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Post by antoine99 on Dec 27, 2017 23:13:20 GMT
Hey everyone! I was watching some videos about DIY armor just for fun, this guy made some really great looking armor from an aluminum street sign (1/8" thick), and it was extremely effective, lying flat on the ground it stopped a spear plunging into it from above. So being sad that I'm completely unhandy unlike the guy in the video, I was just thinking for fun what else could be used to make "armor". So I immediately thought of those long lengths of (HEAVY) steel chains on those rolls they have at home improvement stores. For example, something like this: www.homedepot.com/p/Everbilt-2-x-1-ft-Steel-Straight-Link-Chain-806446/204630488Now I know those links are huge and you would need to cross them over each other to close the gaps otherwise it would be pointless, and it would probably end up being extremely heavy, but otherwise, how do you think that would work against swords, axes, knives, etc.? They have all kinds of different sizes so I don't mean exactly like in the link, the links could be smaller, but those, at least to my inexperienced eyes, seem extremely tough, and welded (which is good for traditional chainmail). This is probably totally impractical to wear but I thought it would be a fun project just like as a proof of concept, or when I'm bored. And for my second question, I found this website that sells really nice looking functional chainmail shirts and vests, but they don't really give a ton of information about it; www.ringmesh.com/ChainMail_Shirts_and_Vests_s/25.htmAll it tells you is: Features 100% Stainless Steel Incredibly Lightweight 100% Welded Rings Incredibly Durable Easy to Maintain Unique in Look and Feel It doesn't tell you the gauge, size of the rings, etc. I really want to buy the short sleeve version and wear it under a long sleeve shirt, it looks really nice, maybe not historical but I really like it, not to mention protective. If I DID wear it under a shirt daily, do I have to worry about links coming apart from sitting in a car, walking, using a belt, etc.? I plan on wearing this with a tucked in shirt if I do. I'm just wondering about the protection factor, as in how well would this protect you against melee threats (knives, etc.) on the street etc. It DOES say that it's welded so that's good, but still, I think they should give a bit more information. Thanks everyone!
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Post by Jordan Williams on Dec 27, 2017 23:28:42 GMT
I wouldn't go with the ace hardware maille plan. I don't think the ovals would work very well to make chainmaille out of. I personally don't know how much i would trust small welds for holding up against prolonged attack, however for a once in a thousand chance of being stabbed it could work I suppose. Have you seen this site? It advertises riveted maille for around the same price bracket. allbeststuff.com/Chain-Mail-Armour/16-Gauge-9-mm-Full-Round-Riveted-Chain-Maille-Hauberk-Chest-40
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Post by antoine99 on Dec 27, 2017 23:36:51 GMT
I wouldn't go with the ace hardware maille plan. I don't think the ovals would work very well to make chainmaille out of. I personally don't know how much i would trust small welds for holding up against prolonged attack, however for a once in a thousand chance of being stabbed it could work I suppose. Have you seen this site? It advertises riveted maille for around the same price bracket. allbeststuff.com/Chain-Mail-Armour/16-Gauge-9-mm-Full-Round-Riveted-Chain-Maille-Hauberk-Chest-40Oh that does look nice, my problem is that because I want to wear this under a regular shirt, and tucked in, I have a really hard time finding something like that, which is just like a shirt, that doesn't go below the waist, so I have to be careful of the specs. I think the term hauberk can refer to a number of lengths, including below the waist, so it gets pretty confusing, is that one just waist length or? EDIT: Also yes I'm not expecting that homemade armor to stand up to a mock battle or anything like that, just normal street threats. Like a ballista Do those homemade steel links look strong enough though? Assuming of course you can overlap enough of them so a thrust can't slip through. If I do try it, I'd just buy different lengths of chain and basically drape myself with them, I wouldn't take individual links apart.
