformed Light Cavalry Sword
*By the time I was completing this Afoo had already posted his article, which I recommend for further info*
In order to finish standardization and by request of some Light cavalry units, it was ordered on 29 august 1883 to straight the blades and scabbards of 1822 LC models still in service. The complexity of this operation meant it could only be done at the Chatellereault facilities because they were the only ones equipped to do it. The blades were not only straightened, they were also cut down from 92cm to 87cm in order to follow their 1882 counterparts.
Because it was made using an old 1822 blade, these 1883 models are easily recognized by their Montmorency blade, the back of which is marked Mfture de Chat Cavl legere 1822 Tfé 1883 (transformed 1883).
Transform and (maybe not) Roll out!!
View of the back
Blade stamps
The 1822 straightened blade
Conclusion
The whole experience did not prove to be successful: the new model swords 1882 did not last much and failed to satisfy Heavy and Light cavalry regiments that pointed out the 2 branch hilts did not offer good protection and that the single fuller blade was too fragile, for these reasons the 1882 sword was never really used by these units. A sort of compromise was achieved when, now being out of production, the hilts of older models were replaced by the 1882.
This gave way to a new sword hybrid that had 1854 blades with 1882 hilts.
The 1822/83 fared no better, after a while it was observed that some of the blade got either back to their natural curve and sometimes twisted and got stuck inside the straight scabbards. During the process about only 3000 of these transformed sword were made before the project was cancelled.
So about 4 years later on November 10 1886, production of the 1882 and 83 models halted and was abandoned. The old curved 1822 LC was back in the game and reequipped to the light cavalry units and that was until another candidate showed up in 1897.
Specs
Weight
1881 Cav Res: 2.05lbs / 1057gr
1882: 2.07lbs / 1122gr
1883: 2.05lbs / 1057gr
POB
1881: 3.5'' / 9cm
1882: 3.25'' / 8.5cm
1883: 4.5'' / 11cm
After wanting to write a bit about that one I realized I also had a 1882 Light Cav and a 1822/1883 transformed sword, all of which shared a common origin so here’s the thing.
Chronology
1880: Test patterns introduced
1882: New regulation for saddlery equipment ---> single ring scabbards
1882: Cavalry model 82 issued to all cavalry regiments
1883: 1822 patterns transformed to straightened patterns
1886: End of 1882-83 production
3 for the price of 1!! (from top to bottom: 1883-1882-1880)
1880 trial pattern swords
9 years after the Franco-Prussian war the idea to continue standardization of weapons continued that year at Chatellereault. The debate on cut vs thrusts was still undergoing and special prototype/trial patterns were thus created who were more or less ‘’frankenstein’’ swords made up of parts of already existing models but
The main focus of change was with the blades: the trial model for Light Cav was given a more curved blade which was single fuller (without the little gutter); the Reserve cavalry (cuirassiers) model had 2 prototypes: one with a M1854 3 branch hilt + a straight single fuller blade and another one which had a 2 branch hilt (also for dragoons).
These are some of the most obscure and rare French swords to be encountered. They are the trial series which were made in the early years of the 1880's in response to years of studies and cut vs thrust theoretical debates and the French Army wanting to end the quest for the ultimate, universal sword model intended for both Light and Heavy cavalry units.
These trial patterns incorporated elements of previous models that were mashed together for economical and practical purposes, the parts were hilts and pommels of the LC1822 & HC1854 models respectively.
They were never officially issued because they served as experimental patterns made in limited quantity and intended to be tested by units; therefore seen as transition specimen between the 1854, 1822 and 1882 swords.
The two top swords are the same trial pattern but one is for the Cavalerie de Reserve (cuirassiers) and the other for Dragoons.
As you can note they are made of parts of the 1822 LC and 1854 HC models but the blades are made straight and with one simple fuller.
Both are dated 1881 and as such are the predecessor patterns that allowed the creation of the 1882 sword series (which was made with a different pommel cap).
The most interesting one of the bunch is the 1880 Light cav trooper sword trial version.
It borrows the hilt of the 1822 LC trooper sword but the pommel cap is from the 1854 HC sword, the novelty resides in the blade which stays curved but has no back fuller (Montmorency style) and the tip is spear pointed.
