|
|
Post by cearball on Jan 17, 2018 18:47:04 GMT
This isn't my own review obviously but thought it belonged here due to important info regarding length of sword tang & POTENTIAL weaknesses. I am sure I have seen this sword reviewed here with people wondering about integrity due to hilt construction. skallagrim panabas |
|
|
|
Post by Jordan Williams on Jan 17, 2018 19:59:18 GMT
Well that's sad to see. Although while I agree with him that the tang is short I disagree with his idea of needing two tangs. One would have done fine if made correctly, and iirc original filipino weapons were fitted in with resin, but I may be wrong on that part. I know I've seen some old kris' where the grip slid right off.
|
|
|
|
Post by MOK on Jan 17, 2018 21:11:19 GMT
It's a pity, I've been wanting another TFW blade (being very fond of my #5 Moro Kris) and this one's been on my short list for a while...
I think the main flaw with this design is pairing the short tang with a socket inlaid into the grip and ending almost at the same point. In theory the socket would reinforce the end of the grip, just like the metal bands on the historical weapons shown, but you'll note that those bands are all on top of the wood, whereas this is cut flush with the rest of the grip, creating several new stress points and making the wood thinner right around where it needs to be stronger. Also, having the end of the socket be so near the end of the tang actually further concentrates the stress in that area.
You could fix all this by placing the socket and rattan wrap on top of the grip instead of flush with it, making the tang about twice as long and fitting the grip more closely to it - sure, resin/epoxy is a traditional and perfectly good way to fix a blade to a hilt, as such, but it's still better if you don't need to fill quite such a cavernous space with the resin/epoxy alone (historically, IIRC, horse hair or similar fibers were often used with this kind of construction all over Eurasia, either mixed into the resin or wrapped around the tang) and keeping the wood thicker in that area should help a great deal with its durability.
|
|
|
|
Post by Timo Nieminen on Jan 17, 2018 21:58:44 GMT
The lesson: if you use this type of hilt construction, use good quality wood. There's a lot of diversity in panabas hilt construction (as one might expect, given the diversity in size, weight, blade styles, etc.). One common style is a wide tang in an open slot, with a couple of iron rings to keep the tang in place, like this: swordsantiqueweapons.com/s490_full.htmlAn advantage of this is that movement of the tang in the slot doesn't stress the wood, since the slot is open. The disadvantage is that there is less wood. Sometimes one iron ring and rattan wrap. Sometimes no ring, just rattan wrap. Other styles include a short stick tang and a long ferrule, maybe twice the length of the (short) tang. One doesn't see bare panabas blades often, so I don't know how long the tang on a typical stick-tang panabas usually is; my estimate of twice as long is based on other Philippine stick-tang weapons. Here is one with a moderately long ferrule: www.oriental-arms.com/item.php?id=5724(but I've seen longer). Short ferrules are out there, with and without rattan wrap and further reinforcing rings. Note that more reinforcing rings wouldn't have stopped Skallagrim's break - they'll stop the wood from splitting along the grain. www.oriental-arms.com/item.php?id=5707I wonder if having the blade sharpened on the wrong side increases the stress on the hilt? |
|
|
|
Post by cearball on Jan 18, 2018 12:01:09 GMT
it is worrying.
I don't know how popular the sword is so maybe others have had much better experiences
|
|
LeMal
Member
Posts: 1,183
|
Post by LeMal on Jan 18, 2018 16:45:06 GMT
Hmmm. I wonder if this might cause the current Panabas to go for a deeply discounted sale price. If so, I'm definitely picking one up--this is a perfect example of an easy "fix" by using the clevis joint method I described in a recent thread on tang extension methods. (I can even seeing carefully splitting the nice-looking existing handle and keeping it as the outer scales.)
If it goes deeply on sale I'm definitely picking one up.
|
|
|
|
Post by Jordan Williams on Jan 18, 2018 18:44:16 GMT
Hmmm. I wonder if this might cause the current Panabas to go for a deeply discounted sale price. If so, I'm definitely picking one up--this is a perfect example of an easy "fix" by using the clevis joint method I described in a recent thread on tang extension methods. (I can even seeing carefully splitting the nice-looking existing handle and keeping it as the outer scales.) If it goes deeply on sale I'm definitely picking one up. Yeah, same. I had the same idea of splitting the handle but my plan was to fit it into a kyu gunto hilt if I could get one. |
|
|
|
Post by elbrittania39 on Jan 18, 2018 20:19:52 GMT
Alternative use for the Panabas blade: glaive head. You could make a wicked polearm from that thing.