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Ifrit
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Post by Ifrit on Dec 27, 2017 23:43:18 GMT
Why not make Lamellar armour? It looks easy enough for anyone to do. I, myself, am planning on slowly building up pieces of armour I make with each months purchase of Lamellar plates There is a lot more to chain mail than you would think if you want it to be effective. Butted mail is incredibly weak, and riveted mail would be a ton of work
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Post by antoine99 on Dec 27, 2017 23:45:00 GMT
Why not make Lamellar armour? It looks easy enough for anyone to do. I, myself, am planning on slowly building up pieces of armour I make with each months purchase of Lamellar plates That actually looks really nice, I don't know if I could wear that under clothing but I'll look into that, thanks. I guess it's super modular so maybe I could make it fit
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Ifrit
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Post by Ifrit on Dec 27, 2017 23:48:07 GMT
Why not make Lamellar armour? It looks easy enough for anyone to do. I, myself, am planning on slowly building up pieces of armour I make with each months purchase of Lamellar plates That actually looks really nice, I don't know if I could wear that under clothing but I'll look into that, thanks. I guess it's super modular so maybe I could make it fit One thing you can do is make smaller sections, similar to ballistic plates. It seems easy enough to customize what size you would like to use. Then you could attach it to a vest of sorts
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Ifrit
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Post by Ifrit on Dec 27, 2017 23:50:05 GMT
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Ifrit
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Post by Ifrit on Dec 28, 2017 0:00:13 GMT
Something like this could work for you
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Post by Jordan Williams on Dec 28, 2017 0:15:03 GMT
I wouldn't go with the ace hardware maille plan. I don't think the ovals would work very well to make chainmaille out of. I personally don't know how much i would trust small welds for holding up against prolonged attack, however for a once in a thousand chance of being stabbed it could work I suppose. Have you seen this site? It advertises riveted maille for around the same price bracket. allbeststuff.com/Chain-Mail-Armour/16-Gauge-9-mm-Full-Round-Riveted-Chain-Maille-Hauberk-Chest-40Oh that does look nice, my problem is that because I want to wear this under a regular shirt, and tucked in, I have a really hard time finding something like that, which is just like a shirt, that doesn't go below the waist, so I have to be careful of the specs. I think the term hauberk can refer to a number of lengths, including below the waist, so it gets pretty confusing, is that one just waist length or? EDIT: Also yes I'm not expecting that homemade armor to stand up to a mock battle or anything like that, just normal street threats. Like a ballista Do those homemade steel links look strong enough though? Assuming of course you can overlap enough of them so a thrust can't slip through. If I do try it, I'd just buy different lengths of chain and basically drape myself with them, I wouldn't take individual links apart. Whatever excess length is in the maille can be cut off to length. If by homemade you mean the ace hardware chain, they'd certainly be strong enough but way too heavy and much too roomy for a point to get in.
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Ifrit
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Post by Ifrit on Dec 28, 2017 0:40:54 GMT
I remember when I used to wanna make hardware store armor. Tried making lamellar from washers lol.
But eventually I just saved for a knife resistant vest. It's light. Concealable. Effective. Not to mention it looks a lot better than hardware store armor
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Post by antoine99 on Dec 28, 2017 1:41:27 GMT
What do you suggest I use for the individual pieces if I were to attempt that lamellar armor? By that I mean metal pieces that can be bought at, for example, a hardware store. Searching "DIY Lamellar Armor" I came up with simple mending braces (first time I've ever heard of those, lol). Those look alright.
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Ifrit
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Post by Ifrit on Dec 28, 2017 1:49:06 GMT
Ebay has some Lamellar plates if you need to get some. I heard of many using paracord to attach them together, but I would rather opt for leather lacing. Perhaps another member can better state the pros and cons of each
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Post by Timo Nieminen on Dec 28, 2017 2:29:56 GMT
Either buy plates made for armour, or DIY (buy sheet steel, cut and clean up edges, punch/drill and clean up edges). You might find something OK from a hardware store, but look at commercially available lamellae first. This will give you a good idea of what to look for at the hardware store and how cheap it has to be to be worthwhile. For steel/iron, 0.8mm to 1mm thick is good for historical, but will dent in re-enactment fighting. For modern armour, you can go thinner than that (if you want to stop arrows from 100lb bows, you want that thickness). Note that lamellar typically has 100% overlap left-to-right, i.e., a single row presents a double thickness everywhere. Up-down overlap can be (and often is) 100% as well, so incoming attacks need to defeat 4 thicknesses. That's why the historical stuff is thin - 4 layers of thin steel/iron works well enough, and is already heavier than you want it to be. Some commercial lamellae: www.warlordsports.com/metal-armor-platesplasticlamellar.worldsecuresystems.com/Platessteel-mastery.com/lamellar-plates-100-plates-in-set.html
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Post by antoine99 on Dec 28, 2017 2:53:36 GMT
Either buy plates made for armour, or DIY (buy sheet steel, cut and clean up edges, punch/drill and clean up edges). You might find something OK from a hardware store, but look at commercially available lamellae first. This will give you a good idea of what to look for at the hardware store and how cheap it has to be to be worthwhile. For steel/iron, 0.8mm to 1mm thick is good for historical, but will dent in re-enactment fighting. For modern armour, you can go thinner than that (if you want to stop arrows from 100lb bows, you want that thickness). Note that lamellar typically has 100% overlap left-to-right, i.e., a single row presents a double thickness everywhere. Up-down overlap can be (and often is) 100% as well, so incoming attacks need to defeat 4 thicknesses. That's why the historical stuff is thin - 4 layers of thin steel/iron works well enough, and is already heavier than you want it to be. Some commercial lamellae: www.warlordsports.com/metal-armor-platesplasticlamellar.worldsecuresystems.com/Platessteel-mastery.com/lamellar-plates-100-plates-in-set.htmlOk thanks! Yeah I definitely don't plan on reenacting anything, just for a combination of fun project and actually effective defense against street melee weapons as an added bonus. Can I ask what you think about that shirt I linked? These: www.ringmesh.com/ChainMail_Shirts_and_Vests_s/25.htmSpecifically either the vest or the short sleeve version, but they are the same thing, just the arms obviously. I can't see how long the vest is, I'd rather buy something that I don't have to shorten myself, and on closer inspection it looks like the short sleeve shirt actually does go below the waist. Would it be possible to wear that long version tucked into jeans with a belt, under a shirt, or would it bunch up a lot and be extremely uncomfortable? I've never owned any maille or armor so this will be my first experience with it.
