Ifrit
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Post by Ifrit on Dec 27, 2017 1:16:28 GMT
So I am going to be ordering some lameller plates to make myself a pauldron and bracers. Have bracers ever been made in Lameller form? I am just wondering if thats a stupid idea and I should just make two pauldrons
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Ifrit
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More edgy than a double edge sword
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Post by Ifrit on Dec 27, 2017 1:28:23 GMT
Also, another question, if one were to only have one pauldron, which side is it most useful on?
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Post by Timo Nieminen on Dec 27, 2017 1:53:22 GMT
I can't think of any historical examples of lamellar bracers/vambraces. Lamellar body armour is typically sleeveless or has pauldrons that cover just the shoulder or come down to the elbow. Forearm armour is typically separate from the body armour, and I know of none that is lamellar. Japanese forearms are usually part of sleeves covering the upper arm, forearm, and back of hand, and can be mail, mail-and-plate, splints along the forearm, large plates tied to the sleeve, or hinged plates enclosing the forearm. Plate vambraces (i.e., bazubands) were common with lamellar in West and Central Asia. Some Sassanid art appears to show mail forearms (and legs) with lamellar (which comes down to the elbows). You should be able to make working bracers with lamellar plates, but I don't think there's any benefit from lamellar contruction for bracers. I'd be tempted to attach them to a cloth or leather sleeve (either on the inside, so brigandine) or outside (scale). Depending on the size of the lamellae, it might be good to curve them or cut them into smaller pieces. A lamellar armour with integral forearm armour (scale on leather): www.nms.ac.uk/explore-our-collections/collection-search-results/?item_id=318161As for which side to wear a single pauldron: if you will have a shield, the unshielded shoulder, and if no shield, the shoulder that will usually be forward in your stance.
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Ifrit
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Post by Ifrit on Dec 27, 2017 2:02:08 GMT
Thanks Timo. You always have some great input. I have some leather jacket sleeves I was gonna attach them to. I am not gonna go for full coverage, but instead will opt for a plate like structure on the tops of the forearm. Bending them would be a good idea though.
And thanks for the suggestion on which side to wear a pauldron. I am not sure which I will go with, but I guess it depends on what sword I consider to be my "main"
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Post by Faldarin on Dec 27, 2017 2:06:49 GMT
I imagine it would have probably been possible to do lamellar bracers. Trying to keep them from shifting or 'opening' would be difficult since gravity would be working on them from different directions. That's probably just me though.
As for the single pauldron? Depending what weapon you're using, it would probably be best on y our dominant hand's shoulder, since that is going to be the more forward of the two more often. As long as it doesn't block your view, at least.
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Ifrit
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Post by Ifrit on Dec 27, 2017 2:37:02 GMT
I am hoping that if the are attached well enough to the leather sleeves, they won't move too often. But I will keep you posted on this
And I officially feel convinced to use it on the dominant hand shoulder now. Thanks
Another question, would making the pauldron looser make it more flexible so that it could drape over my shoulder? Would this increase the risk of leaving the strings open to be cut?
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Ifrit
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Post by Ifrit on Dec 27, 2017 2:54:15 GMT
I am also considering just making a Lamellar Gladiator Sleeve. That might be cool
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Scott
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Post by Scott on Dec 27, 2017 7:18:28 GMT
I would put a single pauldron on the shoulder most likely to be hit. Probably the left shoulder, assuming any opponent is more likely to be right handed. What type of lamellar plates are you planning to get? Steel?
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Ifrit
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Post by Ifrit on Dec 27, 2017 7:24:22 GMT
I would put a single pauldron on the shoulder most likely to be hit. Probably the left shoulder, assuming any opponent is more likely to be right handed. What type of lamellar plates are you planning to get? Steel? I actually had that same thought too, that a right handed opponent might be more likely to hit my left. And yea. Blackened steel
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Ifrit
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Post by Ifrit on Dec 28, 2017 0:52:39 GMT
What is most useful? A gladiator style single arm armor, two pauldrons, or a pauldron and two bracers?