Those familiar with the 1890 Chilean sword will recognize the same type of blade which had been recycled for that export model.
Markings (they are the same on all 3 because they were made at the same time)
Blades and hilts:
R circle = Director J.P.J. Reallon (1875-1883)
B circle = 2nd class controller J.M. Brenier (1874-1889)
S with star = controller 1st class F.L. Sprenger (1879-1885)
Exclusively on hilts:
G lozenge with star = 2nd class controller J. Girolt (1875-1883)
1880 Light cav
Rack no.482 on hilt and scabbard
Total: 106cm
Sword: 103cm
Blade: 87cm
1881 Dragoon
Rack no.1149 on hilt and scabbard
Total: 110cm
Sword: 108cm
Blade: 92.5cm
1881 Cav Reserve
Rack no.1355 on hilt and scabbard
Total: 113cm
Sword: 112cm
Blade: 95cm
After discussion and debates it was finally the straight, single fuller blade with lenticular tip and that seemed to have convinced everyone and was finally adopted for all cavalry units.
The resulting new model sword was thus composed of a straight single fuller blade mounted on a retooled 1822 Light Cav hilt. Gone were the curved and double fuller blades and the 3 branch hilts.
The new blade that convinced everyone, charming lad it must have been!
1882 Cavalry sword
Adopted on August 22 1882, the winning new model sword started to be issued to all cavalry regiments, the only distinction being the length of the blade:
cuirassiers received a 95cm long blade
dragoon had a 92.5cm blade
light cavalry regiments had a 87cm long blade
The hilt was pretty much the same as the Light cav model except the meeting part of the 2 branches was simplified along with the junction point of the branch and pommel which was widened; the blade had a standard width of 30mm at the ricasso, single fullered on both sides and spear pointed. To keep up with the new suspension system of 1882 that fastened swords to the saddle, the scabbard was made with only one ring.
Last but not least, from now on all swords and scabbards were directly marked with matching serial numbers by the manufacturer, this was formerly done before by the regimental armourers who marked or erased them during their postings.
Back of the blade reads : Mfture d'armes de Chatt Janvier 1883 - Cav rie LegerMle 1882
comparison of hilt form of Mle1882 vs M1822/83
View of the back of hilt, compared with the 1883 found below, it is made much more coarse (especially the junction part of the branches)
1822-1883 Transformed Light Cavalry Sword
*By the time I was completing this Afoo had already posted his article, which I recommend for further info*
In order to finish standardization and by request of some Light cavalry units, it was ordered on 29 august 1883 to straight the blades and scabbards of 1822 LC models still in service. The complexity of this operation meant it could only be done at the Chatellereault facilities because they were the only ones equipped to do it. The blades were not only straightened, they were also cut down from 92cm to 87cm in order to follow their 1882 counterparts.
Because it was made using an old 1822 blade, these 1883 models are easily recognized by their Montmorency blade, the back of which is marked Mfture de Chat Cavl legere 1822 Tfé 1883 (transformed 1883).
Transform and (maybe not) Roll out!!
View of the back
Blade stamps
The 1822 straightened blade
Conclusion
The whole experience did not prove to be successful: the new model swords 1882 did not last much and failed to satisfy Heavy and Light cavalry regiments that pointed out the 2 branch hilts did not offer good protection and that the single fuller blade was too fragile, for these reasons the 1882 sword was never really used by these units. A sort of compromise was achieved when, now being out of production, the hilts of older models were replaced by the 1882.
This gave way to a new sword hybrid that had 1854 blades with 1882 hilts.
The 1822/83 fared no better, after a while it was observed that some of the blade got either back to their natural curve and sometimes twisted and got stuck inside the straight scabbards. During the process about only 3000 of these transformed sword were made before the project was cancelled.
So about 4 years later on November 10 1886, production of the 1882 and 83 models halted and was abandoned. The old curved 1822 LC was back in the game and reequipped to the light cavalry units and that was until another candidate showed up in 1897.
Specs
Weight
1881 Cav Res: 2.05lbs / 1057gr
1882: 2.07lbs / 1122gr
1883: 2.05lbs / 1057gr
POB
1881: 3.5'' / 9cm
1882: 3.25'' / 8.5cm
1883: 4.5'' / 11cm