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pgandy
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Post by pgandy on Dec 28, 2017 3:29:41 GMT
I played with ringmesh years back. At that time they were offering two size of rings. Now what they offer is only the larger ring size of the two. I would prefer the smaller size if I had my rathers. It was more expensive of the two. I never tried any of their offerings, only ordered a sample size of each. Both were extremely comfortable equalling if not exceeding regular clothing and should be comfortable under a shirt. I lost interest in it when I tested its strength using my Condor Engineer Bolo. I must admit that with that knife and the power that I put into the cut had more energy than what you’d find in the street with a man slicing with a folder. Skallagrim had a video that I saw just this week about ordinary layered clothing blocking cuts from folders. I spent maybe ½ hour looking for it without success. The hauberk that Jordan referenced has an attractive price, almost too good to be true. I’ve made mail armour, but would not like wearing it around under my street shirt. Ringmesh with one cut from Condor's Engineer Bolo
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Post by Timo Nieminen on Dec 28, 2017 3:31:13 GMT
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Post by antoine99 on Dec 28, 2017 4:12:58 GMT
Wow, alright thanks guys, lots of info here to take in!
I guess the ringmesh shirts are looking like the best bet for my needs then. I want to try making my own armor for a fun, easy DIY project first though. Even if it turns out ok (by some miracle) I will probably get that shirt in the near future based on your thoughts.
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Post by legacyofthesword on Dec 28, 2017 6:30:51 GMT
I've been working on a chainmail shirt for years now (okay, working perhaps isn't the best word - I haven't touched it in months). I'm making it out of wire, which I twist around a dowel and then cut each ring off. Then I link the rings up and then bend the ends of each ring together; this is butted construction, but I'd confidently wear it as protection against knives. Swords or the like, I wouldn't trust it too far... I'm sure it would handle one or two hits, but it'd quickly fall apart.
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Scott
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Post by Scott on Dec 28, 2017 7:43:27 GMT
You could try making leather lamellar. Get a hide of leather, cut it in to lamellae with a pair of scissors, soak the pieces in melted beeswax, then when they've dried out and hardened lace them together. Light weight and tough.
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pgandy
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Post by pgandy on Dec 28, 2017 23:17:52 GMT
I found Skallagrim’s video. I found two more while looking for this pertaining to cut resistant sleeves that he bought on line. One was a miserable failure and the showed promise. However, the price to buy enough sleeves to make a questionable garment to cover your body is getting up there.
From what I’ve seen and can tell from your description of wants I think ringmail is your best bet. Unfortunately they have discontinued the other mail. It’s more expensive, heavier, and probably hotter, but unquestionably give better protection. As is you can combine the ringmail with other clothing [oversize] as above to enhance protection.
I also included a video of my hauberk for those thinking of making their own mail. It was too small on receiving so I enlarged it using the same rings they used in the hauberk. I had a supply left over from making a coif and a mantel. It is made of high tensile steel rather than mild steel which is more common. It’s butted and if I was into reacting and used it in mock combat on a regular basis I would upgrade to riveted mail. However this serves my purpose, which is to get a feeling of what mail is. I seriously doubt if I’ll use it in combat, but if I do it will in all likelihood be a onetime affair and I seriously believe that it will get me through. After that I will repair it if needed.
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