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Post by Timo Nieminen on Dec 28, 2017 1:37:12 GMT
"Most useful" depends on the threat, and your weapon, and the rest of your armour. What are modern threats? Mostly gun, knife, stick. Finger/hand protection from a stick might be useful, but the rest of the arms doesn't need anything. Don't bother with trying for bulletproof arm armour. That leaves knives. A full light mail sleeve with full glove for the off-hand (including palm protection): www.hand-safe.com/Stainless-steel-arm-sleeve-with-full-hand-glove-and-Y-adjustable-Band-pd6538014.htmlcould be good. Rigid hand/finger protection could be good for the main hand, or mail for the back of the hand and outside of the fingers (leaving the palm open). Similar in a cut-resistant fabric might be OK. Lightweight is important, since speed matters. Forearm armour slows you more than shoulder and upper arm armour, since you need to move any weight on your forearms further and faster. Forearms are closer to the opponent, and can be tempting targets for a knife or shortsword (but upper arm is better if you can reach). Hands are delicate, but armour can reduce dexterity as well as slowing you down through weight. Palm armour is good for your off-hand specifically for grabbing blades, as long as it is light and flexible enough. Hand protection can also be part of the weapon, e.g., basket hilts or enough reach to stay out of trouble. For pre-modern threats, body and head are the most important things to armour, because arrows and spears (and sling stones, thrown rocks, etc.) can ruin your day. Upper arm/shoulder armour is important against spears and arrows, and possibly for stopping downward blows deflected by your helmet. For fighting with knives/swords at extreme range (as one sees in duelling, especially formal duels to first blood (but armour might be prohibited by the rules)), forearm and hand protection is good. There will be a compromise between weight, protection, and dexterity - anywhere from steel gauntlets through to no armour have been chosen in the past.
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Ifrit
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Post by Ifrit on Dec 28, 2017 1:46:40 GMT
It would mostly be intended for swords, spears and such. I already have a vest with a steel plate insert (along with the rest of it having a flexible alloy). I also intend to invest in a steel WW2 helmet.
To be totally honest, I can't see myself ever really needing the armour, but I suppose decent pauldrons might be useful against bats and machetes. I also have cut resistant steel thread lined forearm bands to wear under the lamellar. But you make an excellent point about the weight though. I never even considered it till you mentioned it.
Thanks a ton for the suggestions. Pauldrons it is. Maybe shin armour if I have enough left over this time around
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Post by Timo Nieminen on Dec 28, 2017 2:35:57 GMT
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Post by Svadilfari on Dec 29, 2017 19:52:10 GMT
Lamellar armour was *always* in danger of having it's connecting cords cut. If you are making your own - here's one tip - make *sure* ALL the holes in each plate are nice and smooth. It only takes one rough edge to start quickly chewing through the lacing, as I found out ...:(
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Ifrit
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Post by Ifrit on Dec 30, 2017 3:19:01 GMT
Thanks for the tip. What kind of lacing works best? I've seen people use paracord and it seems like it wouldn't cut as easy as leather
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Scott
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Post by Scott on Dec 30, 2017 3:29:00 GMT
Something that won't stretch. You'll need to redo the lacing at some point no matter what but why create more maintenance than you need to?
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Ifrit
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Post by Ifrit on Dec 30, 2017 4:20:18 GMT
Paracord stretches? I never knew that. Whats better?
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Scott
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Post by Scott on Dec 30, 2017 5:04:51 GMT
Does it? I was making more of a general recommendation.
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Ifrit
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Post by Ifrit on Dec 30, 2017 7:12:09 GMT
I'm not sure. I heard it does by one obscure source but never seen it proven
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pgandy
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Post by pgandy on Dec 30, 2017 14:14:14 GMT
I believe not. I’ve jumped with the stuff and used it to secure whatever and never remember stretching. Now I must say that there is a lot, more than real 550 cord, out there that is fake or wouldn’t pass the military tests and I wouldn’t trust. But the real stuff... In all fairness I should say that I have never used it to suspend heavy objects for an extended time such weeks or more. I’ve jumped with 550 cord and used it for such things as to tie a poncho and limbs together, and some gear on my webbing although more tape in that case than cord.
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