|
|
|
|
Post by howler on Jan 18, 2018 22:05:12 GMT
Hmmm. I wonder if this might cause the current Panabas to go for a deeply discounted sale price. If so, I'm definitely picking one up--this is a perfect example of an easy "fix" by using the clevis joint method I described in a recent thread on tang extension methods. (I can even seeing carefully splitting the nice-looking existing handle and keeping it as the outer scales.) If it goes deeply on sale I'm definitely picking one up. Great idea, depending on discount price, of course. |
|
|
|
Post by howler on Jan 18, 2018 22:08:36 GMT
The lesson: if you use this type of hilt construction, use good quality wood. There's a lot of diversity in panabas hilt construction (as one might expect, given the diversity in size, weight, blade styles, etc.). One common style is a wide tang in an open slot, with a couple of iron rings to keep the tang in place, like this: swordsantiqueweapons.com/s490_full.htmlAn advantage of this is that movement of the tang in the slot doesn't stress the wood, since the slot is open. The disadvantage is that there is less wood. Sometimes one iron ring and rattan wrap. Sometimes no ring, just rattan wrap. Other styles include a short stick tang and a long ferrule, maybe twice the length of the (short) tang. One doesn't see bare panabas blades often, so I don't know how long the tang on a typical stick-tang panabas usually is; my estimate of twice as long is based on other Philippine stick-tang weapons. Here is one with a moderately long ferrule: www.oriental-arms.com/item.php?id=5724(but I've seen longer). Short ferrules are out there, with and without rattan wrap and further reinforcing rings. Note that more reinforcing rings wouldn't have stopped Skallagrim's break - they'll stop the wood from splitting along the grain. www.oriental-arms.com/item.php?id=5707I wonder if having the blade sharpened on the wrong side increases the stress on the hilt? Man, that thing was a "No Tail" tang, and just ridiculously small for a two handed styled chopper with its long handle. |
|
|
|
Post by bebut on Jan 19, 2018 0:18:33 GMT
Hmmm. I wonder if this might cause the current Panabas to go for a deeply discounted sale price. If so, I'm definitely picking one up--this is a perfect example of an easy "fix" by using the clevis joint method I described in a recent thread on tang extension methods. (I can even seeing carefully splitting the nice-looking existing handle and keeping it as the outer scales.) If it goes deeply on sale I'm definitely picking one up. Great idea, depending on discount price, of course. With a little bad luck, the lawyers will make more on this one than the mfd. " in combat this particular sword can cut anything it comes in contact with right in half" Was thinking of a tfw for my collection, but think I'll wait a few years for the reviews to roll in. |
|
|
|
Post by pellius on Jan 19, 2018 1:52:24 GMT
I'll just throw this out there for what it's worth. I have 3 TFW swords. All are one handers. One of them is the Itak Tagalog. I got it third-hand to serve as a working tool. I have put it to regular heavy use/abuse, and it has held up extremely well. My guess is that its hilt construction is similar to the reviewed panabas. On the one hand configuration, it has remained rock solid and reliable. I would still strongly recommend TFW one handers. As for two hand TFW swords, I'm pretty disappointed by this revelation. Second Edit Not sure what more could really be asked of a company as far as current events awareness and an initial response. However, I hope that isn't TFW's entire response. www.traditionalfilipinoweapons.com/shop/panabas-2/ |
|
|
|
Post by howler on Jan 19, 2018 21:46:56 GMT
Great idea, depending on discount price, of course. With a little bad luck, the lawyers will make more on this one than the mfd. " in combat this particular sword can cut anything it comes in contact with right in half" Was thinking of a tfw for my collection, but think I'll wait a few years for the reviews to roll in. I was strongly gazing at the Kris #5. I think your right on with the one handed vs. two handed commentary, as the various stresses placed on that Panabas are light years beyond what the tang juncture was designed to address. |
|
|
|
Post by howler on Jan 19, 2018 21:56:35 GMT
I'll just throw this out there for what it's worth. I have 3 TFW swords. All are one handers. One of them is the Itak Tagalog. I got it third-hand to serve as a working tool. I have put it to regular heavy use/abuse, and it has held up extremely well. My guess is that its hilt construction is similar to the reviewed panabas. On the one hand configuration, it has remained rock solid and reliable. I would still strongly recommend TFW one handers. As for two hand TFW swords, I'm pretty disappointed by this revelation. Edit My hat is off to Ron. Not sure what more can really be asked of a company as far as current events awareness and an initial response. I hope TFW gets this all ironed out. www.traditionalfilipinoweapons.com/shop/panabas-2/I was always attracted to this thing, and the admission of an obvious flaw followed by major (near 50%) price reduction was smart and sensible. This would (for me) still be a project sword, but I must confess to still being interested. Btw, I wonder if KOA will take a hit in (potentially) having to reduce prices on their stock? |
|
|
|
Post by bebut on Jan 20, 2018 3:42:38 GMT
So who admitted a major flaw? Same sales hype, lower price!
|
|
|
|
Post by pellius on Jan 20, 2018 6:08:52 GMT
|
|
|
|
Post by Jordan Williams on Jan 20, 2018 7:00:42 GMT
So who admitted a major flaw? Same sales hype, lower price! I may be misreading but it kinda seems like you hate TFW lol. Also, I'm imagining this blade in a Morrocan nimcha hilt. I bet it'd turn out nicely... |
|
Scott
Member
Posts: 1,680
|
Post by Scott on Jan 20, 2018 7:14:57 GMT
So who admitted a major flaw? Same sales hype, lower price! No one? They admitted a flaw was found in one, just one, of their panabas, and reduced the price based on that one example. They have not said there's a problem with all of them. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2018 13:44:41 GMT
oh boy knowingly selling with a flaw instead of recalling?
Extra 10% off all cars with Takata Airbags!
|
|
|
|
Post by MOK on Jan 20, 2018 18:41:39 GMT
oh boy knowingly selling with a flaw instead of recalling? Extra 10% off all cars with Takata Airbags! It's 45% off, actually. Which, you know, would be a pretty darn great bargain! Buy the car (or the sword) and swap out the airbags (or the hilt) and you'll still save a small fortune.  |
|
